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Turn Sequence - 6/29/2019 2:33:20 PM

JTFox001

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Hello all.

As a new player to the game I'm struggling to get a grip of the turn sequence.

In the old days playing board games the instruction manual always started with the sequence of play which you would follow and look up the detail as required for each phase of the turn.

Could the player base here advice on a generic sequence of play I could use across multiple scenarios to help me learn to play the game.

Thanks in advance.

JTF

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RE: Turn Sequence - 6/29/2019 3:07:53 PM

Shadrach

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It's not exactly intuitive and there is not much in the way of a tutorial for new players. The manual starts with just defining a lot of stuff, describing the UI and rules, and not really giving any clue on how to play the game. To avoid reading the entire manual in one go, have a look at chapters 9 and 10 to begin.

Basically each turn is divided into 10 rounds. You move units and plan attacks, and these burn up a given amount of rounds (in essence, time). The remaining rounds for the turn are shown at the bottom of the Unit Panel. Greyed out ones are already spent. When planning an attack, make sure to spend as few rounds as you can. Don't commit units to attack that have already moved a long distance in the same turn, as this will burn out your rounds quickly. The Combat Planner will show how many rounds an attack are estimated to take, but they can take more.

Usually I will spend the first couple of rounds moving rear-area units, and planning softening-up artillery barrages, possibly planning some attacks on weak enemy formations. You might want to soften up enemy positions over several rounds to get them out of dug-in status. Then you move units where attacks have cleared the way, and repeat. Last rounds are spent doing the last attacks you would do and digging in remaining units you don't plan to move any more.

If doing this correctly you can usually get 5-8 active rounds out of the ten.

It requires a bit more planning than the regular turn-based play, but I think it's a good approximation of having to account for time spent in movement of forces before a battle.

< Message edited by Shadrach -- 6/29/2019 3:09:59 PM >

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RE: Turn Sequence - 6/29/2019 3:25:30 PM

sPzAbt653

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Check out Larry's very detailed thread, it is a 'click by click' for a large scenario, which may not fit for all other scenarios, but having one routine for all might not work anyway.
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4382219

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RE: Turn Sequence - 6/29/2019 6:02:11 PM

Lobster

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quote:

ORIGINAL: sPzAbt653

Check out Larry's very detailed thread, it is a 'click by click' for a large scenario, which may not fit for all other scenarios, but having one routine for all might not work anyway.
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4382219

Some stuff on Youtube too.

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RE: Turn Sequence - 6/29/2019 8:29:49 PM

sPzAbt653

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Yeah but finding specific stuff on YouTube is difficult. Lots of the videos I have watched are some guy rambling about his big plan, or what he thinks of the game, or some other waste of time. Often the guy will even admit to not having any or little experience with the game. So unless someone provides a specific link, I am getting discouraged from looking there.

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RE: Turn Sequence - 6/29/2019 8:30:30 PM

Lobster

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TOAW tutorials is all you need to put in the search box.

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=TOAW+tutorials

Took all of five seconds.

< Message edited by Lobster -- 6/29/2019 8:31:18 PM >

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RE: Turn Sequence - 6/29/2019 10:41:43 PM

Shadrach

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lobster
TOAW tutorials is all you need to put in the search box.
https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=TOAW+tutorials
Took all of five seconds.

Well, not everyone is interested in watching hours of video, mostly consisting of some nasally voiced mouth-breather faffing about with settings, spending half an hour pointing out every bloody button on screen, reading all the text of every dialogue out in a monotonous drone, or endlessly going on about some obscure details no-one but the hardcore rivet counters care about. Or actually giving out misleading information because they are confused about some features themselves.

I know video tutorials apparently is the "thing" with the millennials these days, as they obviously can't be bothered to actually read anything.

Some people just want a clear concise manual, giving a brief step by step introduction to the game, while keeping all the gory details needed for a deeper understanding available in the later chapters, for when the time comes to dig into them. Besides, I like to read game manuals on paper, preferably in bed. Makes for a great sleeping aid too!

Most of those tutorials are for TOAW 3 anyway...

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RE: Turn Sequence - 6/29/2019 11:20:09 PM

76mm

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Shadrach
Well, not everyone is interested in watching hours of video, mostly consisting of some nasally voiced mouth-breather faffing about with settings, spending half an hour pointing out every bloody button on screen, reading all the text of every dialogue out in a monotonous drone, or endlessly going on about some obscure details no-one but the hardcore rivet counters care about.

+1000
I also hate video tutorials for all the reasons you mention...

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RE: Turn Sequence - 6/30/2019 1:13:44 AM

Lobster

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double post.

< Message edited by Lobster -- 6/30/2019 2:19:07 AM >

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RE: Turn Sequence - 6/30/2019 1:17:45 AM

Lobster

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lobster

quote:

ORIGINAL: Shadrach

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lobster
TOAW tutorials is all you need to put in the search box.
https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=TOAW+tutorials
Took all of five seconds.

