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RE: Notes from a Small Island - 4/29/2019 12:58:34 AM

HansBolter

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I'm playing a modded game based on Babes, but I think most if the additional stuff went to the Jap side so my scenario Allied OOB may be at least close to yours. I'm nearing the end of October '45.

Over the next few months you will start to see very heavy transfers of ground and air from Europe. The air buildup is pretty massive. More bomber squadrons than fighter.

Large production numbers kick in on P51Hs allowing you to upgrade many P47N squadrons that are stretched thin. B17G squadrons start arriving in numbers and high production kicks in allowing you to switch over many B24J squadrons that are stretched thin.

Brits start getting Lancasters that drop 4,000 and 12,000 pound bombs and finally in November, just a few days away for me, P80 shooting Stars come on line.

I haven't even touched on First Army or British 10 Corps troops, or CVB Midway.

You get a MASSIVE shot in the arm over the next few months.

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Post #: 4141

RE: Notes from a Small Island - 4/29/2019 2:02:40 AM

Canoerebel

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I'm beginning to see that influx, but there are some oddities about it:

1) New Brit Spitfire squadrons arrived in the United Kingdom...meaning they have to off-map move to Aden, then shipment to India...which takes weeks. Just one of those things - they should be able to fly from base to base and arrive in India in about three days, but that's the game for you.

2) Two Free French Spit VIII squadrons just arrived in UK....with no replacement pilots at all. Zero. None. Ever. 30 planes. 30 pilots.

It is fun to see new stuff coming in, like French destroyers and cruisers, and I'm looking forward to the B-17Gs coming online. And if the P-51H indeed can cover the thin pools, that'll help a lot.

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RE: Notes from a Small Island - 4/29/2019 2:04:55 AM

Canoerebel

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quote:

ORIGINAL: BillBrown

Just a quick note. I do not know what types of ships you are using for bombardments, but I have found that CAs and CLs tend to have better results. I think it is because they have more ammo to shoot.

You may be right. Several times, small DD TFs bombarded Sapporo with dramatically larger results than when bigger ships bombard. Weirdness.

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Post #: 4143

RE: Notes from a Small Island - 4/29/2019 2:29:00 AM

BBfanboy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

quote:

ORIGINAL: BillBrown

Just a quick note. I do not know what types of ships you are using for bombardments, but I have found that CAs and CLs tend to have better results. I think it is because they have more ammo to shoot.

You may be right. Several times, small DD TFs bombarded Sapporo with dramatically larger results than when bigger ships bombard. Weirdness.

DDs will also go closer to shore than BBs. BBs usually stop at 6000 yards. DDs can go as close as 1000 yards.

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RE: Notes from a Small Island - 4/29/2019 12:12:16 PM

HansBolter

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Yea there are a few reinforcements that arrive in Britain.

Most of the American ground forces are arriving in San Fran in my game except for a few of those really great Corp Engineer Groups with 81 AV of combat engineers that arrived in UK. I think I have about 8-10 of those now. I had time to ship the ones arriving in UK to Panama and then to Agrihan in the Marianas, which is my forward receiving hub for units inbound to participate in the invasion of Japan. The First Army ground troops have made it to Agrihan by mid October and are prepping for targets on Honshu.

Most air reinforcements are arriving in East Coast and Canada for me.

The Brits and Canadians are getting ground troop reinforcements in Vancouver that I am using to finally start taking the Kuriles.

I'm playing with + or - 60 day variations on reinforcements so some of mine have entry dates after the scenario ends on March 31st, 1946. At a certain point in time reinforcements will simply run out of the time needed to make it to the battlefield.

I have so many divisions cueing up for use in Japan that I am now reassessing some and deciding to go after back water bases I had bypassed.

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RE: Notes from a Small Island - 4/29/2019 1:37:11 PM

Canoerebel

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I'm overdo to post updates for the game. I'll try to do so today or tonight.

