Matrix Games Forums

 Forums  Register  Login  Photo Gallery  Member List  Search  Calendars  FAQ 

My Profile  Inbox  Address Book  My Subscription  My Forums  Log Out

RE: 8MP to T54: South closes the team AAR

 
View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
Users viewing this topic: none
  Printable Version
All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> Gary Grigsby's War in the East Series >> After Action Reports >> RE: 8MP to T54: South closes the team AAR Page: <<   < prev  27 28 [29] 30 31   next >   >>
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
RE: 8MP to T54: South closes the team AAR - 3/10/2019 1:02:48 PM   
Telemecus


Posts: 4689
Joined: 3/20/2016
Status: offline 		Turn 51 10-Jun-1942 South - A look back at Soviet turn 50

The small pocket of Soviet units remains intact, and to their north units are barely able to escape through the mud. A large number of Soviet units are found to be railing in to the area.




Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Telemecus -- 3/10/2019 1:03:03 PM >

(in reply to Telemecus)
Post #: 841
RE: 8MP to T54: South closes the team AAR - 3/10/2019 1:05:29 PM   
Telemecus


Posts: 4689
Joined: 3/20/2016
Status: offline 		Turn 51 10-Jun-1942 South

17th army shuts the claws around the units trying to escape through the mud to the North. Another frontline on the road to Stalingrad finds itself surrounded.





Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Telemecus -- 3/10/2019 1:11:34 PM >

(in reply to Telemecus)
Post #: 842
RE: 8MP to T54: South closes the team AAR - 3/11/2019 11:41:03 AM   
Telemecus


Posts: 4689
Joined: 3/20/2016
Status: offline 		Turn 52 17-Jun-1942 South

Soviet forces pull back to the Chir and Tsmila rivers and mud delays the ongoing southern advance. The remaining pockets are liquidated.




Attachment (1)

(in reply to Telemecus)
Post #: 843
RE: 8MP to T54: South closes the team AAR - 3/11/2019 12:07:19 PM   
Telemecus


Posts: 4689
Joined: 3/20/2016
Status: offline 		Turn 52+ South - "Do Not Let Them Do a Brian"

Ocassionally the AAR of another game can have a dramatic effect on the course of another. And in this case it was the AAR of BrianG v Smokindave34 http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4449422&mpage=20&key= which caused many on the Axis team to pause and think. At roughly the same time in the game as we were at the Soviet side in the Brian game won after an encirclement of the German centre. The next turn to arrive to us saw the 8MP Soviet team seemingly attempt to do the same with attacks from the Oka river and Voronezh. The reaction of the centre has already been described including the decision to secure the flanks of the Oka. But the team mantra of do not let the Soviet team "Do a Brian" also caused our Southern commander to change course. In the past few turns the South had encircled a succession of parallel frontlines by puncturing minor river defences and surging through the gaps in between. With summer yet to start we are now a dozen hexes away from Stalingrad - and yet our flanks at Rostov and Boguchar are dangerously exposed with only Rumanian armies to defend them. Not a good portent.

So the planning for south's "Do not let them do a Brian" is to change course from the main attack to Stalingrad and instead secure the flank near Rostov. Our units will be repositioned to force a crossing of the Don using the same army which has just been railed in after capturing Sevastopol. The hope is an exploitation could leave
i) Rostov encircled
ii) the western rail line into the Caucasus cut (railing units to the Caucasus could then only be done along the Caspian coast taking more than one turn - and the Caucasus are very short of Soviet units)
iii) Open a new route to Stalingrad without having to force the major river closer to it.




Attachment (1)

(in reply to Telemecus)
Post #: 844
RE: 8MP to T54: South closes the team AAR - 3/11/2019 5:15:33 PM   
Crackaces


Posts: 3858
Joined: 7/9/2011
Status: offline 		I think this shows the risks and benefits of the strategy EvK documents as "PacMan". The South chomped on multiple lines and made great progress, but as time advanced the positions incurred more risk requiring an intervention.

