British Failure to Invade Falklands

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British Failure to Invade Falklands - 7/19/2019 2:04:23 PM

stuka75

Posts: 11
Joined: 8/20/2003
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I"ve played the Falklands scenario several times now with the AI playing both sides. Each time the British failed to invade, just air combat. Glitch, coincidence?
/Thanks

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Thanks
Stuka

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RE: British Failure to Invade Falklands - 7/19/2019 2:14:26 PM

sPzAbt653

Posts: 9511
Joined: 5/3/2007
From: east coast, usa
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quote:

with the AI playing both sides

Check your Scenario Briefing - PBEM ONLY !!

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Post #: 2

RE: British Failure to Invade Falklands - 7/19/2019 7:40:32 PM

Lobster

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From: Third rock from the Sun.
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I fail to understand how people think a scenario will work right when it's PO vs PO.

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RE: British Failure to Invade Falklands - 7/19/2019 7:58:33 PM

Blond_Knight

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So does the AI not know how to do things like amphibious landings?

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RE: British Failure to Invade Falklands - 7/20/2019 12:59:36 AM

sPzAbt653

Posts: 9511
Joined: 5/3/2007
From: east coast, usa
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Single Player Mode has two levels. There is Level 1, an AI, it is a written code program that is in place for every scenario and is not accessible to scenario designers [and well it shouldn't be]. Level 2 is separate, it is the Programmed Opponent [PO] that must be programmed by the scenario designer for every scenario in order to function. Level 1 won't really do anything unless given direction by Level 2. The amount of programming for Level 2 by scenario designers varies. It can range from just enough to allow the game to function [which for most players would not be considered a challenge], to full blown 'my programmed opponent will crush you'.

CIV estimates that 95% of all games are played solo, so these are valid concerns. Not all might be interested, but the Level 2 that I talk about above is fully accessible by all players in the Editor, and therefore there is the option to set up your own PO in a scenario that doesn't have one, or to modify one that is in place. Maybe one day I will make a video for this.

< Message edited by sPzAbt653 -- 7/20/2019 1:01:48 AM >

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Post #: 5

RE: British Failure to Invade Falklands - 7/20/2019 1:15:11 AM

Zovs

Posts: 6668
Joined: 2/23/2009
From: United States
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Its relatively easy to set the objectives for a formation (essentially that is how you 'program' the PO). In fact the current editor 'forces' you to do so when you use the check scenario feature. It will tell you if the scenario is valid (meaning that all formations have an Objective programmed in, not mention if any orphaned units need to be assigned to a formation, or Victory hexes or forces deployed or supply set, or events, etc.).

The complexity comes in setting the objectives for each formation. For my WIE scenario there are quite a few formations (The CW, France, Poland, Russia, USA, all the minor countries, all the neutral countries, all the Germans, Italians, Axis minors and Axis neutrals).

Now in IV there is also multiple tracks to make it even more complex.

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RE: British Failure to Invade Falklands - 7/20/2019 6:50:50 AM

cathar1244

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Joined: 9/5/2009
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quote:

The complexity comes in setting the objectives for each formation.

Zovs, would it be fair to say that setting the formation's "stance" (garrison, etc.) is also a significant part of it?

Multiple tracks came out after I made my last scenario. Useful, but the designer has to choose the circumstances that cause a track shift.

I'll admit I was never clever with the PO setup. I mostly set it to try to follow the historical pattern. Someone with the appreciation of chess could probably devise quite challenging PO behavior.

Cheers

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RE: British Failure to Invade Falklands - 7/20/2019 10:27:29 AM

sPzAbt653

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From: east coast, usa
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There are Objectives [five tracks available], Strategic Bias, Formation Orders and Loss Tolerance's. Each can be set, in order to adjust the PO. We can make it simple or we can go for complexity. For D21 we went for complexity and there are an estimated 80,000 Objectives, plus events to change the Strategic Bias [Aggressive to Neutral stuff], plus Formation Orders [which have to be there anyway but in some cases they switch by event], plus Loss Tolerance's, which are the same as Formation Orders in that they have to be there but can switch by event. There is no 'book' on how to achieve desired results, so once you do all that you have to playtest it repeatedly to see what happens and then make adjustments. In a small scenario it's quick and fun! In larger scenarios it is tedious, and boring, and never finished because there are so many variables. This is why some scenarios have no PO or PO for one side only [but most do have a PO].

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Post #: 8

RE: British Failure to Invade Falklands - 7/20/2019 12:52:40 PM

Zovs

Posts: 6668
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From: United States
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Yes Bill, what Steve has said as well. For me most of this is inherent as part of the design process. I have a dozen scenarios I have created (started back in ACOW) but in various forms of completeness, I have to go back to tweak my Kiev and Operational Barbarossa scenarios, after my War in Europe Magnus Opera, but yeah all that and more...

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Flashpoint Campaigns: Sudden Storm
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WarPlan & WarPlan Pacific
Valor & Victory
DG CWIE 2
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Post #: 9

RE: British Failure to Invade Falklands - 7/21/2019 4:08:35 AM

r6kunz

Posts: 1103
Joined: 7/4/2002
From: near Philadelphia
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quote:

ORIGINAL: sPzAbt653

Single Player Mode has two levels. There is Level 1, an AI, it is a written code program that is in place for every scenario and is not accessible to scenario designers [and well it shouldn't be]. Level 2 is separate, it is the Programmed Opponent [PO] that must be programmed by the scenario designer for every scenario in order to function. Level 1 won't really do anything unless given direction by Level 2. The amount of programming for Level 2 by scenario designers varies. It can range from just enough to allow the game to function [which for most players would not be considered a challenge], to full blown 'my programmed opponent will crush you'.

CIV estimates that 95% of all games are played solo, so these are valid concerns. Not all might be interested, but the Level 2 that I talk about above is fully accessible by all players in the Editor, and therefore there is the option to set up your own PO in a scenario that doesn't have one, or to modify one that is in place. Maybe one day I will make a video for this.

A great explanation, Steve. Thanks!

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RE: British Failure to Invade Falklands - 7/21/2019 7:18:21 AM

cathar1244

Posts: 1003
Joined: 9/5/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: r6kunz

quote:

ORIGINAL: sPzAbt653

Single Player Mode has two levels. There is Level 1, an AI, it is a written code program that is in place for every scenario and is not accessible to scenario designers [and well it shouldn't be]. Level 2 is separate, it is the Programmed Opponent [PO] that must be programmed by the scenario designer for every scenario in order to function. Level 1 won't really do anything unless given direction by Level 2. The amount of programming for Level 2 by scenario designers varies. It can range from just enough to allow the game to function [which for most players would not be considered a challenge], to full blown 'my programmed opponent will crush you'.

CIV estimates that 95% of all games are played solo, so these are valid concerns. Not all might be interested, but the Level 2 that I talk about above is fully accessible by all players in the Editor, and therefore there is the option to set up your own PO in a scenario that doesn't have one, or to modify one that is in place. Maybe one day I will make a video for this.

A great explanation, Steve. Thanks!

Ditto, thank you sPzAbt653.

I've seen various descriptions for making scenarios in TOAW, but I've never seen one that collected all the "master level" tips together. There is always learning by doing, but one is tremendously helped when an experienced designer provides comments like this.

Cheers

(in reply to r6kunz)

Post #: 11

RE: British Failure to Invade Falklands - 7/22/2019 5:49:04 AM

StuccoFresco

Posts: 546
Joined: 9/17/2004
From: Italy
Status: offline

Good explanations.

(in reply to cathar1244)

Post #: 12