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RE: Worst modern war film of all time - 4/30/2019 12:59:24 PM

Canoerebel

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There's room for many opinions here, and we are passionate about our movies, pro or con.

I don't like Thin Red Line, but others do. Obvert, for instance, is a fan, and I think his profession makes him a more insightful movie critic than a backwoods southern lawyer might be ("don't trust your soul to no backwoods southern lawyer....").

(in reply to HansBolter)

Post #: 91

RE: Worst modern war film of all time - 4/30/2019 1:10:26 PM

obvert

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

There's room for many opinions here, and we are passionate about our movies, pro or con.

I don't like Thin Red Line, but others do. Obvert, for instance, is a fan, and I think his profession makes him a more insightful movie critic than a backwoods southern lawyer might be ("don't trust your soul to no backwoods southern lawyer....").

Haha! I was keeping quiet, but I love that you remembered.

I do like Terrance Malick's early films a lot, (Badlands, Days of Heaven), but struggle with his sprawling later work. The Thin Red Line is somewhere between, and I like that it focuses on a potentially confused but insightful main character, an outsider who sees the environment of war as if from outside it while actually being in it. I don't mind inaccuracies since it's for me a timeless concept, more universally human than rooted in a particular history or period, even though it takes place in a WWII Pacific era. I also like that the cast includes so many great actors playing small parts well, happy to not be the center of attention, and Nick Nolte is a classic in this one.

It could be a Roman war film for all I care; I'm more interested in the fact he chose to create film characters noticing the world and wildlife around them in the middle of shock and trauma, moments of extreme peace surrounded by chaos. I've not been in war, but I've been in the world long enough to know that even big eventful moments in our life can be experienced so differently by different people in those situations.

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< Message edited by obvert -- 4/30/2019 1:36:26 PM >

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Post #: 92

RE: Worst modern war film of all time - 4/30/2019 1:55:17 PM

Canoerebel

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Real Red Tomoates

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Post #: 93

RE: Worst modern war film of all time - 4/30/2019 1:56:53 PM

mind_messing

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My understanding of Malick's work was that he does great films, when he has a strong editor. IIRC, there was a round-table discussion with a lot of the stars of TTRL and the consensus emerged that when Malick's work is managed by a strong editor, he gets a good film out. When it doesn't, the quality dips. TTRL was one of the latter, as a significant chunk of that film ended up on the cutting room floor.

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Post #: 94

RE: Worst modern war film of all time - 4/30/2019 2:11:08 PM

Jorge_Stanbury

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I think Thin Red line neither belongs to worst war movie nor best war movie

I would argue it is not even a war movie, but some philosophical movie set on a war theatre, I remember I liked it, but I won't see it again

(in reply to mind_messing)

Post #: 95

RE: Worst modern war film of all time - 4/30/2019 2:30:32 PM

Anachro

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I've stated my views on TTRL before and Jorge's view is probably most apt in my opinion. It isn't a war movie, but unlike Jorge I did not like the film on my initial viewing; like him, I won't be seeing it again.

I'm going to drift from war movies to historical TV shows and state that the HBO Rome series is awesome and I will forever be incredibly sad it was cut after 2 seasons (too costly, a GoT budget ahead of its time, not enough viewers to justify); and the second featured an incredibly reduced and quickened sequential state of events because they had to rush so much to get to a conclusion. Initially, the plan was many seasons telling a story from Caesar's civil war to the second triumvirate and that eventual civil war. Too bad.

Recently, I read Robert Harris' Cicero trilogy, a very good historical series tracing the downfall of the republic through Cicero's (or more accurately his slave and freedman Tiro's) eyes. I've also read many of Cicero's works, speeches, and his collected letters. An excellent man, a defender of liberty, and an amazing personality - I'd much like to see a new Roman movie or series on his life. Unfortunately, ancient history stuff (Rome, etc.) doesn't seem to be much in vogue in Hollywood at the moment.

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Post #: 96

RE: Worst modern war film of all time - 4/30/2019 2:38:25 PM

Apollo11

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Hi all,

quote:

ORIGINAL: HansBolter

Apollo 11 to each his own. In my not so humble opinion TRL was the worst war movie ever made.

Frankly, I can't even remember that there WERE any combat scenes.

All I can recall was that the entire movie was one extremely over long philosophical musing.

The combat scenes in the "Thin red line" are masterfully shot and they are quite lengthy!

Out of my head:

#1
First failed attack on enemy held hill (and bunkers)

#2
Second attack on the enemy held hill - this time successful - destruction of main enemy bunker

#3
Assault on enemy base - running battle and close quarters combat

Leo "Apollo11"

P.S.
Also please read the book - it is very different from the movie (the book is most definitively NOT "politically correct")!