The hindrance has been the complexity of the turns. Instead of there being a very tight focus on one small area, as was the case with Shikuka for so long, the war has spread out from the Kuriles to Singapore, with a few other areas heating up too. The turns are taking forever and a day, not just the countless clicking but also intricate maneuvers on land, sea and air.

I used to say that 1942, when everything was so precarious, was the most fun year of the war. I no longer think so. Each year is as fun as any other, they're just different. Managing the massive Allied OOB and ops in 1945 is a heckuva lot of fun.

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Post #: 4146

RE: Notes from a Small Island - 4/29/2019 4:30:24 PM

Bif1961

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I actually mentioned this in the other side of this AAR. I think that the Allies reinforcements from Europe should be quicken up as an option that might cost additional VPs and/or PPs. The Allies had a massive force sitting in Europe, Middle east and African, let alone still training in the US and on the ways. They were held for the planned landings on the Home Islands and most of their equipment that they had in Europe was left there, or destroyed. I am talking about planes, tanks, trucks not ships. Just a point of interest not a complaint.

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RE: Notes from a Small Island - 4/29/2019 5:15:46 PM

BBfanboy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bif1961

I actually mentioned this in the other side of this AAR. I think that the Allies reinforcements from Europe should be quicken up as an option that might cost additional VPs and/or PPs. The Allies had a massive force sitting in Europe, Middle east and African, let alone still training in the US and on the ways. They were held for the planned landings on the Home Islands and most of their equipment that they had in Europe was left there, or destroyed. I am talking about planes, tanks, trucks not ships. Just a point of interest not a complaint.

I think a lot of that equipment was left in Europe to keep the Russians honest(er).

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RE: Notes from a Small Island - 4/30/2019 1:15:58 AM

CaptBeefheart

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I always figured getting stuff in Europe represented a design decision to allow you to take the Suez Canal route if that suited your strategic needs. I would hope they factored in the time necessary to reach the front lines.

Cheers,
CB

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Post #: 4149

RE: Notes from a Small Island - 4/30/2019 2:19:42 AM

Canoerebel

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6/23/45 to 7/1/45

The Allies continue to advance methodically with little opposition from the enemy except in the air war. Lots of fighting, some very hard, lots of important movement underway, and always the lurking specter of leaving an opening for Erik to strike. At this very moment, he has the best chance he's had since I stepped in.

RN Death Star: RN Death Star finally moved into the South China Sea yesterday, after Allied bombers had neutralized Singers and Johore airfields. This TF is moving north, hoping to meet up with DS somewhere south of Formosa in a week. RN DS is strong but not enough to face KB. Until two days ago, a lot of enemy carriers were accounted for in ports in southern Honshu. Now half of those are gone. So I'm nervous. Very nervous. Always nervous. Tomorrow will be the most harrowing day, as RN DS moves across sea towards Saigon and thus, for this one day, not close to friendly LRCAP. Gulp.

Malaya: Allied army at Johore tried a probing deliberate attack about four days ago. It came off at 1:2, resulted in more IJA combat squads destroyed but 5x Allied combat squads disabled (about 500). The enemy garrison is mostly mixed brigades, and Erik is cycling them in and out of Singers to give them rest. Allied bombers are working over the two airfields against meager or nil opposition. I don't have any expectations of closing this campaign until substantial reinforcements arrive, probably following Russian activation or the Allies taking control of all of western China, from the Viet border to Shanghai. That's possible in the next two months.

Death Star: Departed it's long patrol station at the mouth of the Yangtze today to make towards RN DS. DS spent two days in port, replenishing aircraft numbers and giving airframes some rest.

China: Shanghai airfield is mostly closed and Hangchow fairly damaged. Erik is using two big airfields inland. On the ground, this sector (this "Arnhem") is stable. To the west, near the Viet border, a 6000k AV Allied army will cross the river tomorrow to attack Nanning. There were 75k IJ troops there yesterday, but apparently down to 50k today. I hope Erik does withdraw. The next base, Liuchow, in in open terrain, so he can't stand there. At that point, the terrain opens and additional advance vectors come into play, as the Allies will work towards Changsha and/or Canton area. This attack tomorrow is key and will determine short-term Allied strategy here.

