Matrix Games Forums

 Forums  Register  Login  Photo Gallery  Member List  Search  Calendars  FAQ 

My Profile  Inbox  Address Book  My Subscription  My Forums  Log Out

sea interdiction question

 
View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
Users viewing this topic: none
  Printable Version
All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> The Operational Art of War IV >> sea interdiction question Page: [1]
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
sea interdiction question - 7/17/2019 5:17:43 PM   
Essro

 

Posts: 129
Joined: 11/19/2007
Status: offline 		I had a unit undergo sea transport and move. It was within range of 24 Swordfish set to sea interdiction. It was also within range of over 200 friendly fighter planes set to air superiority. Net result: no air to air combat (?) and the loss of an entire corps. No loss to the 24 Swordfish.

Incredulous at the result, I attempted a similar move on the next turn. Same result. Loss of a second corps.

This was an excessive result for the situation the scenario presented. Any way within the game engine to tone this down?

Also, would a naval unit "escorting" (i.e. moving as group) contribute AA fire to the defense of the transport? Massive amounts of fighters set to air superiority did not appear to impact?

Thanks
Post #: 1
RE: sea interdiction question - 7/17/2019 6:24:11 PM   
larryfulkerson


Posts: 39932
Joined: 4/17/2005
From: Tucson, AZ
Status: offline 		I'm wondering why your fighters didn't CAP either of your sea trials. Is the weather bad where the corps are being intercepted? I wish there were a way to specify to the fighters that they are to drop everything else and protect the floaters.

And yes, some naval ships would be used as escorts to share their AAA assets. DD's have a disproportionately large amount of AA and make excellent escorts.

_____________________________

If we're all created in the image of god then why aren't we all invisible?

(in reply to Essro)
Post #: 2
RE: sea interdiction question - 7/17/2019 7:30:20 PM   
mdanz


Posts: 124
Joined: 7/24/2018
Status: offline 		How much cloud cover there is I think does make a big difference in intercept calculations. It also seems to calculate intercepts differently in the same weather for planes attacking ships. I'm not sure why. But I have noticed the same problem a number of times now.
What the AA slider is set to by the scenario designer also makes a big difference. If its set at 50% than ship AAA fire is only half as effective, etc. That means more successful plane attacks. And there's other settings scenario designer's can mess with to try and find the right balance. It seems possible to reach reasonable naval vs air results with balancing. At least closer than that. I've played scenarios that resolved better than that anyway. I've also played some that resolved just as bad consistently or even worse.



(in reply to larryfulkerson)
Post #: 3
RE: sea interdiction question - 7/17/2019 7:45:36 PM   
Lobster


Posts: 5104
Joined: 8/8/2013
From: Third rock from the Sun.
Status: offline 		It would seem the Swordfish would be subject to weather the same way the fighters were. In fact the fighters would know the location of the ships whereas the Swordfish would have to find them. Seems like naval stuff still needs a lot of work. The default settings should give average results shouldn't they?

_____________________________

http://www.operationbarbarossa.net/

Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity and I’m not sure about the universe-Einstein

Q: What do you call a boomerang that doesn’t come back?
A: A stick.

(in reply to mdanz)
Post #: 4
RE: sea interdiction question - 7/17/2019 8:06:57 PM   
mdanz


Posts: 124
Joined: 7/24/2018
Status: offline 		It would seem so but how it plays out can vary a lot.
For example: Operation C3 you often have to send 100 planes or more with fighters to hopefully reduce the ships supply to red, do a little damage and drive it off still floating.
In another scenario I played, 30 or so Betty bombers attacked four of my carriers within range of land based planes and carrier planes. I'm not sure about the weather on that one. But the result was 3/4 carriers wrecked and only seven losses in betty's. And that naval stack had DD's as escorts as well.
The anti-ship attack value on the Betty's was 240 and the AAA slider was 50% in the one where the carriers stood no chance. That's a balance issue.
I would have to look again at what C3 is set for but its better designed than that.
In other words, I guess what I suspect is, the standard settings are not always the best for scenario conditions and the scenario designer has to monkey with those numbers to get it to play right. At least good enough to be playable.
That requires play testing. And I'm pretty sure at least some of the scenarios people make and available to download (Not knocking anyone's effort whatsoever) maybe haven't been play tested quit as well as maybe they needed too in order to find those glaring faults.