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Post #: 97

RE: Worst modern war film of all time - 4/30/2019 2:44:46 PM

Canoerebel

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It seems that some have the mental flexibility to appreciate a film apart from it's visual setting. Thus there are fans of Kelly's Heroes and The Thin Red Line, among others. They don't see them as war movies.

I'm stuck in a more literal and concrete world in which I cannot separate theme and setting. Thus movies like Cold Mountain, Dances with Wolves, and the two listed above, grate on my nerves. Cold and Dances would have much to commend them, too, if I could separate them from the settings.

(in reply to Apollo11)

Post #: 98

RE: Worst modern war film of all time - 4/30/2019 4:36:23 PM

BBfanboy

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I agree that Kelly's Heroes wasn't really about war, but I liked the movie as a comedic bank heist/treasure hunt using a tank as the quest horse.

The Thin Red Line literally put me to sleep with it's long, slow "nature" insertions. I read the book when I was a teenager and I remember a gritty story set in the Guadalcanal Campaign that featured both soldier and naval aviator characters. They were all green at the start of their journey and the book depicted their change from the innocence of youth to the grim kill-or-be-killed attitude to combat. There was not quarter given in RL Guadalcanal and no distracting sentimentality about beautiful nature and normal life. I don't recall any stuff about incompetent commanders seeking their own glory/promotion. I hated the movie because I could not see any of the book in it.

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Post #: 99

RE: Worst modern war film of all time - 4/30/2019 7:04:49 PM

Zorch

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quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

I agree that Kelly's Heroes wasn't really about war, but I liked the movie as a comedic bank heist/treasure hunt using a tank as the quest horse.

The Thin Red Line literally put me to sleep with it's long, slow "nature" insertions. I read the book when I was a teenager and I remember a gritty story set in the Guadalcanal Campaign that featured both soldier and naval aviator characters. They were all green at the start of their journey and the book depicted their change from the innocence of youth to the grim kill-or-be-killed attitude to combat. There was not quarter given in RL Guadalcanal and no distracting sentimentality about beautiful nature and normal life. I don't recall any stuff about incompetent commanders seeking their own glory/promotion. I hated the movie because I could not see any of the book in it.

The difference between the film and book is like that between Apocalypse Now and Heart of Darkness.

(in reply to BBfanboy)

Post #: 100

RE: Worst modern war film of all time - 4/30/2019 7:18:31 PM

AW1Steve

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I'm surprised that no one named "The Movie that Shall NOT Be Named".

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Post #: 101

RE: Worst modern war film of all time - 4/30/2019 7:25:16 PM

mind_messing

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quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

I agree that Kelly's Heroes wasn't really about war, but I liked the movie as a comedic bank heist/treasure hunt using a tank as the quest horse.

The Thin Red Line literally put me to sleep with it's long, slow "nature" insertions. I read the book when I was a teenager and I remember a gritty story set in the Guadalcanal Campaign that featured both soldier and naval aviator characters. They were all green at the start of their journey and the book depicted their change from the innocence of youth to the grim kill-or-be-killed attitude to combat. There was not quarter given in RL Guadalcanal and no distracting sentimentality about beautiful nature and normal life. I don't recall any stuff about incompetent commanders seeking their own glory/promotion. I hated the movie because I could not see any of the book in it.

In that case, the book you read was not The Thin Red Line, the characters all come from the same Army company.

(in reply to BBfanboy)

Post #: 102

RE: Worst modern war film of all time - 4/30/2019 7:59:24 PM

warspite1

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quote:

ORIGINAL: AW1Steve

I'm surprised that no one named "The Movie that Shall NOT Be Named".

warspite1

Pearl Harbor? Yes it's been mentioned once or twice....

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Post #: 103

RE: Worst modern war film of all time - 4/30/2019 8:03:45 PM

Lecivius

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Ack, he Named it!

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Post #: 104

RE: Worst modern war film of all time - 4/30/2019 8:10:26 PM

Zorch

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quote:

ORIGINAL: mind_messing

quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

I agree that Kelly's Heroes wasn't really about war, but I liked the movie as a comedic bank heist/treasure hunt using a tank as the quest horse.

The Thin Red Line literally put me to sleep with it's long, slow "nature" insertions. I read the book when I was a teenager and I remember a gritty story set in the Guadalcanal Campaign that featured both soldier and naval aviator characters. They were all green at the start of their journey and the book depicted their change from the innocence of youth to the grim kill-or-be-killed attitude to combat. There was not quarter given in RL Guadalcanal and no distracting sentimentality about beautiful nature and normal life. I don't recall any stuff about incompetent commanders seeking their own glory/promotion. I hated the movie because I could not see any of the book in it.

In that case, the book you read was not The Thin Red Line, the characters all come from the same Army company.