Air War: Very, very hard. Today, for instance, massive Allied 4EB nighttime strike at 7k met modest enemy fighters and scored about 300 points...at the cost of about 25 Superforts. My target selection has been pretty good, but enemy CAP and flak is very tough. The Allies conducted a sustained campaign against Nagasaki last week that was fairly successful but nevertheless pretty costly due to enemy fighters. My pools are zilch. Hard to fight offensively or defensively when the enemy air corps is considerably stronger in terms of aircraft and pilot quality. Or that's how it seems. Nevertheless, the Allies have been advancing.

Oz: Little Allied landings near Timor taking dot bases for PBY patrols. This is part of the plan to get search arcs over the balance of enemy territory in the DEI for the end game - shutting down available ports.

Reinforcements/Supply/Fuel: At some point fairly soon, the Allies must bring in a lot of ships. A plan is in place but the trigger won't be pulled for a bit.

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RE: Notes from a Small Island - 4/30/2019 2:26:39 AM

Canoerebel

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Johore Bharu: Screenshot of the Allied probing deliberate attack a couple of turns back.

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RE: Notes from a Small Island - 4/30/2019 2:35:55 AM

Canoerebel

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Singers Region: Japanese are largely suppressed now in this region. I considered using RN DS to move on Palembang and Java and Borneo, but that's of secondary important to rendezvousing with DS for reasons I can't go into right now. Later, though, Allied carriers will participate in actions vs. Philippines, Borneo and Java. (All of this assuming KB doesn't descend and do awful things over the next few turns.)

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Post #: 4152

RE: Notes from a Small Island - 4/30/2019 2:46:48 AM

Canoerebel

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China: Key attack at Nanning tomorrow.

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Post #: 4153

RE: Notes from a Small Island - 4/30/2019 12:24:01 PM

mind_messing

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quote:

Air War: Very, very hard. Today, for instance, massive Allied 4EB nighttime strike at 7k met modest enemy fighters and scored about 300 points...at the cost of about 25 Superforts. My target selection has been pretty good, but enemy CAP and flak is very tough. The Allies conducted a sustained campaign against Nagasaki last week that was fairly successful but nevertheless pretty costly due to enemy fighters. My pools are zilch. Hard to fight offensively or defensively when the enemy air corps is considerably stronger in terms of aircraft and pilot quality. Or that's how it seems. Nevertheless, the Allies have been advancing.

If your strategy isn't working, change your strategy.

Fighting him in terms of number of planes in the pools is a losing proposition given that Obvert almost certainly has planned for the late game.

Given that, going after factories isn't going to get the outcome that you're looking for.

Instead of going for factories, why not explore the bottleneck at the other end of the system?

He can have infinite numbers of planes in the pool, but there's a maximum number of planes that actually fly. That number is determined by the number of squadrons on map, and they're limited in the number of replacements (12 planes) they can take every week (?).

Rather than break his air power by factory bombing, you need to break his air force by destroying the combat power of his squadrons.

Having 200 Franks in the pool doesn't matter if squadrons can:
A - Only draw 12 replacement planes per week.
B - Need two weeks downtime to recover shattered morale.

The checklist to do this is very simple, and you can systematically apply it to every major airbase on the Home Islands.

1. Recon heavily for three days prior to a raid.
2. Set all (I'm talking hundreds) 4E bombers to night airbase attack on a single target at 8k feet. This maximizes damage, while keeps you out of balloon and IJ light flak envelopes. FWIW your current attack altitude of 7k is within range of the omnipresent IJ 25mm AA gun and probably accounts for a large part of your losses.
3. Night CAP won't make a dent beyond the first few raids, and will smash the airbase.
4. Send in the best fighter squadrons on day-time sweep to catch the stragglers and outnumbered bleeding CAP.
5. Rinse and repeat.

