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Local supply source effects on unit supply and vice versa

 
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Local supply source effects on unit supply and vice versa - 5/7/2019 1:52:04 PM   
Telemecus


Posts: 4689
Joined: 3/20/2016
Status: offline 		I am used to thinking about distance to a rail head affecting the supply a units gets. But what exactly is the impact of local supply sources? We can see the local supply source in the supply details - but until now I have paid little attention to it. And how do units near a local supply source affect the supplies brought there?

i) I understand the rail supply modifier is based on the location of its local supply source and not the unit itself. So sometimes one unit taking an enemy town could make the supply for another unit worse if that becomes its local supply source and it is further east for instance.

ii) If there are few supplies in the local supply source for the units sourcing from it, does this mean those units will get even less? Or will units switch to another local supply source? Does a local supply source ever constrain supply for units that are not isolated?

iii) Does the local supply source only store supplies according to its own population and other characteristics - or do the number and needs of the units drawing supply from it also cause it to get more supplies.

Basically how does the local supply source and its stock affect the supply of units, and how is it affected by units?

< Message edited by Telemecus -- 5/7/2019 3:12:45 PM >
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RE: Local supply source effects on unit supply and vice... - 5/7/2019 3:14:02 PM   
EwaldvonKleist


Posts: 2038
Joined: 4/14/2016
From: Berlin, Germany
Status: offline 		i) The rail supply modifier is based on the position of the railhead hexagon the supply is drawn from, not the city (I assume pre-1.12.00 versions here, not the new system). In case of ports I think the port hexagon is treated as a railhead (unless you are in the port, then only generic modifiers are applied (e.g. blizzard effects), but no location modifiers IIRC)

Not sure about the other points, but I do not recall ever having problems with reduced supply due to lack of it in cities. I always assumed the cities simply act like a valve for the national pool, giving as much to the unit as it desires if there are stockpiles in the pool and the city is connected to a national supply source.



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(in reply to Telemecus)
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RE: Local supply source effects on unit supply and vice... - 5/7/2019 3:20:57 PM   
Telemecus


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quote:

ORIGINAL: EwaldvonKleist
i) The rail supply modifier is based on the position of the railhead hexagon the supply is drawn from, not the city (I assume pre-1.12.00 versions here, not the new system).


KenchiSulla tested it and concluded it was the local supply source, not the railhead. I think Crackaces found something like that separately too. So I am basing this on what others have told me. But I will check again.

quote:

ORIGINAL: EwaldvonKleist
Not sure about the other points, but I do not recall ever having problems with reduced supply due to lack of it in cities. I always assumed the cities simply act like a valve for the national pool, giving as much to the unit as it desires if there are stockpiles in the pool and the city is connected to a national supply source.


That is what I assumed too - almost to the point that the whole local supply thing seemed almost irrelevant. Which begs a question of why go to all that bother at all. Isolated supply/ capturing supply and possibly rail supply modifiers seem very minor things for all that designed infrastructure?




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RE: Local supply source effects on unit supply and vice... - 5/7/2019 3:27:05 PM   
EwaldvonKleist


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Joined: 4/14/2016
From: Berlin, Germany
Status: offline 		i) Interesting. I ran tests too but it was a while back. No time atm to redo them, please tell me if you can prove results that contradict my understanding.

The rest: I agree.


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The Library of Gary Grigsby's War in the East resources.
Do you want total war? Guide for WitE players

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RE: Local supply source effects on unit supply and vice... - 5/7/2019 7:54:02 PM   
Telemecus


Posts: 4689
Joined: 3/20/2016
Status: offline 		I got this back

quote:

ORIGINAL: KenchiSulla
The rail supply modifier is indeed based on the location of the source (must be a town) and not the railhead location. So if a town (depot) is in hex X0 but the railhead is extended to X1, X2 (further east - no town hexes) that doesn't matter at all for supply.



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RE: Local supply source effects on unit supply and vice... - 5/8/2019 7:36:15 AM   
Chris21wen

 

Posts: 6249
Joined: 1/17/2002
From: Cottesmore, Rutland
Status: offline 		Just carried out a quick test and local supply sources do adjust thenselves dependant upon the units drawing supply from them. This and your post only got me thinking, dangerous that.

How does isolation work and as you pointed out what's the purpose of local supply sources? How I think it should work is isolation should only occur if units are cut off from any supply source. If in a pocket with a local supply source then that local should be able to resupply units until it's supply stockpile runs out, usually one turn.