Certainly, the South had not encountered layers of Guards like the center .. but it would not take much to rail a layer in and counterattack.

_____________________________

"What gets us into trouble is not what we don't know. It's what we know for sure that just ain't so"

(in reply to Telemecus)
Post #: 845
RE: 8MP to T54: South closes the team AAR - 3/12/2019 4:01:17 PM   
Telemecus


Posts: 4689
Joined: 3/20/2016
Status: offline 		Turn 53 24-Jun-1942 South

As expected the Soviet side is continually attaking the Rumanian armies flanking our advance to Stalingrad - perhaps trying to re-emulate history. Soviet lines on the Chir and Tsmila rivers have been abandoned without a fight.

Our own surprise change of course is locked and loaded - but the weather says no. 11th army replete with pioneers and heavy artillery waits to cross the lower Don, with Model and our best generals in charge. 1st Panzer Army waits behind them to exploit any breakthrough. But with mud they must all wait, rest and refit.




Das Reich, in its last turn before withdrawing, feints a continued advance direct to Stalingrad.

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Telemecus -- 3/12/2019 4:28:00 PM >

(in reply to Crackaces)
Post #: 846
RE: 8MP to T54: South closes the team AAR - 3/13/2019 6:31:03 PM   
EwaldvonKleist


Posts: 2038
Joined: 4/14/2016
From: Berlin, Germany
Status: offline 		This video, made with Niedowidek's map generator (http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4591702&mpage=1&key=�), shows an animation of the frontline from T1 to T54. Now we have WitE movies too!

_____________________________

The Library of Gary Grigsby's War in the East resources.
Do you want total war? Guide for WitE players

(in reply to Telemecus)
Post #: 847
RE: 8MP to T54: South closes the team AAR - 3/14/2019 1:44:01 AM   
TunganNinja

 

Posts: 28
Joined: 7/19/2017
From: Canada
Status: offline
quote:

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4591702&mpage=1&key=�


Holy smokes that's cool!

(in reply to EwaldvonKleist)
Post #: 848
RE: 8MP to T54: South closes the team AAR - 3/14/2019 2:19:38 AM   
Crackaces


Posts: 3858
Joined: 7/9/2011
Status: offline 		Turn 54 gets pretty exciting and the tension mounts as spring comes “and the dawn is surely coming ..”
I will document the game as soon as turn 57 comes back..It is worth mentioning that M60 is putting up a very scrappy defense. With 5.5M it is tough and the Germans stretch the line further .. of course in 15 more turns the winter will mean a huge scramble ..

_____________________________

"What gets us into trouble is not what we don't know. It's what we know for sure that just ain't so"

(in reply to TunganNinja)
Post #: 849
RE: 8MP to T54: South closes the team AAR - 3/14/2019 3:38:28 PM   
Telemecus


Posts: 4689
Joined: 3/20/2016
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: EwaldvonKleist

This video, made with Niedowidek's map generator (http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4591702&mpage=1&key=�), shows an animation of the frontline from T1 to T54. Now we have WitE movies too!


Spent ages looking at it and looking at it again. Which means either it is very brilliant or I have a very sad life!

< Message edited by Telemecus -- 3/14/2019 3:40:57 PM >

(in reply to EwaldvonKleist)
Post #: 850
RE: 8MP to T54: South closes the team AAR - 3/14/2019 3:50:15 PM   
Telemecus


Posts: 4689
Joined: 3/20/2016
Status: offline 		Turn 54 01-Jul-1942 South

Clear weather allows finally for the trigger to be pulled. 11th army storms the lower Don. Surprisingly the 4th Panzer army was able to capture the port of Azov leaving the units in Rostov isolated. We had assumed they would remain in port supply but with very limited transport capacity, under aerial interdiction, through the Azov sea. However the objective of cutting the only rail line into the West Caucasus was not accomplished. Reconnaisance has found little to no Soviet units in the Caucasus. If we are not going to be allowed simply to walk in and capture large parts of it unimpeded the Soviet side will have to rail in many units. Going through the only other rail line on the East side of the Caucasus would have taken more than one turn and effectively doubled the rail capacity to do it. As the rail line on the West side is still open, for now, there is a window still for the Soviet team to scramble some sort of defence in.



Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Telemecus -- 3/14/2019 3:56:08 PM >

(in reply to EwaldvonKleist)
Post #: 851
RE: 8MP to T54: South closes the team AAR - 3/14/2019 4:03:20 PM   
M60A3TTS


Posts: 4014
Joined: 5/13/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: EwaldvonKleist

This video, made with Niedowidek's map generator (http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4591702&mpage=1&key=�), shows an animation of the frontline from T1 to T54. Now we have WitE movies too!



(in reply to EwaldvonKleist)
Post #: 852
RE: 8MP to T54: South closes the team AAR - 3/14/2019 4:09:30 PM   
Crackaces


Posts: 3858
Joined: 7/9/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: M60A3TTS


quote:

ORIGINAL: EwaldvonKleist

This video, made with Niedowidek's map generator (http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4591702&mpage=1&key=�), shows an animation of the frontline from T1 to T54. Now we have WitE movies too!





Just remember Brian G vs Sillyflower.. and no German quitting when fortunes reverse!


_____________________________

"What gets us into trouble is not what we don't know. It's what we know for sure that just ain't so"

(in reply to M60A3TTS)
Post #: 853
RE: 8MP to T54: South closes the team AAR - 3/15/2019 11:45:50 AM   
Telemecus


Posts: 4689
Joined: 3/20/2016
Status: offline 		The Crimea Defence Plan

Our Soviet opponents had amply built up their defences of the Kerch straits so we knew there was no profitable prospect of trying to make an assault crossing to the Kuban. So the sole task our remaining forces was the defence of the Crimea.

A corps of the 1st Rumanian army guarded the straits themselves. But what else was needed to prevent the Soviet side from reestablishing themselves in the Crimea by using naval invasions?

Ultimately any naval invasion would be isolated and could easily be repelled by units railed in on future turns unless
i) a port was captured and held for long enough until it repaired - only Sevastopol could be repaired quickly enough for this to even be a prospect.
Or
ii) the naval invasion could lead to the defeat of the troops holding the straits by isolating them to reduce their effectiveness against cross-straits attacks

Our aim was to prevent this happening, but to do so with the minimum number of units so as not to divert them from the fighting on the main frontline. The team went through many versions of where combat units should be stationed in Crimea or where forts should be built. But after game playing all the possible scenarios we came to the surprising conclusion that nothing else was needed so long as the size 1 port of Temryuk in the Azov sea a few hexes from Kerch was bombed to give it a few points damage.

The picture below illustrates our Crimea defence plan. The red highlighted areas show the only hexes the Soviet team could launch an amphibious invasion on once Sevastopol was repaired and while Temryuk was too damaged to operate.




The nearest they could land to Sevastopol would be six hexes away - and that would be if they walked over mountains. As we will always have units garrisoning Nikolaev and other cities near by, generally combat units needing refit from the front, there will always be units we can rail in the same turn as any naval invasion to intercept them. A turn later and many more units in an emergency could be railed in from other garrisons and the frontlines. Not only could a naval invasion not hold on to Sevastopol until it repaired, it would be intercepted before even getting there. The units isolated from any port would be easy for even allies to defeat.

However the Soviet team could counter this by a seperate naval invasion on the Azov sea coast to cut the rail line on a coastal hex, or 1 hex away from the coast by flipping control through a ZOC. This would only be possible if Temryuk remained a working port - and as a size one port only a small amount of damage would keep it from working. The remaining Soviet ports on the Azov sea of Eysk and Azov itself are too far away to allow an invasion east of Ak-Manay and the Kerch peninsula. So long as Temryuk was bombed to stop it working, no invasion further to the west was possible and units could always be railed in to the peninsula in time to defend Sevastopol.