The killer with this strategy is that airframe pools don't matter. You win because his squadron morale tanks into well below the halfway mark, and they become operationally ineffective. A Frank squadron with 49 planes and 10 morale is useless and will perform poorly in combat.

The solution to that from Obverts position is one of two options:
A - Grin and bear it, and send squadrons into battle with low morale and much higher losses VS sweeps.
B - Reshuffle his air-groups to rotate squadrons in and out of battle to attempt to recover morale.

Either solution is a win for you as it decreases the effectiveness of the IJ air power.

Like I said, if what you're doing isn't working, change what you're doing.

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RE: Notes from a Small Island - 4/30/2019 12:55:24 PM

Canoerebel

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Thanks for the thoughtful suggestion, Mind Messing, but House Rules don't allow it. Maximum of 50 bombers against airfield or port targets at night.

There's also a House Rule against strat bombing in China, which prevented me from targeting his industry there.

So I'm hamstrung in a lot of ways. When I stepped in, I thought that a successful invasion of Sikhalin would be the key to victory, giving me big airfields in which to engage in strat bombing. But the combination of House Rules and the power of his fighter corps and flak has limited what I can do and make the raids about as costly as they are effective.

I do occasionally use those missions and have been very successful on rare occasions that I caught Erik unprepared, as at his big airfields in China. But over the Home Islands, a few night fighters and flak easily handle 50 bombers (or the lesser number that usually make it through).

My strategy isn't static. I change targets, altitude, daytime, nighttime, etc, and generally try to "gang up" in numbers that have a realistic chance of overwhelming him at a point.

< Message edited by Canoerebel -- 4/30/2019 1:00:27 PM >

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RE: Notes from a Small Island - 4/30/2019 1:44:47 PM

Canoerebel

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I hope that explanation doesn't sound like complaining. I think the Allied plan was the right plan - to close on Japan ASAP. And I think the plan was successful beyond expectations (in no small measure because Erik counterattacked so vigorously and didn't quite succeed).

I'm pleased with how the game is going. By my measures, I've done pretty darned well considering the start date (Erik had 2.5 years to fine tune his defenses), the house rules, and the quality of my opponent.

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RE: Notes from a Small Island - 4/30/2019 1:49:46 PM

mind_messing

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

Thanks for the thoughtful suggestion, Mind Messing, but House Rules don't allow it. Maximum of 50 bombers against airfield or port targets at night.

There's also a House Rule against strat bombing in China, which prevented me from targeting his industry there.

So I'm hamstrung in a lot of ways. When I stepped in, I thought that a successful invasion of Sikhalin would be the key to victory, giving me big airfields in which to engage in strat bombing. But the combination of House Rules and the power of his fighter corps and flak has limited what I can do and make the raids about as costly as they are effective.

I do occasionally use those missions and have been very successful on rare occasions that I caught Erik unprepared, as at his big airfields in China. But over the Home Islands, a few night fighters and flak easily handle 50 bombers (or the lesser number that usually make it through).

My strategy isn't static. I change targets, altitude, daytime, nighttime, etc, and generally try to "gang up" in numbers that have a realistic chance of overwhelming him at a point.

This, in a nutshell, is why I don't like house rules. It's a crutch and it restricts flexibility. You're in a position where you're unable to fully deploy assets due to perceived issues with the game engine.

I'd discuss changing them. It's arbitrary and trying to adjust for a non-existent issue with the game engine.

I know what it's like from Obvert's side, so I can understand his resistance. Less so for the damage and more so because you need to prioritize day/night CAP. However, it's a fact of war that just because they're isn't any daylight doesn't mean the war stops.

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RE: Notes from a Small Island - 4/30/2019 2:06:21 PM

Canoerebel

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Obvert has jealously guarded the House Rules throughout, bringing them up on the few occasions I committed violations (once I bombed an industry in China, and once too many bombers flew a night mission vs. Sapporo).

