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Naval Support doesn't show up - 4/20/2019 6:40:53 PM

Balou

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The 3rd RAN Base Force at Xmas Island, IO, provides 50 naval support (upper pic), but it doesn't show (lower pic). Do I have naval support or not ?. Port is size 3.

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RE: Naval Support doesn't show up - 4/20/2019 6:50:54 PM

BillBrown

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In the patch notes is this item:

48. Fix for ports with no potential to show 0 naval support/ shore parties

I do think you have some, but I am unsure.

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RE: Naval Support doesn't show up - 4/20/2019 6:53:21 PM

rustysi

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This in fact used to work, but somewhere in there the result you see crept into the code. It happens in bases that start with a port=SPS(0). So even when the base is built up it'll never show NS.

It happens to both sides and I don't remember the exact 'patch' (although I think its the latest beta). If that's true I'd still recommend using the 'beta' as it fixes at least one very significant item. That is the late game ability of the Allies to unrep completely while at sea. They need this to perform those multi-day bombardments and such, that are required late game.

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RE: Naval Support doesn't show up - 4/20/2019 7:01:01 PM

Balou

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ref.patch: I am running the 1.8.11.26a. Is it the latest ?

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RE: Naval Support doesn't show up - 4/20/2019 7:10:42 PM

rustysi

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I think there's 11.26b, IIRC. I'll check when I can get into my game, or someone else will chime in. Either way it appears the result will be the same (for the port), except I think the 'fix' for the unrep is in 'b'. Read the patch notes to verify.

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RE: Naval Support doesn't show up - 4/20/2019 7:22:47 PM

btd64

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Look in the tech support part of this forum, in the stickied part for the public beta. Version 1126b is in the first post. Download and install....GP

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RE: Naval Support doesn't show up - 4/20/2019 7:25:25 PM

rustysi

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Thanks, GP.

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RE: Naval Support doesn't show up - 4/20/2019 7:27:20 PM

btd64

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No problem....GP

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RE: Naval Support doesn't show up - 4/20/2019 8:18:29 PM

bradfordkay

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This problem must have manifested in one of the patches. I am running the last official patch, 1.7.11.24, and on an island with a 1(0) port the naval support inherent in the base unit does appear on the base screen.

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RE: Naval Support doesn't show up - 4/20/2019 9:32:17 PM

HansBolter

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The bug crept back in. I'm running the latest beta patch and still have this issue.

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RE: Naval Support doesn't show up - 4/22/2019 11:38:59 AM

zuluhour

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I will check my version as well, I thought I was on latest beta. I have the same issue at Cararvon and suspect
it will happen again at Exmouth. Aside from no naval support showing on the base screen, unloading is painfully
slow. I doubt they have been contributing. Shame, 30 odd squads screwing around in town while our radar sits
it the hold of a tramp steamer at the pier.

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Post #: 11

RE: Naval Support doesn't show up - 4/22/2019 12:15:51 PM

HansBolter

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I think the support is being provided, it is just not being reported.

In Babes there are Port and Fleet Base forces that have 108 and 432 Naval Support respectively.

In Scenario 40 Agrihan was enhanced by the designer to be a level 5 port with a Standard Potential value of 0 that would normally limit it to a level 3 port.

I put a Fleet Base Force in it and used it as my main port hub for the Big Blue Fleet's assault on Okinawa. It has continued as a main hub even after the main forward hub moved to Naha, which also now has a Fleet Base Force.

Agrihan definitely behaved as if it was benefiting from the presence of the 432 naval support, even though it wasn't being reported.

< Message edited by HansBolter -- 4/22/2019 12:17:07 PM >

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RE: Naval Support doesn't show up - 4/22/2019 4:43:13 PM

rustysi

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quote:

ORIGINAL: bradfordkay

This problem must have manifested in one of the patches. I am running the last official patch, 1.7.11.24, and on an island with a 1(0) port the naval support inherent in the base unit does appear on the base screen.

Yeah, I'm pretty sure it reared its ugly head in one of the beta's right before MichaelM was pulled. I'm pretty sure he was repairing another problem when this one crept in. Again its not that big a deal, really just an annoyance. Add to that the fix for the Allied unrep and I at least can live with it.