Our remaining worry was that naval invasions could leave the units defending the Kerch straits isolated by cutting off the land route. It seemed also that a supply route to the port of Kerch through the Black Sea was blocked by the much bigger ports the Soviet side had on the Black sea coast nearby. Full credit needs to be given to timmyab for finding out that the port of Kerch in Axis hands would continue to be supplied from other Axis ports in the Azov sea. Not only did timmyab test this to show it was true, timmyab was the first to even suggest it was possible. Given that the Axis side will always have zero shipping capacity in the Azov sea, however much of the world it conquers, it is surprising that it can still trace supply over the sea.

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Telemecus -- 3/15/2019 11:46:23 AM >

(in reply to Telemecus)
Post #: 854
RE: 8MP to T54: South closes the team AAR - 3/15/2019 11:53:54 AM   
Telemecus


Posts: 4689
Joined: 3/20/2016
Status: offline 		Where next for South?




Attachment (1)

(in reply to Telemecus)
Post #: 855
8MP to T54: Air closes the team AAR - 3/15/2019 12:44:30 PM   
Telemecus


Posts: 4689
Joined: 3/20/2016
Status: offline 		Turn 50 03-Jun-1942 Air

Absolutely no air activity during the Soviet go - including no ground support or even recon.

During our turn even more curiously we find the same five clusters of Soviet airbases as last turn full of bombers and recon planes - but absolutely no fighters anywhere. They are all in easy range for our bombers - they almost seem to be laid out deliberately to lose as many aircraft as possible to unintercepted airbase bombing. As a team we even waited a day before starting the turn to discuss what this new Soviet tactic was. The best we could come up with was that, given how the Soviet team have protested that the bombing of their fighter factories made no difference and they did not even need all the things the factories made, this was their attempt to prove the point. So our response should be to maximise the airbase bombing and destroy as many Soviet aircraft as possible to make the point that they really did need fighters. So I spent the next day kabuki dancing all of the airgroups and airfields to maximise the effect of the airbase bombing. I was doing lots of screenshots showing hundreds of Soviet aircraft being destroyed on the ground with absolutely no Soviet fighter interception - and was looking forward to uploading these glories here in this AAR post ...

But on the second day a message arrived from the Soviet supreme commander saying they had made a mistake and forgotten to send all the aircraft to national reserve - and asked to take the ended turn again to do so. All the Axis team readily agreed to allow this. My big disappointment though is that I can now not show those wonderful glorious screenshots of the wholesale destruction of the Soviet air force on the ground.

Instead for this turn the air war was a sleepy affair - and the glories of what was going to be will only ever be known to me. Sigh.




On later reflection though the real curiosity is why no one in the Axis team, for even one minute, thought the first Soviet air deployment was a mistake. For anyone else that might have been my first thought and I would have asked. But for the 8MP Soviet team we were utterly sure it was intentional - and that was the scariest lesson this turn.

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Telemecus -- 3/15/2019 12:45:08 PM >

(in reply to Telemecus)
Post #: 856
RE: 8MP to T54: Air closes the team AAR - 3/15/2019 1:34:10 PM   
Telemecus


Posts: 4689
Joined: 3/20/2016
Status: offline 		Turn 51 10-Jun-1942 Air

No Soviet air activity during the Soviet turn - and only a few Soviet airgroups have returned to the map in one cluster of airbases to the East of Stalingrad. With most of the front under mud there is little opportunity for ground support or bombing either. So apart from the usual start bombing there is no air war this turn. In stead the opportunity is taken to rotate airgroups through NR and set up more level bomber airgroups to auto upgrade to 1942 level bomber models in the logistics phase. Around one third of our airbases are no assigned to our best FliegerKorps commander von Richtofen, who in turn is assigned together with 8 other airbases to Leftflotte 6. Kesselring returned to an air command with the arrival of Luftflotte 6 and now has two thirds of all German airbase under their command, and usually almost all the airgroups on the map are assigne to those airbases. The relative calm also allows for a reorganisation of the Finnish fighter air force with the best air groups being swapped to longer range models such as the super longer range Brewsters, while the worst groups instead get the biplanes and very short range G50s.


