Fall of France

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Fall of France - 7/9/2019 8:11:15 AM

LiquidSky

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Something unexpected occurred in my Server game with a friend....

I spent a bit of time cleaning France out of all units...except for an army he had garrisoning Paris.

The Italians advanced on Tunis and had a corp adjacent to Algiers.....thinking that if I took Paris, I would not get the Vichy question, I took it.

What happened then is France surrendered! I did not own Algiers...but was adjacent to it, so perhaps the event is not firing properly?

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RE: Fall of France - 7/10/2019 7:43:56 PM

Hubert Cater

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Hi Liquidsky,

I'm just trying to understand the concerns here a bit more, was French National Morale at or very near zero if you can remember?

Hubert

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RE: Fall of France - 7/13/2019 9:29:04 AM

LiquidSky

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French Morale was probably rock bottom as I had pretty much destroyed the entire French army and some of the fleet...and took all of mainland France.

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RE: Fall of France - 7/16/2019 9:40:16 AM

BillRunacre

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Hi

This is correct then, as DE 602 to form Vichy France will not fire if there is an Axis unit within 2 hexes of Algiers when France surrenders.

This is in place because if an Axis unit is there then it would be very unlikely that the Axis player would wish to form Vichy, and in the unlikely event that they were to do so, then the French get extra units there, whereas really in such circumstances they would likely have just collapsed.

We didn't have this check in place originally, but it was introduced in response to some players having the decision fire and feeling that it wasn't appropriate in these circumstances.

Bill

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RE: Fall of France - 7/16/2019 11:36:05 PM

pjg100

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In a PBEM game under 1.03 recently, axis had taken most of northern France exceptnparis, which was surrounded. Also had taken Lyon, but not Marseilles, where a French Corp was entrenched. Bed had pulled out during the prior turn. It was October 1940. Italians were advancing north from Libya, but had not yet taken Tunis. I don�t think there was an axis unit within two hexes of Algiers. French received morale bonus for lasting into October. However, next turn term and killed last French army and took Paris. France then surrendered immediately. Is this WAD?

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RE: Fall of France - 7/16/2019 11:48:26 PM

Mercutio

Posts: 256
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Axis unit...
I hope that at least means a land unit and not a ship.
Actually I would hope it was a land unit that was more powerful than the allied unit in Algiers

Also I don't like that if you chose not to form Vichy all the sudden the French go to 100 morale. A boost for do or die? Sure. + 20ish or something, not 100.

Just my 2 cents

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RE: Fall of France - 7/18/2019 4:16:52 PM

BillRunacre

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quote:

ORIGINAL: pjg100

In a PBEM game under 1.03 recently, axis had taken most of northern France exceptnparis, which was surrounded. Also had taken Lyon, but not Marseilles, where a French Corp was entrenched. Bed had pulled out during the prior turn. It was October 1940. Italians were advancing north from Libya, but had not yet taken Tunis. I don�t think there was an axis unit within two hexes of Algiers. French received morale bonus for lasting into October. However, next turn term and killed last French army and took Paris. France then surrendered immediately. Is this WAD?

The loss of Paris would reduce their morale significantly, so I think so.

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RE: Fall of France - 7/18/2019 4:28:30 PM

BillRunacre

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercutio

Axis unit...
I hope that at least means a land unit and not a ship.

Agreed, and it would have to be on land.

quote:

Also I don't like that if you chose not to form Vichy all the sudden the French go to 100 morale. A boost for do or die? Sure. + 20ish or something, not 100.

I've checked the script and France receives a boost of 10,000 National Morale points if Vichy isn't formed.

But it's starting morale was 22,500 so this should put it up to about 45%.

If it is going significantly higher there may be other reasons, e.g. 2,500 points for holding out until October 1940, 3,000 in March 1941 and 10,000 each for the USA and USSR joining the war.

So if you (or anyone else) do see it going up to 100% when the Germans say no to Vichy and without any of the above being the reason, then please let us know as then it would signify something else might be amiss.

Thanks

Bill

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RE: Fall of France - 7/18/2019 11:08:42 PM

Mercutio

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I had tried it in a previous match. I took Paris, the NW and center. The Maginot line and south France was still theirs. I think the French morale was something like 20s and I said no to Vichy and the national morale went to 100%

I don't have that one anymore and it was 1.02

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RE: Fall of France - 7/19/2019 12:16:24 AM

pjg100

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The confusing thing is that Vichy was not formed and France immediately completely surrendered, i.e., all French territories immediately became conquered by the Axis (with a couple of exceptions that went Free French). It doesn't appear as though the French received the morale bump for the Axis declining Vichy. In any event, the Axis taking Paris and the complete surrender of France happened in the same Axis turn.

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RE: Fall of France - 7/20/2019 10:50:47 PM

Mercutio

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I tried this out. I think having a unit close to Algiers is still too easy. After all, it is up to the player to take Paris. So don't take it unless you also take Algiers. If you didn't have a unit there and didn't create Vichy it would get free units there, correct?

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RE: Fall of France - 7/22/2019 2:54:16 PM

BillRunacre

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That's correct.

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RE: Fall of France - 7/23/2019 7:06:41 PM

Mercutio

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So why not with the fall of Paris they show up in Algeria also? To me, I think you should have to take Algeria, just my 2 cents.