Are you thinking of Norman Mailer's The Naked and the Dead? I don't know if that's ever been filmed.

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Post #: 105

RE: Worst modern war film of all time - 4/30/2019 8:17:45 PM

AW1Steve

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Zorch

quote:

ORIGINAL: mind_messing

quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

I agree that Kelly's Heroes wasn't really about war, but I liked the movie as a comedic bank heist/treasure hunt using a tank as the quest horse.

The Thin Red Line literally put me to sleep with it's long, slow "nature" insertions. I read the book when I was a teenager and I remember a gritty story set in the Guadalcanal Campaign that featured both soldier and naval aviator characters. They were all green at the start of their journey and the book depicted their change from the innocence of youth to the grim kill-or-be-killed attitude to combat. There was not quarter given in RL Guadalcanal and no distracting sentimentality about beautiful nature and normal life. I don't recall any stuff about incompetent commanders seeking their own glory/promotion. I hated the movie because I could not see any of the book in it.

In that case, the book you read was not The Thin Red Line, the characters all come from the same Army company.

Are you thinking of Norman Mailer's The Naked and the Dead? I don't know if that's ever been filmed.

Actually it was in 1958.

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Post #: 106

RE: Worst modern war film of all time - 4/30/2019 8:40:38 PM

Zorch

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quote:

ORIGINAL: AW1Steve

quote:

ORIGINAL: Zorch

quote:

ORIGINAL: mind_messing

quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

I agree that Kelly's Heroes wasn't really about war, but I liked the movie as a comedic bank heist/treasure hunt using a tank as the quest horse.

The Thin Red Line literally put me to sleep with it's long, slow "nature" insertions. I read the book when I was a teenager and I remember a gritty story set in the Guadalcanal Campaign that featured both soldier and naval aviator characters. They were all green at the start of their journey and the book depicted their change from the innocence of youth to the grim kill-or-be-killed attitude to combat. There was not quarter given in RL Guadalcanal and no distracting sentimentality about beautiful nature and normal life. I don't recall any stuff about incompetent commanders seeking their own glory/promotion. I hated the movie because I could not see any of the book in it.

In that case, the book you read was not The Thin Red Line, the characters all come from the same Army company.

Are you thinking of Norman Mailer's The Naked and the Dead? I don't know if that's ever been filmed.

Actually it was in 1958.

Thanks, I'll check it out.

(in reply to AW1Steve)

Post #: 107

RE: Worst modern war film of all time - 4/30/2019 9:30:40 PM

BBfanboy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: mind_messing

quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

I agree that Kelly's Heroes wasn't really about war, but I liked the movie as a comedic bank heist/treasure hunt using a tank as the quest horse.

The Thin Red Line literally put me to sleep with it's long, slow "nature" insertions. I read the book when I was a teenager and I remember a gritty story set in the Guadalcanal Campaign that featured both soldier and naval aviator characters. They were all green at the start of their journey and the book depicted their change from the innocence of youth to the grim kill-or-be-killed attitude to combat. There was not quarter given in RL Guadalcanal and no distracting sentimentality about beautiful nature and normal life. I don't recall any stuff about incompetent commanders seeking their own glory/promotion. I hated the movie because I could not see any of the book in it.

In that case, the book you read was not The Thin Red Line, the characters all come from the same Army company.

There was a group of fighter pilots on a transport going to the Solomons who were nervous about subs. At one point someone thought they spotted a torpedo and everyone panicked, one of the pilots even pooped his pants. It was a false alarm. Later there was some descriptions of aerial combat and one of the newbie pilots (perhaps the one with the messy pants) beat a Japanese Ace on his tail by dropping flaps and landing gear to slow his fighter suddenly so the Zero overshot him and he could riddle it with his own guns.

Most of the book was indeed about the land battles on the fictitious "dancing elephant" ridge. If you did not see the other stuff I suspect you read a paperback abridged version of the book? I read a hardcover from the library.

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Post #: 108

RE: Worst modern war film of all time - 5/1/2019 1:07:43 AM

pontiouspilot

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Rome was wonderful...even more so if you had the version with historical sub-titles. In the same vein, if you were also a Deadwood fan they are releasing a movie at end of May to finally close off that truncated mini-series 12 years later.

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Post #: 109

RE: Worst modern war film of all time - 5/1/2019 1:32:22 AM

trojan58

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For truely terrible War Movies, it�s hard to find any worse than:

u 571 anf the movie that shall not be named

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Post #: 110

RE: Worst modern war film of all time - 5/1/2019 4:56:33 PM

Miller

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lecivius

Ack, he Named it!

Named what? PEARL HARBO(U)R?