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RE: Naval Support doesn't show up - 4/22/2019 4:54:01 PM

BillBrown

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It was changed in the 1125.10 patch which got rolled up into the 1126a patch.

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RE: Naval Support doesn't show up - 4/23/2019 8:41:47 AM

Balou

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quote:

ORIGINAL: HansBolter

I think the support is being provided, it is just not being reported.

As can be seen below it took 1 week to unload 16000 t in an undamaged port size 3 with 50 naval support. I can't believe it.

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< Message edited by Balou -- 4/23/2019 8:42:28 AM >

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RE: Naval Support doesn't show up - 4/23/2019 11:23:26 AM

HansBolter

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50 Naval Support is a drop in the bucket that will have a marginal impact at best.

Level 3 is a minimal port size that many late war radars will not even unload at.

Level 3 ports handle 11,250 cargo points.

Naval support adds 10 points of cargo handling per support point.

Your 50 Naval Support increased your cargo handling from 11,250 to 11,750.

A level 4 port handles 18,750 cargo. To increase a level 3 port to a level 4 capacity via naval support you would need 750 points.

Take a close look at the Port Rearm table in the manual to get a feel for how much naval support needs to be added to any given port size to enable it to replenish ammunition that couldn't be replenished otherwise and you will see the amounts of Naval Support required are considerable.

< Message edited by HansBolter -- 4/23/2019 11:32:50 AM >

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RE: Naval Support doesn't show up - 4/23/2019 1:30:33 PM

Balou

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Thanks for clarifying. I obviously overestimated naval support. Thought it could compensate for port size.

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RE: Naval Support doesn't show up - 4/23/2019 2:37:09 PM

Dili

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quote:

ORIGINAL: HansBolter

50 Naval Support is a drop in the bucket that will have a marginal impact at best.

Level 3 is a minimal port size that many late war radars will not even unload at.

Level 3 ports handle 11,250 cargo points.

Naval support adds 10 points of cargo handling per support point.

Your 50 Naval Support increased your cargo handling from 11,250 to 11,750.

A level 4 port handles 18,750 cargo. To increase a level 3 port to a level 4 capacity via naval support you would need 750 points.

Take a close look at the Port Rearm table in the manual to get a feel for how much naval support needs to be added to any given port size to enable it to replenish ammunition that couldn't be replenished otherwise and you will see the amounts of Naval Support required are considerable.

I am not remembering of an item cargo limit specified in manual for unloading, is there a list of it?
Also is the unload vs load 1:1 or is there a different relation?

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RE: Naval Support doesn't show up - 4/23/2019 3:32:37 PM

HansBolter

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Dili

quote:

ORIGINAL: HansBolter

50 Naval Support is a drop in the bucket that will have a marginal impact at best.

Level 3 is a minimal port size that many late war radars will not even unload at.

Level 3 ports handle 11,250 cargo points.

Naval support adds 10 points of cargo handling per support point.

Your 50 Naval Support increased your cargo handling from 11,250 to 11,750.

A level 4 port handles 18,750 cargo. To increase a level 3 port to a level 4 capacity via naval support you would need 750 points.

Take a close look at the Port Rearm table in the manual to get a feel for how much naval support needs to be added to any given port size to enable it to replenish ammunition that couldn't be replenished otherwise and you will see the amounts of Naval Support required are considerable.

I am not remembering of an item cargo limit specified in manual for unloading, is there a list of it?
Also is the unload vs load 1:1 or is there a different relation?

It isn't an Item limit it is an Item Size limit. I don't have the hard data. Alfred has likely provided it in the past in other threads.

Most experienced players know not to try unloading Radar devices at level 2 ports from Transport TFs, but I have also recently experienced it with level 3 ports in '45.

In the screenshot the TF had been sitting for four days since unloading all other devices before I noticed it and investigated to discover it was radar devices holding things up. There are four other ships in the TF also carrying radar devices that had not unloaded. I am invading Kyushu and this is a back water area, so I didn't take note of it at first. The TF has since been sent back to Singkwang to unload the radars at a level 4 port.

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RE: Naval Support doesn't show up - 4/23/2019 3:35:33 PM

BBfanboy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Dili

quote:

ORIGINAL: HansBolter

50 Naval Support is a drop in the bucket that will have a marginal impact at best.

Level 3 is a minimal port size that many late war radars will not even unload at.

