RE: Lowpe (Japan) vs Wargamr (Allies)

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All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> War in the Pacific: Admiral's Edition >> After Action Reports >> RE: Lowpe (Japan) vs Wargamr (Allies)

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RE: Lowpe (Japan) vs Wargamr (Allies) - 5/10/2019 4:18:34 PM

Lowpe

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The 46cm kills..

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RE: Lowpe (Japan) vs Wargamr (Allies) - 5/10/2019 4:48:08 PM

mind_messing

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Even with all those kills, the Yamato's aren't close to paying themselves off VP wise!

Must suck to be the crew of SC-703 and have a shell that weights an appreciable fraction of your boat ruin your day.

Would you consider playing this game on after auto-vic?

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RE: Lowpe (Japan) vs Wargamr (Allies) - 5/11/2019 12:54:01 AM

DanSez

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ooohhhh,
I can almost smell the jet fuel burning.

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RE: Lowpe (Japan) vs Wargamr (Allies) - 5/11/2019 8:40:53 AM

GetAssista

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quote:

ORIGINAL: mind_messing
Even with all those kills, the Yamato's aren't close to paying themselves off VP wise!

Must suck to be the crew of SC-703 and have a shell that weights an appreciable fraction of your boat ruin your day.

Would you consider playing this game on after auto-vic?

Earlier in the thread

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel
Will you guys continue to play thereafter? You've probably already covered that, but I can't recall.

It will be game over, I need to concentrate on Obvert!

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RE: Lowpe (Japan) vs Wargamr (Allies) - 5/11/2019 12:21:02 PM

Lowpe

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quote:

ORIGINAL: mind_messing

Even with all those kills, the Yamato's aren't close to paying themselves off VP wise!

Would you consider playing this game on after auto-vic?

The presence of the super heavies has been a game changer, and the Yamato has easily earned her VP (at least 2-1) in her six months of operation. You have to toss in ground losses too, you know.

Their presence, and stellar performance, have had a huge effect on Allied operations and tactics and also improved Japanese tactics and the tempo of offensive operations.

Get was kind enough to answer the question on AV...I feel the need to work with Obvert. 2 full games is simply a bit much for my schedule.

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RE: Lowpe (Japan) vs Wargamr (Allies) - 5/11/2019 2:48:36 PM

Lowpe

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Jan 17, 1943

Japan bombards Cocos, Adak, Cebu with the IJN...

The attack on Adak gets a 2-1 and reduces forts to 1 and with that result (plus some ground combat in China), President Roosevelt and Prime Minister Churchill are brought to the negotiating table and a cease fire declared.

Japan has achieved their war goals and will negotiate a peace and a Greater Asian Prosperity Zone!

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RE: Lowpe (Japan) vs Wargamr (Allies) - 5/11/2019 2:51:06 PM

Lowpe

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Post any questions & I will endeavor to answer them.

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RE: Lowpe (Japan) vs Wargamr (Allies) - 5/11/2019 5:03:24 PM

GetAssista

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Congratulations on the exemplary JFB AAR! Well deserved victory.
AFBs should study it for the perils of "too little, too soon" urges.

Hopefully this one will sweeten the bitter pill of that other game

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RE: Lowpe (Japan) vs Wargamr (Allies) - 5/12/2019 12:20:35 PM

Lowpe

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In reviewing my AAR, the siege of Chungking began around August, but I had made the decision to bomb the industry there early in the war (once Ichang got to level 4-5 runways) and sent a half dozen bombing runs to Chungking targeting at first manpower and then light industry.

This tactic was based upon the fact that I have never seen Chungking's industry not get destroyed, especially with all the troops Wargamr had put there (over 9k AV).

Anyhow, I stopped after a bit, based on some forum postings that industry destruction was more binary.

However, once Chungking fell the industry was indeed wiped out...I am not sure if I should have continued with the industry destruction or not?

