RE: 24.07.-30.07.41

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All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> Gary Grigsby's War in the East Series >> After Action Reports >> RE: 24.07.-30.07.41

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RE: 24.07.-30.07.41 - 2/24/2019 7:00:05 PM

timmyab

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quote:

I wonder how other people see the Odessa situation. If I were the Axis, I would be tempted to just leave the bridgehead where it is and set up some Rumanians to guard it. The threat from that would be a Soviet attack that forces the Rumanians to surrender come 1942, but in order to do this, the Soviets will have to advance some 14 hexes at least.

The Romanian units should stand off a bit whilst laying seige to Odessa. This could be as much as 50 miles from the city in places. The Soviets can't risk being out of their forts at end of turn. Three divisions and two cav brigades should be plenty enough to contain the Soviet forces in the fortress.

The push along the coast to surrender Romania is unrealistic I feel. I suppose you could guard the mouth of the Dnestr if you were worried but personally I'd rather encourage the Soviet player to have a go for it if they want to try.

The only time I'm going to take Odessa early is when a pz corps has the opportunity to capture it on turn three by coup de main, even then I might choose not to.

The general game situation already looks difficult for the Axis player. He'll need to pull something out of the bag soon.

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Post #: 61

RE: 24.07.-30.07.41 - 2/24/2019 7:09:53 PM

821Bobo

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quote:

The general game situation already looks difficult for the Axis player. He'll need to pull something out of the bag soon.

Why? They are not behind historical schedule.

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Post #: 62

RE: 24.07.-30.07.41 - 2/24/2019 7:27:34 PM

timmyab

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I think the Axis player needs to be a bit ahead of historical. The game favors the player who holds the initiative.
All to play for still of course. As always you're only ever one false move away from disaster when playing the reds.

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Post #: 63

RE: 24.07.-30.07.41 - 2/24/2019 8:19:20 PM

HardLuckYetAgain

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quote:

ORIGINAL: timmyab

quote:

I wonder how other people see the Odessa situation. If I were the Axis, I would be tempted to just leave the bridgehead where it is and set up some Rumanians to guard it. The threat from that would be a Soviet attack that forces the Rumanians to surrender come 1942, but in order to do this, the Soviets will have to advance some 14 hexes at least.

The Romanian units should stand off a bit whilst laying seige to Odessa. This could be as much as 50 miles from the city in places. The Soviets can't risk being out of their forts at end of turn. Three divisions and two cav brigades should be plenty enough to contain the Soviet forces in the fortress.

The push along the coast to surrender Romania is unrealistic I feel. I suppose you could guard the mouth of the Dnestr if you were worried but personally I'd rather encourage the Soviet player to have a go for it if they want to try.

The only time I'm going to take Odessa early is when a pz corps has the opportunity to capture it on turn three by coup de main, even then I might choose not to.

The general game situation already looks difficult for the Axis player. He'll need to pull something out of the bag soon.

Two to three good German Inf divisions along with the Rumanians the City will fall. End of story.

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Post #: 64

RE: 24.07.-30.07.41 - 2/24/2019 8:33:20 PM

821Bobo

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quote:

Two to three good German Inf divisions along with the Rumanians the City will fall. End of story.

True, but WitE2 will be different story.

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/fb.asp?m=4539218

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Post #: 65

RE: 24.07.-30.07.41 - 2/24/2019 9:50:18 PM

HardLuckYetAgain

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quote:

ORIGINAL: 821Bobo

quote:

Two to three good German Inf divisions along with the Rumanians the City will fall. End of story.

True, but WitE2 will be different story.

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/fb.asp?m=4539218

100% correct :-). Totally different I must say. On top of the fact that Germans actually lose tanks in WITE2 unlike Wite 1. I have a lot figured out in WITE 2 :-). Just like I mentioned to you a long time ago about interdiction and Tryron proved it. But yeah WITE 2 is going to be 2-3x more time sync than Wite 1.

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Post #: 66

RE: 24.07.-30.07.41 - 2/24/2019 9:52:56 PM

HardLuckYetAgain

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quote:

ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain

quote:

ORIGINAL: 821Bobo

quote:

Two to three good German Inf divisions along with the Rumanians the City will fall. End of story.