Meanwhile after testing some recently captured Soviet aircraft converted for use by the Axis, the Luftwaffe deems them to be below the standards requisite for being flown by any of their pilots.

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Telemecus -- 3/15/2019 2:11:18 PM >

(in reply to Telemecus)
Post #: 857
RE: 8MP to T54: Air closes the team AAR - 3/15/2019 4:15:12 PM   
Telemecus


Posts: 4689
Joined: 3/20/2016
Status: offline 		Turn 52 17-Jun-1942 Air

The Soviet air force is now starting to return to the map in strength again. In their turn they even dared to send recon to 5 hexes. As usual few of their recon planes actually returned from their missions. Most of the interceptions of the Soviet recon are being carried out by the Rumanian air force right up to the Oka. In the 8MP Axis team the southern axis no move line has long ceased to be a barrier for the southern allies air forces.




The 1942 air war is starting to shape up on different lines. 1941 had seen Soviet fighter air bases not mutually supporting, Soviet fighter groups intercepting at different ranges so that even fighters on the same fighter base were not mutually supporting and the airgroups with so few ready aircraft that they were soon below their air doctrine requirements and not flying at all. As a result the Soviet air force was decimated in detail. The 1942 deployments have been different with airbases mutually supporting each other in defence, intercept ranges for each airgroup set to coincide so that they overlap each other completely and fighter groups on the map having a healthy margin of ready aircraft over the air doctrine required number. It is no longer possible to send a few fighter sweeps to stop any Soviet fighters flying at all and then freely bomb their airfields.

The lesson on turn 48 was that turning our entire combat air force onto some of the clusters of airbases would still overwhelm even these strong dispositions. In effect we can now use the sledgehammer even if we can no longer use the scalpel. But having stopped the Soviet fighter force flying on turn 48, we did not have a reserve of bombers to continue the attacks to turn the "win" for the Axis air forces into a disaster for the Soviet air forces. With that lesson learned instead of attacking the returning Soviet air force this turn we are calling every bomber and combat aircraft out of reserve for THE big air battle next turn. In effect next turn will be Operation Adlertag for the War in the East.

Attachment (1)

(in reply to Telemecus)
Post #: 858
RE: 8MP to T54: Air closes the team AAR - 3/16/2019 9:05:16 PM   
Telemecus


Posts: 4689
Joined: 3/20/2016
Status: offline 		Turn 53 24-Jun-1942 Air - A look back at Soviet turn 52

Having had so many easy victories and no Soviet air presence to speak of it came as quite a shock to find suddenly close to 100 German fighters and fighters bombers destroyed in the Soviet turn.



But the Red Army has gone where the Red Air Force fears to tread - and breaks its way through two rows of German lines to rout some airbases. Easy times led to too much carelessness!




Attachment (1)

(in reply to Telemecus)
Post #: 859
RE: 8MP to T54: Air closes the team AAR - 3/16/2019 9:07:17 PM   
Telemecus


Posts: 4689
Joined: 3/20/2016
Status: offline 		Turn 53 24-Jun-1942 Air

Operation Adlertag for the East postponed - at least for this turn. The sledgehammer has been put away for the scalpel once more. This was the turn, like turn 48, when we were set for an all out attack with the whole air force on a cluster of Soviet airbases - but this time with a reserve force of bombers to pick up the goodies once the soviet fighters stopped flying again. But with weaknesses in the Soviet air deployment it is worth working on the fault lines for one more turn.

Recon finds all enemy aircraft deployed in airbases in three clusters - at Stalingrad, near Saratov and near Saransk. The first of these has three fighter bases and the latter two only two. Reconnaisance also finds their fighter aircraft have their maximum range capped at only one hex away. These areas of interception from fighter airbases are shown by red hexagons on the map.