Level 3 ports handle 11,250 cargo points.

Naval support adds 10 points of cargo handling per support point.

Your 50 Naval Support increased your cargo handling from 11,250 to 11,750.

A level 4 port handles 18,750 cargo. To increase a level 3 port to a level 4 capacity via naval support you would need 750 points.

Take a close look at the Port Rearm table in the manual to get a feel for how much naval support needs to be added to any given port size to enable it to replenish ammunition that couldn't be replenished otherwise and you will see the amounts of Naval Support required are considerable.

I am not remembering of an item cargo limit specified in manual for unloading, is there a list of it?
Also is the unload vs load 1:1 or is there a different relation?

Just as a port has a max docking limit (total) for displacement tonnage of ships docked, it has another limit for maximum sized single ship. Unloading also has a limit for unloading a single large item. I am not sure of the mechanism around determining something can be unloaded over a three day period though (I have seen that happen). It could be a die roll thing that ranges from success to failure and loss of the item.

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RE: Naval Support doesn't show up - 4/23/2019 3:40:52 PM

HansBolter

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Balou

Thanks for clarifying. I obviously overestimated naval support. Thought it could compensate for port size.

Nothing is panacea for the flyspeck islands with limited potential base sizes, but every little bit does help.

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RE: Naval Support doesn't show up - 4/23/2019 4:52:38 PM

Dili

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Hans ImprovedCH is 120 load cost so yeah an heavy item. Thanks BB, if someone finds any hard data about unload/load time for device size pls post.

Might also be related to the ship size? small tonnage => small derrick capability sort of thing?

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RE: Naval Support doesn't show up - 4/23/2019 9:25:19 PM

BBfanboy

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I haven't seen any additional offload issues because of small ship size. The issue is usually with the larger ships that cannot dock. The offloading facilities are presumed to be dockside cranes and lighters (barges) for undocked ships. That brings to mind another potential assist - if the port or TF has enough supply to create barges (LCTs), they will assist with offloading (at least during amphib invasions they do). I have not seen their level of assistance quantified.
Can't hurt to try - the barges can always be returned to the pools if they don't help.

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RE: Naval Support doesn't show up - 4/24/2019 4:27:48 AM

bradfordkay

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Balou

Thanks for clarifying. I obviously overestimated naval support. Thought it could compensate for port size.

Yeah, it's kinda like a fancy pickup truck in that respect...

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RE: Naval Support doesn't show up - 4/24/2019 7:32:21 AM

CaptBeefheart

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Those 30 Nav Support units the USN gets are usually good enough to unload radar sets. If you find a radar not unloading, fly one of those in with Catalinas or other flying boats.

Cheers,
CB

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RE: Naval Support doesn't show up - 4/24/2019 3:24:59 PM

Dili

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You can't put a 120 load into an aircraft, only up to 7 (drop) 9 (landing)

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RE: Naval Support doesn't show up - 4/24/2019 4:59:54 PM

HansBolter

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Dili

You can't put a 120 load into an aircraft, only up to 7 (drop) 9 (landing)

Pretty sure he meant fly the Nav support in, not the radar.

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RE: Naval Support doesn't show up - 4/24/2019 5:21:38 PM

Dili

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not sure

quote:

one of those

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RE: Naval Support doesn't show up - 4/24/2019 8:32:16 PM

BBfanboy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Dili

not sure

quote:

one of those

USN Port Service Detachments, lettered A through F. Each has 30 NS and 10 AS. I use them at dot bases to offload the initial supply and units bringing in engineers to start building stuff. A couple of APDs (in FT or Amphib mode, but NOT Transport mode) can bring the unit in efficiently with a few supplies to start them off. Then comes an xAKL in amphib mode to offload supply slowly, but, with the Port Service there, significantly faster than without them.

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RE: Naval Support doesn't show up - 4/25/2019 3:11:15 AM

CaptBeefheart

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quote:

ORIGINAL: HansBolter

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dili

You can't put a 120 load into an aircraft, only up to 7 (drop) 9 (landing)

Pretty sure he meant fly the Nav support in, not the radar.