True, but WitE2 will be different story.

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/fb.asp?m=4539218

100% correct :-). Totally different I must say. On top of the fact that Germans actually lose tanks in WITE2 unlike Wite 1. I have a lot figured out in WITE 2 :-). Just like I mentioned to you a long time ago about interdiction and Tryron proved it. But yeah WITE 2 is going to be 2-3x more time sync than Wite 1.

But having said that you have to know how to do it for the Germans but can be done.

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Post #: 67

07.08-13.08.41 - 2/26/2019 10:51:49 AM

821Bobo

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07.08-13.08.41

Evacuation
Krivoi Rog 3 ARM
Poltava 8 ARM
Zaporozhye 4 ARM
Kolpino 3 HI
Kharkov 4 HI
Leningrad area is now completely evacuated.

Germans are slowly grinding towards Leningrad.

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Post #: 68

RE: 07.08-13.08.41 - 2/26/2019 10:53:05 AM

821Bobo

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In center Germans are approaching the new line.
Partisans again attacking rails around Minsk.

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Post #: 69

RE: 07.08-13.08.41 - 2/26/2019 10:56:05 AM

821Bobo

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In the south have Germans crossed to Dneper. 2 junk division are left behind in Kiev plus couple more are trapped. Retreating.

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Post #: 70

RE: 07.08-13.08.41 - 2/26/2019 12:00:55 PM

Crackaces

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A small nit, but the Germans are not conserving supplies by setting their units into refit mode as evidenced by greater than 0fort level.

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Post #: 71

RE: 07.08-13.08.41 - 2/26/2019 12:21:28 PM

821Bobo

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These are the kind of details not everyone pays attention to.

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RE: 07.08-13.08.41 - 2/26/2019 2:33:55 PM

mrhuggles

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Crackaces

A small nit, but the Germans are not conserving supplies by setting their units into refit mode as evidenced by greater than 0fort level.

Could you explain this a little more?

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Post #: 73

RE: 07.08-13.08.41 - 2/26/2019 3:20:20 PM

821Bobo

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Units in refit mode do not dig and you can also set 0% for fort build by units in the production screen

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Post #: 74

RE: 07.08-13.08.41 - 2/26/2019 3:44:00 PM

SparkleyTits

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Units in refit do dig but it's dependant on their TOE, so 90% TOE units dig at 90% their usual construction rate etc
Units on reserve take up much less supplies in logistics and also dig at 25% the usual construction rate which is what I think Aces was reffering to

I've never noticed you could set your fort building to 0% though great to know!
What are the advantages of doing so?

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Post #: 75

RE: 07.08-13.08.41 - 2/27/2019 7:30:22 AM

821Bobo

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Conserving supplies while are you ahead of railheads, but probably useful only for Axis in 41 when Soviets are weak.

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RE: 07.08-13.08.41 - 2/27/2019 2:07:56 PM

Crackaces

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SparkleyTits

Units in refit do dig but it's dependant on their TOE, so 90% TOE units dig at 90% their usual construction rate etc
Units on reserve take up much less supplies in logistics and also dig at 25% the usual construction rate which is what I think Aces was reffering to

I've never noticed you could set your fort building to 0% though great to know!
What are the advantages of doing so?

Oh OK! I have been all this time thinking Refit .. no dig .. Reserve some less % factor .. good to be corrected ..

(For the forum) -- The supplies saved is small but this game savings is incremental over time and has ramifications. For example, increased supply demand means more trucks .. every truck saved is an incremental cost savings .. There are games won with simple counter pushing .. but a game between two tough foes requires from my sophomoric view .. economics and "femtomanagement "

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Post #: 77

RE: 07.08-13.08.41 - 2/27/2019 2:14:30 PM

SparkleyTits

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Saving trucks sounds nice indeed!
Would it also mean the divisision gets less of it's supplies and ammo needs with you getting less supply convoys rolling in, as that could be a nasty downside, or am I missing some context/thinking about it the wrong way and supplies received is still the same as a % of needs?