We know from earlier exchanges in this thread that our opponents have been anxious to avoid spam recon and see reducing the maximum range that fighters can fly as a way to reduce the total area which they can be made to intercept recon on. But by reducing it to such an extreme they are no longer able to provide fighter cover for the same cluster of airbases. At Stalingrad and near Saransk fighter airbases are two hexes apart meaning one will not defend the other if attacked. The whole point of clustering airbases into geographical areas is that they can be mutually supporting. With a maximum air range of 1 hex for their interceptors any airbases 2 hexes away may as well be 100 hexes away.

Our opponents no longer place fighter airbases in swamps like they used to - but this turn they have started putting a fighter base in an urban hex - so we also know the middle fighter airbase hex in Stalingrad will not fly at all.

In effect the deployment of Soviet air forces has left the effectiveness of the fighter cover over Saransk halved and over Stalingrad divided by three. So this turn we exploited these weaknesses by concentrating our attacks on just one side of these clusters of airbases which the other side would not help.




Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Telemecus -- 3/16/2019 9:09:11 PM >

(in reply to Telemecus)
Post #: 860
RE: 8MP to T54: Air closes the team AAR - 3/16/2019 9:14:32 PM   
Telemecus


Posts: 4689
Joined: 3/20/2016
Status: offline 		Turn 53 24-Jun-1942 Air - Losses

The Soviet fighter force again saw far more losses than its production this turn, but the record was marred by our own losses during the Soviet turn.




Attachment (1)

(in reply to Telemecus)
Post #: 861
RE: 8MP to T54: Air closes the team AAR - 3/16/2019 10:08:46 PM   
Crackaces


Posts: 3858
Joined: 7/9/2011
Status: offline 		100 fighters! What are you thinking ? :)

_____________________________

"What gets us into trouble is not what we don't know. It's what we know for sure that just ain't so"

(in reply to Telemecus)
Post #: 862
RE: 8MP to T54: Air closes the team AAR - 3/16/2019 10:12:29 PM   
Telemecus


Posts: 4689
Joined: 3/20/2016
Status: offline 		I am thinking the Axis Centre commander should be severely punished for allowing that through!

(in reply to Crackaces)
Post #: 863
RE: 8MP to T54: Air closes the team AAR - 3/16/2019 11:28:49 PM   
Crackaces


Posts: 3858
Joined: 7/9/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Telemecus

I am thinking the Axis Centre commander should be severely punished for allowing that through!


I do think the attacks were ordered by AGS :)

_____________________________

"What gets us into trouble is not what we don't know. It's what we know for sure that just ain't so"

(in reply to Telemecus)
Post #: 864
RE: 8MP to T54: Air closes the team AAR - 3/16/2019 11:41:28 PM   
SparkleyTits

 

Posts: 898
Joined: 10/7/2016
From: England
Status: offline 		I just got flashbacks from 2by3's flaming stuka debacle when reading this
More experimental type air missions it seems!

(in reply to Crackaces)
Post #: 865
RE: 8MP to T54: Air closes the team AAR - 3/17/2019 2:42:28 AM   
M60A3TTS


Posts: 4014
Joined: 5/13/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Telemecus

Turn 50 03-Jun-1942 Air

Absolutely no air activity during the Soviet go - including no ground support or even recon.

During our turn even more curiously we find the same five clusters of Soviet airbases as last turn full of bombers and recon planes - but absolutely no fighters anywhere. They are all in easy range for our bombers - they almost seem to be laid out deliberately to lose as many aircraft as possible to unintercepted airbase bombing. As a team we even waited a day before starting the turn to discuss what this new Soviet tactic was. The best we could come up with was that, given how the Soviet team have protested that the bombing of their fighter factories made no difference and they did not even need all the things the factories made, this was their attempt to prove the point. So our response should be to maximise the airbase bombing and destroy as many Soviet aircraft as possible to make the point that they really did need fighters. So I spent the next day kabuki dancing all of the airgroups and airfields to maximise the effect of the airbase bombing. I was doing lots of screenshots showing hundreds of Soviet aircraft being destroyed on the ground with absolutely no Soviet fighter interception - and was looking forward to uploading these glories here in this AAR post ...