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Post #: 111

RE: Worst modern war film of all time - 5/1/2019 9:12:47 PM

obvert

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quote:

ORIGINAL: pontiouspilot

Rome was wonderful...even more so if you had the version with historical sub-titles. In the same vein, if you were also a Deadwood fan they are releasing a movie at end of May to finally close off that truncated mini-series 12 years later.

Very cool. Deadwood is a classic.

Definitely a Rome fan too.

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Post #: 112

RE: Worst modern war film of all time - 5/2/2019 7:18:51 AM

Apollo11

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Hi all,

Strangely enough nobody mentioned the "fury" as really historically bad move except me...

IMHO the utter tactical stupidity depicted by both sides in that movie is almost unsurpassed... it surely looks good for big screen (i.e. "Hollywood") but historically it is plain stupid and 100% unrealistic...

Leo "Apollo11"

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Post #: 113

RE: Worst modern war film of all time - 5/2/2019 9:26:10 AM

jdsrae

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I�m with you on fury, far king ridiculous. figured you�d said it all but will publicly back you

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Post #: 114

RE: Worst modern war film of all time - 5/2/2019 12:33:08 PM

mind_messing

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quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: mind_messing

quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

I agree that Kelly's Heroes wasn't really about war, but I liked the movie as a comedic bank heist/treasure hunt using a tank as the quest horse.

The Thin Red Line literally put me to sleep with it's long, slow "nature" insertions. I read the book when I was a teenager and I remember a gritty story set in the Guadalcanal Campaign that featured both soldier and naval aviator characters. They were all green at the start of their journey and the book depicted their change from the innocence of youth to the grim kill-or-be-killed attitude to combat. There was not quarter given in RL Guadalcanal and no distracting sentimentality about beautiful nature and normal life. I don't recall any stuff about incompetent commanders seeking their own glory/promotion. I hated the movie because I could not see any of the book in it.

In that case, the book you read was not The Thin Red Line, the characters all come from the same Army company.

There was a group of fighter pilots on a transport going to the Solomons who were nervous about subs. At one point someone thought they spotted a torpedo and everyone panicked, one of the pilots even pooped his pants. It was a false alarm. Later there was some descriptions of aerial combat and one of the newbie pilots (perhaps the one with the messy pants) beat a Japanese Ace on his tail by dropping flaps and landing gear to slow his fighter suddenly so the Zero overshot him and he could riddle it with his own guns.

Most of the book was indeed about the land battles on the fictitious "dancing elephant" ridge. If you did not see the other stuff I suspect you read a paperback abridged version of the book? I read a hardcover from the library.

You've not recalled it exactly. C-for-Charlie watch some air-to-air combat as they disembark on to LCI's in the first chapter of the book. I think you've got the detailed air-to-air combat mixed up with another book with a similar setting.

Either that or the hardback is vastly different to the paperback, but I doubt that's the case.

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Post #: 115

RE: Worst modern war film of all time - 5/2/2019 12:40:33 PM

Yaab

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My favourite worst movie is "Battle of the Bulge", 1965.

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Post #: 116

RE: Worst modern war film of all time - 5/2/2019 12:55:15 PM

Lecivius

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Yaab

My favourite worst movie is "Battle of the Bulge", 1965.

What, are you kidding?!? Best one liner, ever!

"It can be done!"

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Post #: 117

RE: Worst modern war film of all time - 5/2/2019 1:36:51 PM

Macclan5

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I tend to agree with most the sentiments on this list....

In fairness the challenge is difficult.

1) An informed audience such as ourselves tend to prize historical accuracy. Of course this is frankly best presented as a documentary

2) The majority of movie ticket buying viewers do not emphasize nor appreciate historical accuracy. They are interested in one of (i) character development (ii) action - blood and gore (iii) both (iv) moral or philosophical juxtaposition. Not nearly as much 'buying interest' in documentaries.

Thin Red Line has been mentioned many times here / Dunkirk as well.

I tend not to pan them as bad war movies for historical inaccuracies; although they are fairly open for critic as they somewhat sold themselves on the basis of historical accuracy.

The 100 foot cliff if an excellent example. I am quite certain that even the USArmy would understand attacking a fortified position immediately after climbing a 100 foot cliff might be a bad idea.

Red Line is in category (i) and (iv)

Dunkirk is 'vignettes' in category (i) and (iv)

If I want good - I look for documentaries / investigative journalism.

If I want beer and chips... Netflix / Movies are available.

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Post #: 118

RE: Worst modern war film of all time - 5/2/2019 3:46:07 PM

Chickenboy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lecivius

quote:

ORIGINAL: Yaab

My favourite worst movie is "Battle of the Bulge", 1965.

What, are you kidding?!? Best one liner, ever!

"It can be done!"

Oh, that movie was a stinker. But Lecivius is wrong. The best line from that movie, when "Pieper" is rolling into the untouched American fuel depot:

"No shooting please".

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