< Message edited by Lowpe -- 5/12/2019 12:22:10 PM >

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RE: Lowpe (Japan) vs Wargamr (Allies) - 5/12/2019 12:27:19 PM

Lowpe

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I hadn't really looked at my economy in months and months, really once I saw the path for auto victory without much risk or really violating my key strategic plan for the game.

Over 5 million supply at Jan 16 of 1943 is not too shabby. Fuel is strong too, considering the KB and BB's were constantly at sea! The KB however only moved a hex or two or three a lot of the time, and even held the same position at sea depending upon DLs to minimize fuel usage.

Almost every base I took brought their industry intact (except for Chungking)...very lucky for Japan.

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< Message edited by Lowpe -- 5/12/2019 12:28:53 PM >

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RE: Lowpe (Japan) vs Wargamr (Allies) - 5/12/2019 12:33:44 PM

Lowpe

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Japanese research and development.

Kind of quirky...but would definitely get Frank very early. I think having 10 factories on Frank would have been sufficient, and I should have had more on Sam.

The plan was to roll the Frank factories into jet or rocket I think and skip the Ki94 and Ki83.

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< Message edited by Lowpe -- 5/12/2019 12:39:33 PM >

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RE: Lowpe (Japan) vs Wargamr (Allies) - 5/12/2019 12:41:32 PM

Lowpe

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No super crazy expansion of the IJN air force. I think that was about the only HR, no super size combat squadrons, although Wargamr did want to have the ability to super size training squadrons. Whether he did or not, I do not know.

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RE: Lowpe (Japan) vs Wargamr (Allies) - 5/12/2019 12:44:11 PM

Lowpe

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IJAAF Fighters

Nothing crazy here. One sentai and one chutai of KAI Dinah for night fight roles.

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RE: Lowpe (Japan) vs Wargamr (Allies) - 5/12/2019 12:47:08 PM

Lowpe

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Fighter Bombers

Used in bombing/strafing roles in China; lr cap, base defense, night fighters. Not many credited kills, but they did very good work.

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RE: Lowpe (Japan) vs Wargamr (Allies) - 5/12/2019 12:49:32 PM

Lowpe

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Sally was the workhorse, very little Helen production. Lilly was used primarily in ASW role.

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RE: Lowpe (Japan) vs Wargamr (Allies) - 5/12/2019 1:13:32 PM

Lowpe

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So this was a Dec 8th Start, Scenario 1, reduced shipping, Asian Roads Babes game...I also had realistic r&d off and I don't think I used that feature at all in the game (but it does give Japan production and research flexibility for late game surprises or mistakes).

Asian Roads didn't really seem to have any impact.

Dec 8th Start is super nice. I started the game without even running a test turn, and with about 1 hour of work time for the turn.

Reduced shipping is nice, but I didn't have any problems shipping. I used Adens/Lima for resource convoys. I converted almost every ship I could into AR (none of them finished), and also had 20-30 AD.

Singers and Palembang both fell on Dec 31, 1941. Burma was taken by amphibious invasion, the lack of destroying a lot of Allied troops on the ground there led to the decision of a Ceylon Invasion...meant to merely be a raid and retreat. Ceylon was invaded April 42 and fully conquered early May. The Chungking Plains was taken June I recall with Chungking falling in Dec of 42.

Allied counter offensives at Akyab (weak), Tabituea and Attu were beaten back and destroyed, and High Command decided to reinforce Ceylon (just in time as a British invasion fleet was just off shore) and start a general offensive in the Aleutians in an attempt to force the Allies to the negotiating table.

The IJA never really held strong forward positions but was held back in reserve and reacted to aggressive Allied offensives. By gaining naval superiority, the IJN was used in an artillery role.

However, by the end of the game, with the negotiation table in sight, the IJA did dedicate lots of troops forward in the Aleutians...perhaps 7 divisions with an 8th at Fusan ready to go.