Since I stepped into the game in '44, I don't want to ask for HR changes. Moreover, it really doesn't matter. I'm enjoying the game and I have a strong feeling as to how I'm doing that allows for the impact of the HRs.

But I agree with your larger point. HRs have all kinds of powerful unintended consequences. The less, the better.

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RE: Notes from a Small Island - 4/30/2019 3:25:45 PM

HansBolter

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The fastest way on the planet to shut down his massively defended airbases is naval bombardment.

Your combined US and Brit Death Star should be strong enough to be able to stand on station providing cover for the starts of the runs. The key is setting a home base to return to that paths through the air cover envelope of the DS. Or, stationing the DS close enough to provide cover over the target and remain on station returning to the DS hex the next turn and rearming from the Armament Replenishment TF with the AEs.

I would have developed that island you took near Okinawa into a support base for bombardment runs.

Now that I have secure bases surrounding Kyushu everything as far up on the Island of Honshu as Kure has been shut down.
As soon as I secure the bases on Shikoku I'll start making runs on Osaka and Nagoya.

< Message edited by HansBolter -- 4/30/2019 4:01:09 PM >

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RE: Notes from a Small Island - 4/30/2019 3:43:57 PM

Canoerebel

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The two bases between Formosa and Okinawa have been built up. :)

I can bombard the bases south of the Home Islands, but that won't do any good 'cause Erik doesn't have any aircraft there.

Trying to bombard the Home Island bases isn't worth it yet. Erik can easily move his aircraft around, his own defenses (mines and combat ships) remain stout, and a blunder there would cost a fleet or two or six. He has thousands of elite aircraft with multiple interlocking well-supplied large airfields.

There will come a time when bombardments against Home Island airfields are worth the risk. This isn't that time.

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RE: Notes from a Small Island - 4/30/2019 3:48:42 PM

mind_messing

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

The two bases between Formosa and Okinawa have been built up. :)

I can bombard the bases south of the Home Islands, but that won't do any good 'cause Erik doesn't have any aircraft there.

Trying to bombard the Home Island bases isn't worth it yet. Erik can easily move his aircraft around, his own defenses (mines and combat ships) remain stout, and a blunder there would cost a fleet or two or six. He has thousands of elite aircraft with multiple interlocking well-supplied large airfields.

There will come a time when bombardments against Home Island airfields are worth the risk. This isn't that time.

Fletcher DD TF's are your friend here. Fast, well armed, working torpedoes and a dynamite AA package. They can get in and out in the night phase, and if they're unlucky enough to get caught by aircraft in the daylight, they'll do well against just about anything.

Don't underestimate the risk/reward here either. Fletchers are cheap and plentiful. Minefields are risky when they are undetected, but once they're spotted they're much less nasty. CD guns are a problem, but they're static and you should know where they are by now. There's a broad sweep of southern Honshu that's open to the ocean that needs to feel the rain of 5in shells.

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RE: Notes from a Small Island - 4/30/2019 3:52:40 PM

Canoerebel

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Fletchers aren't cheap and plentiful after years of tough fighting against an opponent the caliber of Obvert. :)

I have a massive fleet anchored in the Yangtze River surrounded by 20,000 enemy aircraft and who knows how many combat vessels of all makes and models. I'm using my DDs and some CLs on bombardment runs, but I have to parcel them out carefully. Already there are a bunch disbanded at Tungchow with moderate to heavy damage.

When DDs aren't as precious, or when the risk is more manageable, I've used them on BB runs. The hits on Sapporo were particularly effective.

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RE: Notes from a Small Island - 4/30/2019 4:06:22 PM

HansBolter

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After Hong Kong, Shanghai has the best shipyard on the Chinese coast.

Securing one of the two should be a major objective.
Don't just bypass Hong Kong on your overland drive to link up.
Assign sufficient force to secure it.

Shanghai is particularly convenient for sustaining an effort against the HI.