< Message edited by mdanz -- 7/17/2019 8:22:53 PM >

(in reply to Lobster)
Post #: 5
RE: sea interdiction question - 7/17/2019 8:24:51 PM   
Zovs


Posts: 6668
Joined: 2/23/2009
From: United States
Status: offline 		For my War in Europe scenario I set the NAD to 100% and AAA Lethality to 150, it seems to work well for 25 mile hexes and 1 week turns. I found a play tester and we are pbeming it now. I added in Coastal Arty as well. When I set the NAD to 10, 25 or 75 it was too bloody in the first turn in ship vs. ship actions.

Sea Interdiction in my scenario with these settings seems to work well too. From what I can tell the fighters on AS are intercepting any enemy air. I'll know more once France and the CW free up from their imposed static and garrison formation stance.

_____________________________


Beta Tester for:
Flashpoint Campaigns: Sudden Storm
War in the East 1 & 2
WarPlan & WarPlan Pacific
Valor & Victory
DG CWIE 2
SPWW2 & SPMBT scenario creator

(in reply to mdanz)
Post #: 6
RE: sea interdiction question - 7/18/2019 2:49:01 PM   
thomasharvey


Posts: 1375
Joined: 12/19/2014
Status: offline 		Do not send troops at sea without naval units in the same hex with them. Sea interdiction in small groups can easily sink them. Sea interdiction is different than a major strike. Small sea interdiction gets through easier than a major strike so double and triple up on the CAP when troops or any naval units sail into range of potential enemy naval aircraft. All the aircraft are visible on the map, you know their range, so you can know what to expect.

Some of the CAP do not get off the ground so be sure to have plenty of extra fighters within range.

(in reply to Zovs)
Post #: 7
RE: sea interdiction question - 7/18/2019 3:12:13 PM   
Lobster


Posts: 5104
Joined: 8/8/2013
From: Third rock from the Sun.
Status: offline 		Yes, range if very important if you want fighters to intercept. Closer is better.

_____________________________

http://www.operationbarbarossa.net/

Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity and I’m not sure about the universe-Einstein

Q: What do you call a boomerang that doesn’t come back?
A: A stick.

(in reply to thomasharvey)
Post #: 8
RE: sea interdiction question - 7/18/2019 6:16:53 PM   
mdanz


Posts: 124
Joined: 7/24/2018
Status: offline 		...and then you may still lose 3/4 carriers unless the scenario is well balanced.

(in reply to Lobster)
Post #: 9
RE: sea interdiction question - 7/18/2019 6:18:08 PM   
mdanz


Posts: 124
Joined: 7/24/2018
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Zovs

For my War in Europe scenario I set the NAD to 100% and AAA Lethality to 150, it seems to work well for 25 mile hexes and 1 week turns. I found a play tester and we are pbeming it now. I added in Coastal Arty as well. When I set the NAD to 10, 25 or 75 it was too bloody in the first turn in ship vs. ship actions.

Sea Interdiction in my scenario with these settings seems to work well too. From what I can tell the fighters on AS are intercepting any enemy air. I'll know more once France and the CW free up from their imposed static and garrison formation stance.




This sounds like good quality hobbying..

(in reply to Zovs)
Post #: 10
RE: sea interdiction question - 7/18/2019 10:17:43 PM   
Essro

 

Posts: 129
Joined: 11/19/2007
Status: offline 		Thanks for all the responses!


AA was set to 100, NAD set to 10. I'm thinking that NAD setting is creating the inflated losses. I think I need to understand these attrition dividers better.

As to escorts, I just wasn't sure if transports added any inherent AA fire so now I know. In the future I will escort my transports.

As to why my fighters did not intercept I'm not sure. I will need to pay closer attention to weather in the future.

And for the 24 Swordfish pilots...they will all receive a Victoria Cross for bravely launching in unknown weather from their position aboard the HMS Eagle located just west of Corsica. Showing the undeniable audacity and tenacity of the Royal Navy, they continued eastward ACROSS the Northern Italian peninsula despite the presence of over 200 Italian and German fighter planes. Having reached the Adriatic they then located a troop convoy headed to North Africa and sank the lot. They repeated this exact same mission with success the following week. The actions of these pilots directly contributed to the early success of Commonwealth forces in Africa. The Swordfish pilots' actions are in keeping with the highest traditions of the Royal Navy and reflect great credit upon themselves, the naval air arm, the HMS Eagle, and His Majesty's Armed Forces. God save the King!


PS: the Captain of the HMS Eagle will be relieved of his command for allowing such a reckless mission, despite the success.

LOL, two full corps lost like that! Can you imagine? Probably would've knocked Italy clean out of the war.

Again, thanks all.






(in reply to mdanz)
Post #: 11
Page:   [1]
All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> The Operational Art of War IV >> sea interdiction question Page: [1]
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts


Forum Software © ASPPlayground.NET Advanced Edition 2.4.5 ANSI

1.313