< Message edited by SparkleyTits -- 2/27/2019 2:17:59 PM >

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Post #: 78

RE: 07.08-13.08.41 - 2/27/2019 2:51:33 PM

Crackaces

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SparkleyTits

Saving trucks sounds nice indeed!
Would it also mean the divisision gets less of it's supplies and ammo needs with you getting less supply convoys rolling in, as that could be a nasty downside, or am I missing some context/thinking about it the wrong way and supplies received is still the same as a % of needs?

(for the forum as ST is quite versed in WITE) What I think ST is pointing out is that every unit has a total supply and ammo on hand and a need. It is shown when you look at a unit as supply/need. The German units start turn 1 with like 200%. As things progress this extra money in the bank is used to progress ever Eastward. At some point supplies on hand decrease below need and a pull logic starts up with the units demanding supplies and ammo. Fuel works the same way and on turn 3 it becomes quite a shock to the new German player <smile>. When supplies on hand drop below need trucks are sent out with stuff to meet the demand. Unfortunately every truck used undergoes a random die roll to be damaged or destroyed. The further in MP's from the rail head the more likely the truck will be damaged. A division will use supplies just sitting there. If adjacent to an enemy unit it will use supplies and ammo undergoing attrition during the logistics phase. A small appreciable amount of supplies are used for digging. Now it is possible that the initial bank is never used and thus directly the trucks are not going to bring supplies. But this is an incremental game -- that is everything saved now can be used later. So yes with supplies greater than demand using supplies is not going to demand trucks that turn , but the piper will have to be paid someday.

From my perspective every truck saved every turn postpones the time and effect of the great truck deficit that happens starting the first winter, and is relieved by making the north sector static. My tactical and operational habits during winter uses a lot of trucks. <smile>. I equate a unit needlessly digging in as simply burning $100 bills that I will need when the money becomes much more rare. Just like a rich banker regrets all those Louis XIII shots right after the crash.

Clearly movement and combat are far more dramatic uses of supplies and ammo, but say 50 divisions digging in will each use a small increment of supplies that together add up .. and trucks will go out and replenish those supplies once supplies drop below needs.

Where it has been pointed out to me that dramatic ramifications rear its ugly head is when truck needs is greater than trucks on hand ... here the conservation of just a few trucks can mean a real difference ..

I hope that makes the point more clear?

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Post #: 79

RE: 07.08-13.08.41 - 2/27/2019 4:42:04 PM

SparkleyTits

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Yes that helps alot thanks Aces!

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14.08-20.08.41 - 2/28/2019 8:44:25 AM

821Bobo

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14.08-20.08.41

No dramatic change in the north, grinding continues.

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RE: 14.08-20.08.41 - 2/28/2019 8:46:54 AM

821Bobo

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Relatively big Smolensk pocket formed(around 20 divisions) in center. I was able to cut off the whole Panzer group with series of counter attacks. Next turn is mud

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Post #: 82

14.08-20.08.41 - 2/28/2019 8:51:42 AM

821Bobo

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Retreat in south. Also started to pull out units from Odessa.

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Post #: 83

RE: 14.08-20.08.41 - 2/28/2019 1:21:20 PM

Fanstar1

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quote:

ORIGINAL: 821Bobo

Relatively big Smolensk pocket formed(around 20 divisions) in center. I was able to cut off the whole Panzer group with series of counter attacks. Next turn is mud

He should be able to break that but that Is not good for him

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Post #: 84

RE: 14.08-20.08.41 - 2/28/2019 1:29:06 PM

821Bobo

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The north part is solid, at least I thought so. It turned out the tank division was weak spot.

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Post #: 85

21.08-27.08.41 - 3/1/2019 4:05:19 PM

821Bobo

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21.08-27.08.41

Industry evacuated in past 2 weeks.
14.08.1941 Kharkov 10 Vehicle 15 ARM
14.08.1941 Mariupol 1 ARM
14.08.1941 Moscow 1 Il-4
21.08.1941 Bryansk 4 HI 4 ARM
21.08.1941 Bryansk 3 HI 4 ARM
21.08.1941 Kharkov 20 T-34

No dramatic change in north.

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RE: 21.08-27.08.41 - 3/1/2019 4:10:54 PM

821Bobo

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Germans were able to reestablish contact with both Panzer korps that have been isolated in previous turn. Vitebsk is now holding for 3rd week and blocking rail repair. True heroes of Soviet Union.