[DW:Universe] AI in Pre-Warp start broken?

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[DW:Universe] AI in Pre-Warp start broken?

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[DW:Universe] AI in Pre-Warp start broken? - 6/25/2019 5:16:46 PM

Arralen

Posts: 827
Joined: 5/21/2000
Status: offline

I wonder, is it me (some dumb starting config?), or the extended AI mod (though I went back to an unmodded game, it looks pretty much the same), or is it the GOG version of the game that is broken?!

I got and tried out the game lately, and after basically being killed by pirates in the first 4 or 5 tries, I thought I got the hang of it, and stumbled upon the extended AI mod, so I started a new game.

And in 2125, I find the Sol system ... humans in the process of being wiped out by pirates, with a handfull of civilian ships left, in earth orbit, and maybe some lonely station somewhere (would have to check again).
So I fired up the editor, and - no AI nation had made it out of the home system. Seemingly they all get killed by bandits, or screw up anyhow else?!

Setup was:
Irregular, 700 stars, 10x10 sectors
PreWarp
Normal Aggression
Normal/Hard difficulty
research costs very/expensive (360k)
few creature
normal pirates, average/distant, very weak (!)
normal col prevalence, normal alien life
col influence ragen 80% (instead of 100%)
colonisation range not enforced

What's going wrong?
Is this a known issue?

Post #: 1

RE: [DW:Universe] AI in Pre-Warp start broken? - 6/25/2019 5:24:15 PM

StarLab

Posts: 844
Joined: 8/27/2012
From: Ontario, Canada
Status: offline

The AI mod is recommended to be played at Very Hard or Extreme Difficiulty. Anything less nurfs the AI

_____________________________

-Larry Monte

Latest YouTube Series
DW2 Mortalen Preview
DW2 Ackdarian Preview

(in reply to Arralen)

Post #: 2

RE: [DW:Universe] AI in Pre-Warp start broken? - 6/25/2019 5:41:38 PM

Arralen

Posts: 827
Joined: 5/21/2000
Status: offline

According to
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/fb.asp?m=4158904
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/fb.asp?m=4159782
the AI is not affected by the difficulty settings ... only the game is made harder for the human player. Has that changed?

If not, there is no use in cranking up the difficulty, as one computer player (pirates) kill of the other computer players (empires) faster than I can even reach them. Making me slower wouldn't help them much ... .

And after seeing all the comments about the good AI (for a game), and the how-to-plays which start in prewarp I figured that my start settings are "valid"?!

Maybe it's the combination of 7 stars/sector, no clumping and 360K research?

< Message edited by Arralen -- 6/25/2019 5:43:01 PM >

(in reply to StarLab)

Post #: 3

RE: [DW:Universe] AI in Pre-Warp start broken? - 6/25/2019 5:54:40 PM

StarLab

Posts: 844
Joined: 8/27/2012
From: Ontario, Canada
Status: offline

You mentioned "an" AI mod... I assumed you were using this mod: http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3647528 which states it should be played at higher difficulty. If that's not the mod you're using then I'm not sure what's up.

I DO remember seeing your exact problem when trying that particular AI Mod at lower settings. Thought that might have been it...

_____________________________

-Larry Monte

Latest YouTube Series
DW2 Mortalen Preview
DW2 Ackdarian Preview

(in reply to Arralen)

Post #: 4

RE: [DW:Universe] AI in Pre-Warp start broken? - 6/25/2019 6:03:07 PM

Arralen

Posts: 827
Joined: 5/21/2000
Status: offline

Yes that is the mod, and sadly, it happens without any mod as well?!
(I did mention that, didn't I)

(in reply to StarLab)

Post #: 5

RE: [DW:Universe] AI in Pre-Warp start broken? - 6/25/2019 7:36:18 PM

Aeson

Posts: 784
Joined: 8/30/2013
Status: offline

I wouldn't say that the empire AI is broken on the Shadows start, but it can certainly have quite a bit of trouble getting off the ground in the face of a strong pirate presence. Some things you might try:
- giving one or two of the more distance AI empires an advanced start to have a bit of pirate suppression going on in the far corners of the map early on, though be aware that there is an enormous capability gap between the prewarp tech level and normal tech level / Tech Level 1 (note: Tech Level 1 and Normal Tech Level are not quite the same thing; the former grants all Level 1 technologies, i.e. everything in the same 'column' as Maxos Blasters, Gerax Hyperdrives, and Colonization, whereas Normal Tech Level only grants a subset of those techs but will also give an empire the first level of its species-specific technology), which might create its own set of problems.
- playing with the Return of the Shakturi storyline active so that the Ancient Guardians will spawn and, hopefully, do a bit of pirate suppression, though as they tend to spawn near the player empire that might help you more than it helps the AI empires, and if I recall correctly the RotS storyline, like the Original, puts some powerful derelicts on the map and so might empower the pirate factions.
- don't feed the pirates, or at least be picky about which ones you feed, how you feed them, and how much you feed them. Pay as little protection money as you can, and if you go in for pirate attack/defend missions then try to go for ones that'll get the pirates fighting one another rather than the empires.

(in reply to Arralen)

Post #: 6

RE: [DW:Universe] AI in Pre-Warp start broken? - 6/26/2019 3:55:38 AM

Lucian

Posts: 279
Joined: 12/1/2012
Status: offline

Its not just you, the pirates on default settings and pre-warp start are just insane for some reason, and no normal AI empire has much of a hope of ever getting started. In my opinion, the single best and most useful option ever added to this game was the ability to nerf the pirate's numbers and effectiveness, which I always use.

Its really the only thing which prevents the entire game from collapsing into pirate-hell and allows the AI empires to actually develop into something that has some chance in hell of providing a threat. Nerf the pirates from the option screen, its the only way to be sure...

(in reply to Aeson)

Post #: 7

RE: [DW:Universe] AI in Pre-Warp start broken? - 6/26/2019 7:00:54 AM

stuart3

Posts: 193
Joined: 9/4/2014
Status: offline

Remember all the abandoned warships that are lying about the star systems waiting to be claimed by the first faction to discover them? In a prewarp start, the pirate factions have the run of the galaxy while the civilisations are still confined to their own systems. The pirates do have a limitation in that only their explorers seem to be able to find and therefore collect these abandoned warships, and each pirate faction has only one explorer. But setting pirates to normal generates quite a few pirate factions, each with their own explorer. The fact that their initial strength is weak is irrelevant.

10x10 sectors is a large galaxy and will contain a proportionately large number of abandoned warships to be found and claimed. And that is compounded by your choice of very expensive research costs. This massively increases the time it takes for you and the other races to develop warp technology. Time that the pirates will spend claiming all those abandoned destroyers, capital ships, and cruisers. It is no surprise that the pirates have become overwhelmingly dominant by the time you escape your home system.

I suggest a less masochistic combination of initial settings.

< Message edited by stuart3 -- 6/26/2019 7:56:22 AM >

(in reply to Lucian)

Post #: 8