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Smoke - 6/21/2003 9:36:46 PM   
Paratrooper

 

Posts: 272
Joined: 6/15/2003
From: descending on Stockholm
Status: offline 		Anyone here regularly use smoke in tactical wargames?

I probably should use it more, but I either forget or am more interested in seeing where the enemy is than concealing my positions. The A/I uses it pretty regularly, but more often than not the smoke round lands in one of my hexes instead of in front of it, thus negating the purpose.

Retreating units in the SP series use it, but thats about the only time any of my units use smoke.

Just curious.

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Post #: 1
- 6/21/2003 9:38:38 PM   
Voriax

 

Posts: 1719
Joined: 5/20/2000
From: Finland
Status: offline 		I use smoke quite a lot..it's not unusual for me to curse the lack or low amount of smoke ammo... :)

Voriax

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Post #: 2
- 6/21/2003 10:10:16 PM   
Les_the_Sarge_9_1

 

Posts: 4392
Joined: 12/29/2000
Status: offline 		Smoke god how I love the stuff.

When I play SP I routinely take my generous supply of artillery offboard and douse the entire frontline in the stuff.

You can tell when you are playing me, if suddenly you have to leave the room for fresh air hehe.

Best game yet was me as Brits 1940 France vs local wargamer buddy hotseat game at his place. Took his arrogant German armour out big time heheh (here that you kat nuts).

Dropped an 8 in sourced barrage of smoke right down ontop of all his nice turn one victory hexes he gobbled up foolishly.

Then drove my formation of Matildas into it and order them to have a coffee and wait for the panzers to find them. which they did, horrible slaughter ensued. He was irrate that his panzer 3s were being picked off by my stationary fortresses hehe.
Then I dumped 8 in HE on the victory hexes.
I had to use sponges to wipe his forces off the map heheh.

Pity eh, 88s ain't worth a darn if they can't see anything hehe.

In routine usage, I move a unit, it draws fire, I pop smoke, move next unit a bit further, draws fire, pop smoke. Once I have an idea where the front edge of battle is, it's tme for artillery to smash whatever is shooting at me.

I never hold back on the use of smoke.

Smoke is your friend :) .

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I LIKE that my life bothers them,
Why should I be the only one bothered by it eh.

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Post #: 3
- 6/21/2003 10:12:14 PM   
Wallenstein

 

Posts: 93
Joined: 1/19/2003
From: Austria
Status: offline 		The only game where I used it rather often(and the AI as well) was Combat Mission: BO.
Can´t remember another game right now...

I guess the main reason is that most of my games are against the computer, where I have to play the offensive part and don´t have much use for smoke.

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Post #: 4
- 6/21/2003 10:13:33 PM   
Charles2222


Posts: 3993
Joined: 3/12/2001
Status: offline 		I think there's too much of it, however the AI doesn't use it, with the exception of the endless retreat smokers. I think there's too much of it infantry-wise, both it's frequency and their ammo for it, but my real complaint as stated before is that it lasts far too long. I think more like paratrooper in that I'd rather see than be concealed, but for what little I use it I try to remember to at least have a couple of platoons of tanks that regularly carry some amount of it, such as the PZIV.

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Post #: 5
- 6/21/2003 10:22:42 PM   
Losqualo


Posts: 511
Joined: 5/23/2003
From: Stuttgart, Germany
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by Charles_22
[B]I think there's too much of it, however the AI doesn't use it, with the exception of the endless retreat smokers. I think there's too much of it infantry-wise, both it's frequency and their ammo for it, but my real complaint as stated before is that it lasts far too long. I think more like paratrooper in that I'd rather see than be concealed, but for what little I use it I try to remember to at least have a couple of platoons of tanks that regularly carry some amount of it, such as the PZIV. [/B][/QUOTE]

Not much to add here. :)

Most of the time I use smoke to hide my recon forces when they are suddenly confronted with something stronger (SdKfz 222 against T-34 for example), or to hide troops which are heavily damaged and are in danger of disintegration after losing one more man.