Well, not everyone is interested in watching hours of video, mostly consisting of some nasally voiced mouth-breather faffing about with settings, spending half an hour pointing out every bloody button on screen, reading all the text of every dialogue out in a monotonous drone, or endlessly going on about some obscure details no-one but the hardcore rivet counters care about. Or actually giving out misleading information because they are confused about some features themselves.

I know video tutorials apparently is the "thing" with the millennials these days, as they obviously can't be bothered to actually read anything.

Some people just want a clear concise manual, giving a brief step by step introduction to the game, while keeping all the gory details needed for a deeper understanding available in the later chapters, for when the time comes to dig into them. Besides, I like to read game manuals on paper, preferably in bed. Makes for a great sleeping aid too!

Most of those tutorials are for TOAW 3 anyway...

So you feel Steve aka sPzAbt653 is a "nasally voiced mouth-breather faffing about with settings". I kinda like the guy myself but each to his own.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gA5kbyT_9SM

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Q: What do you call a boomerang that doesn�t come back?
A: A stick.

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Post #: 10

RE: Turn Sequence - 6/30/2019 2:27:52 AM

sPzAbt653

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I was told that I sound like John Goodman!

I did my videos out of necessity. At the time there were none available and I couldn't believe it. I could find a YouTube on how to clean a shower stall, but none on how to play TOAW.

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RE: Turn Sequence - 6/30/2019 2:29:07 AM

larryfulkerson

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quote:

I was told that I sound like John Goodman!

+1

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RE: Turn Sequence - 6/30/2019 2:34:38 AM

sPzAbt653

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quote:

Well, not everyone is interested in watching hours of video ... Most of those tutorials are for TOAW 3 anyway...

I tried to keep mine at 10 minutes or less. It's difficult at times and one of them went to like 16 minutes, I think. It's too long to ask people to watch. We should be able to make a video point in 6-8 minutes, I think.
I started to remake mine for IV, but after working on it for a little bit, I realized that really I was redoing the same thing, so I didn't do it. Nothing in my videos doesn't apply to IV, and Matrix released new videos for IV where they were needed.
I agree that I would also rather not watch a video, but I've seen that some folks these days seem to want someone to play the game for them! However, sometimes a picture is worth a lot, so in the case of topics like Getting Started [on a new game], or watching how to manage Combat Rounds in TOAW, a short video is quite nice.

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RE: Turn Sequence - 6/30/2019 3:58:43 AM

76mm

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I have to confess to not having watched Steve's video tutorials, so can't confirm or deny his nasal qualities, and I applaud him for his efforts.

That said, having suffered through hours of tedious video tutorials for other games, I much prefer a coherent written explanation.

So double thanks to Steve and Don on their efforts to create an updated manual.

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RE: Turn Sequence - 6/30/2019 6:07:03 AM

cathar1244

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quote:

That said, having suffered through hours of tedious video tutorials for other games,

Cheers

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RE: Turn Sequence - 6/30/2019 10:30:54 AM

Shadrach

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quote:

ORIGINAL: sPzAbt653
I was told that I sound like John Goodman!

You do sound like John Goodman!

Actually not a bad voice at all, kind of pleasant to listen to. Guess I was thinking of Youtube letsplayers in general

quote:

ORIGINAL: sPzAbt653
I tried to keep mine at 10 minutes or less. It's difficult at times and one of them went to like 16 minutes, I think. It's too long to ask people to watch. We should be able to make a video point in 6-8 minutes, I think.

Absolutely agree. A lot of these guys ramble on, get distracted by something, fall off the track, and keep going in another direction.
Teaching is an craft, it needs schooling to be good at it. None of these guys have I guess.

And 10 minutes should be enough to explain a concept - it's not quantum physics we're talking about here.

< Message edited by Shadrach -- 6/30/2019 3:52:59 PM >

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RE: Turn Sequence - 6/30/2019 2:37:42 PM

Bamilus

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I actually rewatched Steve's videos a few days ago. Good stuff and still applicable for TOAW 4, as he mentioned.

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RE: Turn Sequence - 6/30/2019 3:36:29 PM

Lobster

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He da man.

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RE: Turn Sequence - 7/1/2019 1:06:54 PM

sPzAbt653

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lol, here's a case in point. WarPlan is a soon to be new release with a couple of videos out. So I picked one and started watching. Below is a shot of this video at the four and a half minute mark, and the screen has not changed since it first started. For four and a half minutes this guy has been reading what sounds like the product page or the introduction page from the manual. If it's not one of those, then he spent a lot of time writing a product page for the game ! And not one frame of video has changed !! What's the point of boring me to death ? I gave up and moved on with my life.

I also have to remember that this poor ass video probably is no reflection on Al's [fuzzypup!] years of hard work and dedication to this game. I wouldn't really know for sure though, because I have yet to see a video of it!

P.S. Please don't complain that 4.5 minutes didn't give it a chance. Ten seconds is a lifetime these days, and does this guy expect me to listen to 30 minutes of this? The reason for a video is to have a VIDEO, not a voice recording!