But on the second day a message arrived from the Soviet supreme commander saying they had made a mistake and forgotten to send all the aircraft to national reserve - and asked to take the ended turn again to do so. All the Axis team readily agreed to allow this. My big disappointment though is that I can now not show those wonderful glorious screenshots of the wholesale destruction of the Soviet air force on the ground.

Instead for this turn the air war was a sleepy affair - and the glories of what was going to be will only ever be known to me. Sigh.




On later reflection though the real curiosity is why no one in the Axis team, for even one minute, thought the first Soviet air deployment was a mistake. For anyone else that might have been my first thought and I would have asked. But for the 8MP Soviet team we were utterly sure it was intentional - and that was the scariest lesson this turn.



This was the right and good thing to do, I will add. Had the Soviet request been turned down, I very much doubt I would be playing Crackaces today.

I will also add that on turn 53 I left the game with my successor who had been advised to make sure the Soviet group ranges were set properly at the end of the turn before passing it on. Due to confusion over this 1 hex=40 group range that I have mentioned elsewhere, it was not done properly and turn 54 saw a large loss of Soviet planes. Still, that was the turn that I accepted from Crackaces even though the losses were not totally of my making. So there was a little bit of give and take in all of this.

(in reply to Telemecus)
Post #: 866
RE: 8MP to T54: Air closes the team AAR - 3/17/2019 2:36:35 PM   
Telemecus


Posts: 4689
Joined: 3/20/2016
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: M60A3TTS

This was the right and good thing to do, I will add. Had the Soviet request been turned down, I very much doubt I would be playing Crackaces today.


Also no debate or cajoling - I felt I had to ask everyone first and the answer was a quick yes every time. One team member would say no for their solo games, but always felt this was a different experimental type of game rather than a straight competition one and so had to be treated as such. For my own part I am interested in the narrative, which strategies and tactics worked and were good and which were not. If it all boiled down to a mistake that would spoil it for me.

I know many see server games as the gold standard and for the competitive aspect it would be. But for other approaches to the game PBEM does have benefits. After having spent so much time on a game it would be a loss to have it spoilt for a reason all would be happy to undo but would be unable to on a server game. I have been in games which were kept alive because we both wanted to explore what would have been if a different choice had been made in an earlier turn - and were able to roll back and play on from that point. Again something that could not have been done on a server game.


< Message edited by Telemecus -- 3/17/2019 2:48:21 PM >

(in reply to M60A3TTS)
Post #: 867
RE: 8MP to T54: Air closes the team AAR - 3/17/2019 3:51:22 PM   
Telemecus


Posts: 4689
Joined: 3/20/2016
Status: offline 		Turn 54 1-Jul-1942 Air - Step by Step

This will be my final turn as air commander in the 8MP game here. I have noticed that the whole air warfare aspect of this game has caused some interest and before I hand over the keys of this AAR to Crackaces I intend to write some reflections on what I think really happened, not all of which matches the impressions others seem to have. But I thought it could be useful for this turn instead of describing the results of the air war, I would instead write a step by step guide to what I actually did.

(in reply to Telemecus)
Post #: 868
RE: 8MP to T54: Air closes the team AAR - 3/17/2019 3:52:34 PM   
Telemecus


Posts: 4689
Joined: 3/20/2016
Status: offline 		Turn 54 1-Jul-1942 Air - Step 1: Recon of air bases