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Post #: 6
Smoke in your face - 6/21/2003 11:45:32 PM   
chief


Posts: 1660
Joined: 9/28/2000
From: Haines City FL, USA
Status: offline 		I used smoke aplenty to get off the beach on D-day Scenarios to blind pillboxes and mg's. Otherwise you've been had. Protect Engineers removing Wild Bills mines is another good use of smoke.;) :) :cool:

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Post #: 7
- 6/22/2003 12:34:17 AM   
Charles2222


Posts: 3993
Joined: 3/12/2001
Status: offline 		Losqualo: Yes, that's a good use, only, if I recall correctly, I don't think any of the GE armored cars have smoke rounds (if that is so I don't think that makes any sense). I know the light tanks don't. I'd like to think the 6-rads and 8-rads have smoke, but I'm pretty sure they don't. I wonder if the GE HT's with the 37L46 and 75L24's have them?

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Post #: 8
- 6/22/2003 12:51:29 AM   
Losqualo


Posts: 511
Joined: 5/23/2003
From: Stuttgart, Germany
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by Charles_22
[B]Losqualo: Yes, that's a good use, only, if I recall correctly, I don't think any of the GE armored cars have smoke rounds (if that is so I don't think that makes any sense). I know the light tanks don't. I'd like to think the 6-rads and 8-rads have smoke, but I'm pretty sure they don't. I wonder if the GE HT's with the 37L46 and 75L24's have them? [/B][/QUOTE]

Well, in my OOB's some of them have smoke (not smoke rounds, but smoke candles).
Officially the 4, 6 or 8 wheeled cars didn't have any smoke rounds, but sometimes they carried smoke grenades inside, and some of the later cars had smoke candles mounted on the front mudguards. I don't know if those were workshop improvements, but you can see them on some pictures, like the one attached. The smoke candles are near the headlight.

I think the only exception regarding smoke rounds might have been the ones you mentioned with the short 7,5cm/L24 gun.

Attachment (1)

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Post #: 9
- 6/22/2003 1:33:17 AM   
junk2drive


Posts: 12907
Joined: 6/27/2002
From: Arizona West Coast
Status: offline 		be sure to check visibility first. i once fired lots of mortar smoke in pre bombardment, only to find vis to be one hex in rain.
yes i use smoke. in defend scen. i hide my ambush. in advance mode i try to cover my screwups lol.
i have seen smoke blow away quick enough to get my troops shot up by mg or tanks, while i thought they were still under cover from the last turn.

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Post #: 10
- 6/22/2003 2:59:14 AM   
Charles2222


Posts: 3993
Joined: 3/12/2001
Status: offline 		Losqualo: I was thinking that to use smoke, you need smoke, such that to use AC's and use smoke to cover their recon attempt would mean for the most part their having smoke they could use themselves. Failing the crew bailing I don't think that leaves much room for the AC's to cover themselves, of course, if they didnt' have them, they didn't have them, but it does make the sort of recon specified here problematic.

Hey, great pic by the way!

junk2drive: What you may have experienced was what I think of as a 'partial' round, or sort of the dud smoke grenade syndrome. I'm not sure you might be confusing it with another SP, or myself for that matter, but I do recall various incarnations of SPWW2, SPWAW, and others, who had the sort of partial smoke possibility. In any case the very long smokers are none too rare. Maybe very bad weather makes them dissipate real quickly, but even the still weather you wouldn't think would keep smoke at ground level onscuring everything for eight plus turns.

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Post #: 11
- 6/22/2003 5:26:35 AM   
Losqualo


Posts: 511
Joined: 5/23/2003
From: Stuttgart, Germany
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by Charles_22
[B]Losqualo: I was thinking that to use smoke, you need smoke, such that to use AC's and use smoke to cover their recon attempt would mean for the most part their having smoke they could use themselves. Failing the crew bailing I don't think that leaves much room for the AC's to cover themselves, of course, if they didnt' have them, they didn't have them, but it does make the sort of recon specified here problematic.