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by sPzAbt653 -- 7/1/2019 1:08:11 PM >

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RE: Turn Sequence - 7/1/2019 1:25:25 PM

Bamilus

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Yea, unfortunately due to the nature of most wargames and the fact that maybe one to three people actually post videos of most Matrix Games you often get videos where you're just watching a guy ramble. However, it is better than it was 8-10 years ago when it was pretty much impossible to find any video footage of most Matrix Games. They aren't perfect, but guys like PewPewChewChew (RIP), XTRG, and Agrippa Maxentius have at least allowed people to see gameplay footage of many Matrix Games. 8-10 years ago you had Warforgame Blogspot and basically no one else, and he's Italian so his videos have zero commentary.

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RE: Turn Sequence - 7/1/2019 3:49:55 PM

Lobster

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I grab the slider and move it to places where information seems to be given. I even do that with a five minute video. I have better things to do than listen to useless drivel even for ten seconds.

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RE: Turn Sequence - 7/1/2019 4:44:07 PM

Bamilus

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lobster

I grab the slider and move it to places where information seems to be given. I even do that with a five minute video. I have better things to do than listen to useless drivel even for ten seconds.

You have to, plus you quickly learn how bad a lot of these guys are at playing games. I really use the videos just to get an idea of the game but very few people that post wargame YouTube videos actually know what they're doing. Watching them for a long time or trying to emulate what they do is bad for your health!

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RE: Turn Sequence - 7/1/2019 7:41:50 PM

Shadrach

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South Park nailed the whole "watching other people play games" phenomenon 5 years ago, after it really took off with that horrible Swede

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0rOFw_3t8t0

Also I think we scared JTFox001 off with our ranting

< Message edited by Shadrach -- 7/1/2019 7:50:36 PM >

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RE: Turn Sequence - 7/1/2019 10:12:11 PM

JTFox001

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Na, it's OK.

Been following the links and doing my own searches.

Found some tutorials called "Tutorial 41, 42, 43" etc.

Cheers JTF.

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RE: Turn Sequence - 7/2/2019 2:51:59 AM

Lobster

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quote:

ORIGINAL: JTFox001

Na, it's OK.

Been following the links and doing my own searches.

Found some tutorials called "Tutorial 41, 42, 43" etc.

Cheers JTF.

There actually are tutorials that come with the game. In the Tutorial folder...of course. They all have docs to help you along.

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Lobster -- 7/2/2019 2:52:43 AM >

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RE: Turn Sequence - 7/2/2019 5:38:21 AM

cathar1244

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quote:

I tried to keep mine at 10 minutes or less. It's difficult at times and one of them went to like 16 minutes, I think. It's too long to ask people to watch.

I'm impressed that you went to the effort to make the videos. That is real dedication to "the community". I am also impressed by Klink's creativity in his presentations.

Wargaming can be dry as dirt; I know because I root around in its driest parts, the underlying data. You fellows give it color and make it interesting. Well done.

Cheers

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RE: Turn Sequence - 7/2/2019 11:10:30 AM

sPzAbt653

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quote:

impressed that you went to the effort

To be honest, I was tired of answering the same forum questions over and over, so I thought of putting together a page of links to video's [because everything is on YouTube], but I was surprised that there were no videos [this was a couple years ago, now there are so many it is difficult to pick what to watch]. So because I am lazy, I made those videos, and they were a pain in the ass. I used free software with no editor, so they had to be done in one cut. No coughing, no doorbells, no dog barking, and no 'um's' !!

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RE: Turn Sequence - 7/7/2019 3:36:11 PM

JTFox001

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Found this posted by "elxaime"

STANDARD APPROACH TO A TURN

1. Move units not intended to be in combat (rear area, recon that won't be attacking)

2. Move units intended for attacks into contact; try not to exceed more than 1/3 of their movement to get into contact

3. For units that have not moved which are capable of land bombardment, naval bombardment, air missions - execute those as they are unlikely to use up more than 1/3 of the time stamp; do not use assets that needed to move a significant distance to get into range/rebase as these may use up more time; save these for the second wave attacks

4. Plan and execute first wave of attacks from units you moved to contact in #2

5. Based on the time stamp after the first wave of attacks have run, you should be able to repeat the process to use up the remaining time for exploitation movement/attacks; during these "second wave" movement attacks you can use bombardment/airstrike assets from units that moved in #1, but were held back so as to leave the timestamp as low as possible at the start of #5

I think it's a good starter for 10.

Cheers JTF

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RE: Turn Sequence - 7/8/2019 2:45:42 PM

Bamilus

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http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4629239

Larry answered my question about a good turn sequence in this thread - recommend it!

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RE: Turn Sequence - 7/11/2019 10:42:39 AM

JTFox001

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Thanks for the link. Some good reading.

Here's my updated thinking.

Turn Sequence.

1. Scenario Admin, Unit Assessment & Objectives Review.

2. Air Unit Tasking.

3. Bombardment/Air Strikes, Initial Moves (1/3 Movement).

4. Ground Assault, Secondary Movement (1/3 Movement)

5. Follow Up Assault, Final Movement (1/3 Movement).

Cycle through 3, 4 & 5 if you have any combat rounds left.

I�ll look to add more detail going forward.

Cheers.

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Post #: 30