After a little kabuki dancing, to get some recon airgroups to where I want, I use recon to increase the detection levels of enemy airbases. Every enemy airbase should end the turn on at least detection level 2, but every airbase that may be part of the battle this turn needs to be raised to detection level 5 from the start. I say increase detection level rather than find where they are as every turn I will already know where they are before the turn starts. Indeed they are easier to spot at the start before recon when other units start getting detected as well. Airbases only lose one detection level every turn, so as long as you have them on detection level two you will be able to see them next turn. On turn 1 I know where every airbase is (from scenario data) even if they are invisible (as is usually the case for the Soviet airbase near Zapo. for example)- and made sure from then I started keeping their detection levels high so I would keep tracking where they were turn to turn. Similarly for frozen airbases out of range I would need to detect them and start tracking after they came into recon range and before they unfroze. This is important. The way I play the air war it is as improtant to know where there are no air bases as to know where there are - missing a few is a big problem. In practise there are always a few exceptions. 38IAD for instance starts the game out of range of Axis recon and unfreezes before Axis recon can find it. Luckily the 8MP Soviet team never moved it before then so I was able to recon its start position once in range, detect it and never lose it again. Similarly when new airbases start to be made it is important to pick them up quickly.




The picture above shows 68IAD after the airbase recon - it has been raised to detection level 5 as if it had some unprotected aircraft I might have been interested in bombing them. Next turn it will start on detection level 4, and I will raise it to level 5 again for the same reason. It has been parked on a swamp hex for many turns now without any aircraft. But if any turn it is moved by the Soviet team to anywhere else I will know straight away at the start of the turn.

Raising airbase detection levels to 5 means I know all of the airgroups that are on the airbase and how many ready aircraft are in each airgroup. Not only do I know this at the time of the recon air mission, the display will also update as the number of ready aircraft changes during the turn even if no more recon is conducted. I find this a real flaw in the design of the WitE air system open to exploit. I know because I exploit it ruthlessly. But I do find it strange that while you can find a lot of smoke and light on other aspects of the air war in these forums, no one really comments on this even though I find it the most egregious.

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Telemecus -- 3/17/2019 3:53:05 PM >

(in reply to Telemecus)
Post #: 869
RE: 8MP to T54: Air closes the team AAR - 3/17/2019 4:20:42 PM   
Telemecus


Posts: 4689
Joined: 3/20/2016
Status: offline 		Turn 54 1-Jul-1942 Air - Step 2: Find out your opponents percentage required to fly air doctrine

Many will get an inkling of this as the game goes on - but I find it useful to know this from the start. As for so many turns in this game, and almost as a standard for many others, the answer tends to be 50% so I will usually first try to answer the simpler question "Is their percentage required to fly air doctrine still 50% like it was last turn?"

There are different methods for doing this but for me the standard approach is using recon. I can provide a step by step guide if there is interest in one. But the principle is can you see the number of ready aircraft in a fighter group go down and show that before it would conduct interceptions and afterwards would not, and also eliminate other reasons for this such as the base ran out of fuel or ammo. It can be difficult to do as you need to untangle so many different elements. For instance you need to be sure that you are not seeing interceptions from another fighter group of the same model of aircraft. I tend to find it impossible to do in the early turns of a campaign game. It only becomes possible as airgroups spread out over larger areas and more go into reserve. Sometimes I can only narrow it to range - between 40% and 60% say. And sometimes it will take many repeat air recon missions to find out. Which is why I find it strange when someone sees 60 recon missions on one hex and thinks they were not searching for anything and it just must have been spam recon. My first reaction would be they were searching for the most important piece of information - the enemy air doctrine - and took a long time to do it. Fatiguing the enemy is a by-product.

Luckily this turn it became very obvious very quickly our opponents percentage required to fly air doctrine was indeed 50%.

< Message edited by Telemecus -- 3/17/2019 7:33:32 PM >

(in reply to Telemecus)
Post #: 870
Page:   <<   < prev  27 28 [29] 30 31   next >   >>
All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> Gary Grigsby's War in the East Series >> After Action Reports >> RE: 8MP to T54: South closes the team AAR Page: <<   < prev  27 28 [29] 30 31   next >   >>
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts


Forum Software © ASPPlayground.NET Advanced Edition 2.4.5 ANSI

1.781