Wargamr is an excellent, seasoned opponent with a track record of relentless, crushing offensives. Therefore the key Japanese strategies was to leave the doors open and let him in.

< Message edited by Lowpe -- 5/12/2019 1:15:55 PM >

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RE: Lowpe (Japan) vs Wargamr (Allies) - 5/12/2019 1:15:57 PM

Canoerebel

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Congratulations, Jeff. Auto-Vic isn't easy to achieve.

I didn't follow this AAR early on, so now I'm going back to read it carefully - to see when an why the wheels came off for the Allies and when and how you decided to pursue AV. My working theory, without knowing much at this point, is that China was a major factor in your AV. This'll make good reading in between my own turns.

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RE: Lowpe (Japan) vs Wargamr (Allies) - 5/12/2019 1:20:57 PM

Lowpe

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The VP tally for the last few months

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RE: Lowpe (Japan) vs Wargamr (Allies) - 5/12/2019 1:22:13 PM

Lowpe

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

Congratulations, Jeff. Auto-Vic isn't easy to achieve.

I didn't follow this AAR early on, so now I'm going back to read it carefully - to see when an why the wheels came off for the Allies and when and how you decided to pursue AV. My working theory, without knowing much at this point, is that China was a major factor in your AV. This'll make good reading in between my own turns.

Thanks, I was very lucky. I am think sometime in early-mid Nov I decided to reinforce Ceylon, reinforce it and go for Auto Victory. There was a post by Alfred earlier I think by Alfred that the game would end in AV...but it wasn't until the naval clash at Ceylon mid Nov that I thought it was possible, and then really possible when I got significant reinforcements on Ceylon.

Most the early game wasn't AAR'ed but highlighted so you can get thru a lot in the first two pages.

This was the scene on Nov 12, 1942 -- a few days prior was some major surface combat with British Cruisers that went pretty heavily for Japan. At this point there was probably not more than 60 AV on Ceylon defending.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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< Message edited by Lowpe -- 5/12/2019 1:47:59 PM >

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RE: Lowpe (Japan) vs Wargamr (Allies) - 5/12/2019 1:23:40 PM

Lowpe

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quote:

ORIGINAL: GetAssista

Congratulations on the exemplary JFB AAR! Well deserved victory.
AFBs should study it for the perils of "too little, too soon" urges.

Hopefully this one will sweeten the bitter pill of that other game

Thanks, Get

; you have been with me forever and your statistical fact finding is invaluable! It made my ground game very successful in this game.

What other game?

< Message edited by Lowpe -- 5/12/2019 1:27:49 PM >

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RE: Lowpe (Japan) vs Wargamr (Allies) - 5/12/2019 1:50:33 PM

Lowpe

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The Allied Ceylon invasion pulled back, and the 2nd Division and support troops arrived to secure Ceylon. With the success of this operation at Ceylon, I started gunning for AV by expanding the Aleutian operations to take Adak.

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RE: Lowpe (Japan) vs Wargamr (Allies) - 5/12/2019 1:54:24 PM

Lowpe

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Wargamr just sent this picture of Adak....

Look at all that supply!

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RE: Lowpe (Japan) vs Wargamr (Allies) - 5/12/2019 9:05:00 PM

GetAssista

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe
Thanks, Get; you have been with me forever and your statistical fact finding is invaluable! It made my ground game very successful in this game.

Aww, man, greatly appreciated!
This is why I do them, those mindbogglingly tedious exercises

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RE: Lowpe (Japan) vs Wargamr (Allies) - 5/13/2019 3:06:14 AM

PaxMondo

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Congrats!!!!

_____________________________

Pax

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RE: Lowpe (Japan) vs Wargamr (Allies) - 5/13/2019 4:58:37 AM

Canoerebel

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I enjoyed reading pages 1 through 8 tonight, which gave me a better feel for how things evolved and devolved (I've been casually reading the AAR for a long time but only seriously in the past few weeks).