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RE: Notes from a Small Island - 4/30/2019 4:42:51 PM

Canoerebel

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Yes, that's why the Allies targeted the Shanghai region with TNNBT.

An Allied army is pointed at Hong Kong, but whether it goes there is still under evaluation. Big Allied armies are currently besieging Singapore and Shanghai (well, not quite there yet). I need to get the Allied army now entering China to the Shanghai region. Getting bogged down in yet another big siege may not be feasible or helpful. I do have the shipyard at Saigon, which is big enough to help with subs and DDs.

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RE: Notes from a Small Island - 4/30/2019 4:45:53 PM

Lokasenna

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

Fletchers aren't cheap and plentiful after years of tough fighting against an opponent the caliber of Obvert. :)

Gearings, then!

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RE: Notes from a Small Island - 4/30/2019 4:50:38 PM

BBfanboy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

Fletchers aren't cheap and plentiful after years of tough fighting against an opponent the caliber of Obvert. :)

Gearings, then!

Allen M. Sumner class first.

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RE: Notes from a Small Island - 4/30/2019 4:53:33 PM

Lecivius

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Naw, get one of THESE destroyers!

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RE: Notes from a Small Island - 4/30/2019 4:54:09 PM

Canoerebel

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Yeah, when they start coming in. Right now, all the reinforcements are Sumner class, with 400 AA points!

Readers who haven't gone deeply into games - say late '44 or '45 - might be surprised to learn that the flow of APAs, AKAs, and Fletchers stops entirely, I think in the autumn of '44. After that - nothing! So if you enter the late war assuming the Allied reinforcements just keep coming...ouch! Even Allied ground unit reinforcements with AV largely disappear by the autumn of '44. The last good unit to arrive is 8th Indian Division in early '45. Then about all your going to get is lots of squad replacements when Germany falls and big engineering units. By the summer of '45, some Free French units show up. And eventually there's more. But for a long, long time, the spigot is dry.

Now, that's not decisive. By then the Allies already have so much that they should be capable of waging war effectively and tenaciously. But the idea of endless reinforcements is a myth.

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RE: Notes from a Small Island - 4/30/2019 5:00:48 PM

mind_messing

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

Fletchers aren't cheap and plentiful after years of tough fighting against an opponent the caliber of Obvert. :)

I have a massive fleet anchored in the Yangtze River surrounded by 20,000 enemy aircraft and who knows how many combat vessels of all makes and models. I'm using my DDs and some CLs on bombardment runs, but I have to parcel them out carefully. Already there are a bunch disbanded at Tungchow with moderate to heavy damage.

When DDs aren't as precious, or when the risk is more manageable, I've used them on BB runs. The hits on Sapporo were particularly effective.

Then use the abundance of DE's and other warship types you get.

What's better, one bombardment from 9 16inch guns, or dozens of 3inch or 4inch buckshot? They make holes in runways either way.

20k aircraft might be what you see, but what you see and what's actually their capability can be quite different. Unless Obvert has converted every one of those squadrons to kamikaze (which he won't have), the actual strike aircraft are far, far fewer.

To be honest, I think that the real difficulty is that you've immediately adopted a siege mentality regarding the Shanghai operation, which I don't think is really the case. Now, I'm not party to all the info, but there's never been a case in military history where a defender hasn't stopped screaming for more assets.

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RE: Notes from a Small Island - 4/30/2019 5:05:22 PM

HansBolter

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The Sumner's upgrade to 851 AA, but sacrifice their torpedoes.

Fletchers upgrade to 786 AA, and lose half their torpedoes (IIRC)

Gearing's have 851 AA and no torpedoes (IIRC).

By the time the flow of new APAs and AKAs stops, combined with the plethora of LST's, LSM's and LCIs and not to forget the LSI(L)s you have sufficient assault lift capability to land 4-5 Armies.

Every time I need to move another Corps from Naha to Kumamoto I dial up a 100 ship balanced TF and hardly put a dent in the pool of ships.

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Hans

(in reply to Canoerebel)

Post #: 4170