I can't find anything in the cgange or manual that explains if this is correct or not.

(in reply to Telemecus)
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RE: Local supply source effects on unit supply and vice... - 5/8/2019 8:58:42 AM   
morvael


Posts: 11762
Joined: 9/8/2006
From: Poland
Status: offline 		In the new system isolated units resupply properly from local supply sources. But in the version you play isolated units mostly get nothing.

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RE: Local supply source effects on unit supply and vice... - 5/8/2019 9:05:09 AM   
Telemecus


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Chris21wen
Just carried out a quick test and local supply sources do adjust thenselves dependant upon the units drawing supply from them.

By adjust do you mean simply that their stockpiles were lowered simply because units were drawing from them. Or that the cities actually got larger stockpiles to begin with than they usually would precisely because units were near them. Is the formula something like cities try to stockpile 100 supplies for every population points - and replace any supplies used by units below it. Or is the formula that cities will stockpile 100 supplies for every population point plus something for units nearby? I am not too sure on the formulas but you get the idea.

The reason why I ask is I can envision strategies that would take advantage of building up stockpiles in cities. You could move units (perhaps airbases or HQs you do not care about) close to a city specifically to boost its stock build up during logistics - and then ....


< Message edited by Telemecus -- 5/8/2019 10:19:56 AM >

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RE: Local supply source effects on unit supply and vice... - 5/9/2019 5:52:38 AM   
Chris21wen

 

Posts: 6249
Joined: 1/17/2002
From: Cottesmore, Rutland
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Telemecus

quote:

ORIGINAL: Chris21wen
Just carried out a quick test and local supply sources do adjust thenselves dependant upon the units drawing supply from them.

By adjust do you mean simply that their stockpiles were lowered simply because units were drawing from them. Or that the cities actually got larger stockpiles to begin with than they usually would precisely because units were near them. Is the formula something like cities try to stockpile 100 supplies for every population points - and replace any supplies used by units below it. Or is the formula that cities will stockpile 100 supplies for every population point plus something for units nearby? I am not too sure on the formulas but you get the idea.

The reason why I ask is I can envision strategies that would take advantage of building up stockpiles in cities. You could move units (perhaps airbases or HQs you do not care about) close to a city specifically to boost its stock build up during logistics - and then ....



Stockpile got bigger dependant upom how many draw from them.

(in reply to Telemecus)
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RE: Local supply source effects on unit supply and vice... - 5/9/2019 5:53:23 AM   
Chris21wen

 

Posts: 6249
Joined: 1/17/2002
From: Cottesmore, Rutland
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: morvael

In the new system isolated units resupply properly from local supply sources. But in the version you play isolated units mostly get nothing.


More goodies.

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RE: Local supply source effects on unit supply and vice... - 5/9/2019 8:30:49 AM   
Telemecus


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Joined: 3/20/2016
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Chris21wen
quote:

ORIGINAL: morvael
In the new system isolated units resupply properly from local supply sources. But in the version you play isolated units mostly get nothing.

More goodies.


The fight for Leningrad just got more interesting!

quote:

ORIGINAL: Chris21wen
Stockpile got bigger dependant upom how many draw from them.


Expect to see Leningrad get very crowded with units in the early turns!

< Message edited by Telemecus -- 5/9/2019 8:31:34 AM >

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RE: Local supply source effects on unit supply and vice... - 5/9/2019 9:49:18 AM   
Crackaces


Posts: 3858
Joined: 7/9/2011
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Telemecus

quote:

ORIGINAL: Chris21wen
quote:

ORIGINAL: morvael
In the new system isolated units resupply properly from local supply sources. But in the version you play isolated units mostly get nothing.

More goodies.


The fight for Leningrad just got more interesting!

quote:

ORIGINAL: Chris21wen
Stockpile got bigger dependant upom how many draw from them.


Expect to see Leningrad get very crowded with units in the early turns!


Great observation “and” .. the key will be the consequences of keeping a bunch of units at Leningrad. How many turns the local supply will sustain once isolated? What is the effect of bombing HQ’s and units in this scenario? (One way up reduce supplies in a kettle. Right now the effect is minimal but it did not matter because isolation itself was devastating.) changing one aspect of a seize but not changing consequential other aspects might have an effect on the game. I would like to understand more ..

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