Singers falls easily, China is surrendered rather meekly, and you killed some good units at Ceylon. But things are looking fine for the Allies in mid-42, when you post a graphic showing the Aluetians, one small Japanese outpost at Attu, and your note that you have no plans in that theater. Boy did that turn into the decisive meeting engagement. And then there was the Allied debacle at Tabituea. It's your AAR, so from your perspective, but there didn't seem to be any Allied victories to speak of, barring the occasional and relatively small naval strikes in NoPac that were hugely offset by IJ triumphs.

It looks like Wargmr was incredibly passive fighting in the air and that he committed big forces in odd combinations too far forward and without adequate base buildup and nav search capabilities. Huge TFs comprised of DMs and DMSs and stuff that had a tough time against Yamato and friends.

Thus far, I'm not sure I've learned from this exactly what not to do as an Allied player beyond the very general "Don't let this happen!"

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RE: Lowpe (Japan) vs Wargamr (Allies) - 5/13/2019 7:11:55 AM

CaptBeefheart

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Congratulations on a job well done! There are a few lessons for the AFB regarding the timing and strength of counterattacks.

Cheers,
CB

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RE: Lowpe (Japan) vs Wargamr (Allies) - 5/13/2019 7:31:31 AM

obvert

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

Wargamr just sent this picture of Adak....

Look at all that supply!

Low forts. I forget. How high were they to start?

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"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

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RE: Lowpe (Japan) vs Wargamr (Allies) - 5/13/2019 8:32:38 AM

obvert

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

The VP tally for the last few months

Although during the game I was focused on his naval losses (and constant forward use of the USN in the Aleutians which you consistently made him pay for) as the decisive factor in turning the tide, it seems the land battles had a much larger impact on the VP outcome. I guess I'm curious how much of that is China, and how much is captured bases in the Aleutians and Ceylon (with higher VP cost troops) that the IJN made possible?

The land unit loss ratio is astounding! You lost so few VP for all of the territory gained and troops you destroyed.

Allied LCU losses: 17618
Japanese LCU losses: 474
-----------------------------
ratio ---------------- 37.17

While it's not as high a VP total, the ship loss ratio is just crushing!!

Allied ship losses: 4917
Japanese ship losses: 556
-----------------------------
ratio ---------------- 8.84

< Message edited by obvert -- 5/13/2019 9:02:05 AM >

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RE: Lowpe (Japan) vs Wargamr (Allies) - 5/13/2019 9:00:53 AM

GetAssista

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quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert
Although during the game I was focused on his naval losses (and constant forward use of the USN in the Aleutians) as the decisive factor in turning the tide, it seems the land battles had a much larger impact on the VP outcome. I guess I'm curious how much of that is China, and how much is captured bases in the Aleutians and Ceylon that the IJN made possible?

Chinese starting army is worth roughly 8-9k VPs in standard scenarios. It was not destroyed in its entirety yet, but then revivals brought some new vps into the fray for Japan to harvest. So a guesstimate of about half of the final LCU VPs coming from China is not far off the mark

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RE: Lowpe (Japan) vs Wargamr (Allies) - 5/13/2019 9:03:06 AM

obvert

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quote:

ORIGINAL: GetAssista

quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert
Although during the game I was focused on his naval losses (and constant forward use of the USN in the Aleutians) as the decisive factor in turning the tide, it seems the land battles had a much larger impact on the VP outcome. I guess I'm curious how much of that is China, and how much is captured bases in the Aleutians and Ceylon that the IJN made possible?

Chinese starting army is worth roughly 8-9k VPs in standard scenarios. It was not destroyed in its entirety yet, but then revivals brought some new vps into the fray for Japan to harvest. So a guesstimate of about half of the final LCU VPs coming from China is not far off the mark

Cool. Something I've never bothered to look into since I've never thought about an early AV as a goal. Thanks!

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