Hey, great pic by the way!
[/B][/QUOTE]

Well I don't think my english is good enough to understand all.:confused:

What I wanted to say is that most german tanks and AC's had smoke dischargers to hide themselves as a defensive measure. If you meant that it would be problematic to use the smoke to cover their approach, I fully agree because it would [I]reveal[/I] them.

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Post #: 12
- 6/22/2003 11:41:52 PM   
Charles2222


Posts: 3993
Joined: 3/12/2001
Status: offline 		Losqualo: No your English is very good from where I stand (though command of any slang we may use is always questionable). I was a bit worried that you might not know what a "pic" was (picture).

What I was referring to in AC's using smokers as being problematic, was based on the idea somebody had earlier of using smoke to hide them after they did some spotting. It's problematic because if they don't have smokers then they can't do smoke (apart from the crew bailing and then smoking). I understood what you meant by candles. I also sometimes refer to 'smoke grenades' or any smoke weapon as a 'smoker'.

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Post #: 13
- 6/30/2003 11:17:18 PM   
runes


Posts: 107
Joined: 1/15/2001
Status: offline 		i was all hooked on CC3: Vietnam mod for quite a while, played it religiously.

so then, a friend and i start playing (cc4 possibly) online a few times, and, well, i'm still in Nam mode....

so, i see this building i want, (normally i'd have my SOG teams ready) and i rush it... of course, i get obliterated.... so, i dropped a bunch of smoke, laid up a nice corridor, and the remaining few units could escape....

another time, we were playing (possibly CC5) and i had him somewhat surrounded... but, his units outnumbered and outgunned be... mostly armoured vs my reserves or conscript infantry. but, needless to say, a few nice corridors of smoke, and a few advance/retreat tactics, with heavy concentration on slicing attacks from either side reduced most of his armor to rubble. i lost the battle, but it was a valiant fight, but, i was able to storm back through with a very healthy BG.

i also remember springing an ambush in Western Front mod... i was advancing along a road, when i ran into a lot of confusion, my infantry got tied up and my tanks, let open started taking fire... so, i decided to confuse him back, i lobbed smoke every which way, which allowed just enough time for me to slip in some reserves/scouts that were bringing up the rear/flanks, stall or tie up the bad guys enough for me to pin them down with rifle teams, and then use the scouts to snoop out A/T teams or guns.


there was this map in the cc4 campaign, it was one of my favourites. dunno how, but i got isolated, i couldnt reinforce with any of my stronger BGs as they were working on the breakthrough... so, it was this armored unit (mostly medium tanks) against my one unit, which had 1 (maybe 2) AT guns, and maybe 1 light, MAYBE medium tank. weak infantry. but anyway, not much of a defense, no real match for an armored BG.

but, i held out. wow, that was a fantastic battle. so many times smoke would save my life, i'd plunk it down in front of tanks (if my AT gun wasnt strong enough) and rape it with my infantry (who, by the 4th or 5th battle were pretty much adept at taking out tanks... there were dead tanks littered across the map... im sure they could have taken out a Tiger or two if pressed)

so, in short, smoke rules. use it in retreat, use it to confuse, use it to direct assaults, use it to make pincer attacks, block heavy guns or pesky mgs or at teams.

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Post #: 14
- 6/30/2003 11:22:24 PM   
runes


Posts: 107
Joined: 1/15/2001
Status: offline 		curious. one thing though that has always bothered me is... well, the inability to just shoot.

so many times the AI or a friend has put up smoke in front of an AT gun... and of course my tank is in direct LOS of the gun (and the smoke) and of course, in real life, i'd just shoot through the smoke... of course, you can sort of area fire, as long as it's green infront of the smoke you can lay down a shell or two, maybe get lucky... but, i wish i could lob shells through it... screw LOS

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Post #: 15
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