Matrix Games Forums

Forums  Register  Login  Photo Gallery  Member List  Search  Calendars  FAQ 

My Profile  Inbox  Address Book  My Subscription  My Forums  Log Out

Road or Improved road?

 
View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
Users viewing this topic: none
  Printable Version
All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> The Operational Art of War IV >> Road or Improved road? Page: [1]
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
Road or Improved road? - 2/26/2019 5:31:43 AM   
NikolaiEzhov


Posts: 738
Joined: 7/23/2014
Status: offline
What is the difference between a "road" and an "improved road" reflects in the real world?
Shall all the hardened road (concrete/asphalt) be classified as "improved road"?

_____________________________

Proletariat of the world, unite!
Post #: 1
RE: Road or Improved road? - 2/26/2019 7:10:10 AM   
cathar1244

 

Posts: 1003
Joined: 9/5/2009
Status: offline
Nikolai, great question. Having designed scenarios on occasion for various games, I have had the same question as you. I think there are two aspects worth mentioning.

The first, and more important, are how the road types affect game play. IMO, this issue is tied to geography (what area does the map depict) and the historical era depicted by the scenario. Consider West Germany in the 1980s. Every important road was hardened. Even county (Kreis) roads were hardened, if narrower than federal roads. The Autobahnen are in a class by themselves.

So perhaps some TOAW considerations here are things like supply flow, and the road's ability to bear heavy military traffic round-the-clock. Here are some notions:

Road Type              Value as supply route                Durability

Autobahn               Very Good                            Very Good
Federal Road           Good                                 Good
Kreis Road             Poor                                 Poor


"Dirt" roads in TOAW have increased movement costs in conditions of mud. Big scenario design aspect there. In Alsace 1944-45, many of the "improved" roads were narrow and not very durable for military traffic. They often "broke" under the strain of U.S. military operations, and the U.S. Army always had bunches of engineer battalions in the rear keeping roads repaired and also improving them. So, although they were technically "improved" roads, should a designer depict them as "dirt" roads in TOAW? What about the Kreis roads in Germany of the 1980s?

IMO, it boils down to which supply and movement effects a designer wants for a scenario. Consider things like the new setting for movement costs on improved roads -- again, IMO, that is something for Autobahns and the like ... but if one wants to model that, does that force every other road to be a "dirt" road that is less capable just because of some heavy rain?

The second aspect is cosmetic. The dirt-surface, "squiggly" look of the regular roads in TOAW give a particular appearance that is not appropriate for minor paved roads -- yet again -- one has to recall the mud penalty. The look can be changed with a graphics mod, but I don't think the mud penalty can be turned off.

So, as to your question as the game roads reflect the "real world" ... the game gives us two basic road types, whereas in "real life" there are all kinds of roads in terms of military utility. My guess is that anything more sophisticated than that would require a lot of new code being written.

Cheers

< Message edited by cathar1244 -- 2/26/2019 1:23:23 PM >

(in reply to NikolaiEzhov)
Post #: 2
RE: Road or Improved road? - 2/26/2019 7:43:44 AM   
gliz2

 

Posts: 454
Joined: 2/20/2016
Status: offline
I think that in reality the roads were and are a more complex issue.
For example cobblestone roads. One of the sturdies able to accommodate heaviest of tanks. However for horse carriages (which is how most equipment or supplies where moved during the IIWW) they meant a slower pace than an asphalted Landstraße (which in many cases couldn't handle heavy equipment).
And then there comes a terrain and how the road was built on it. The famous Hell's Highway (narrow, elevated with ditches on both sides and no cover) on one end and road from Bastogne to Houffalitz on the other end (broad, leveled but with many quite thick forrests on the sides).
There were also roads which normally were fine but after heavy rains turned into muddy and quite impassable.

_____________________________

Plans are worthless, but planning is essential.

(in reply to cathar1244)
Post #: 3
RE: Road or Improved road? - 2/26/2019 6:14:54 PM   
rhinobones

 

Posts: 1540
Joined: 2/17/2002
Status: offline
For earlier TOAW versions roads are susceptible to weather, i.e. mud. Improved roads are unaffected by weather. I’m guessing this is still true for TOAW IV.

Regards, RhinoBones


_____________________________

Colin Wright:
Comprehensive Wishlist Forum #467 . . . The Norm (blessed be His name, genuflect three times and accept all values in the program as revealed truth)

Pre Combat Air Strikes # 64 . . . I need have no concern about keeping it civil

(in reply to NikolaiEzhov)
Post #: 4
RE: Road or Improved road? - 2/26/2019 10:43:49 PM   
Lobster


Posts: 5104
Joined: 8/8/2013
From: Third rock from the Sun.
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: NikolaiEzhov

What is the difference between a "road" and an "improved road" reflects in the real world?
Shall all the hardened road (concrete/asphalt) be classified as "improved road"?


Hard surface roads are improved road. A road is anything else. To try and break this down into every conceivable surfacing material is sheer insanity.

In some countries a road with compacted rock is considered hard surfaced. No telling what military traffic would do to that.

< Message edited by Lobster -- 2/27/2019 11:11:53 PM >


_____________________________

http://www.operationbarbarossa.net/

Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity and I’m not sure about the universe-Einstein

Q: What do you call a boomerang that doesn’t come back?
A: A stick.

(in reply to NikolaiEzhov)
Post #: 5
Page:   [1]
All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> The Operational Art of War IV >> Road or Improved road? Page: [1]
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts


Forum Software © ASPPlayground.NET Advanced Edition 2.4.5 ANSI

2.156