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Major Soviet Excercises

 
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Major Soviet Excercises - 6/29/2003 8:43:48 PM   
DavidW75

 

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Does anybody with some prior service in Germany during the 80's (Sabre?? you around) know when the Soviets normally conducted their annual field training? Also, was it normal for forces not part of the GSFG to deploy to East Germany for those excercises?

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Soviet Exercises - 7/1/2003 1:09:21 AM   
LTCMTS

 

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Actually, the divisional and higher echelon exercises were bi-annual, though there was usually only one SGFG level exercise each year. The Soviet training year started in Dec, ran through April and then June to Sep. May and Nov were dedicated to the induction and initial basic training of the conscripts. Feb and Mar tended to be avoided because of the winter thaw and the need to conserve equipment readiness. I can't remember and I looked in my references for exercises involving forward deploying units to SGFG from western Russia. Those conducted by the SGFG always included Volksarmee units, as these were totally integrated into the Soviet C4ISR and sometimes Polish units, especially in the amphib ops in the Baltic. Units were moved forward for exercises in Poland, especially those concerned with Polish political events such as the Solidarity strikes in 1980-81.

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- 7/1/2003 4:44:43 AM   
DavidW75

 

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I forgot about them bringing in their conscripts twice a year. So basically they would go to the field in April and Sep?

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Soviet Exercises - 7/1/2003 5:26:53 AM   
LTCMTS

 

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Actually I goofed. The second training cycle was June to Oct. Usually the major exercise would be in Oct after the harvets in the GDR and after the Russian harvest in July and August when the SGFG was actually tasked to provide manpower to assist the Russian/Ukrainian wheat harvets, mostly by providing drivers. This also avoids the occassional early winter thaw in Nov and Dec. If the Soviets were going to use a major exercise as a cover for mobilization or a prep to war, October would place them after the harvests with all their manpower available and good weather until mid-November. There would also be no warning from the retention of conscripts The days haven't gotten to short and fog is not a problem, though rain, humidty and the winds from the west would restrain the use of chemical weapons, especially non-persistent.

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- 7/1/2003 7:22:51 PM   
DavidW75

 

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What about springtime? Having never been to Germany, what is the weather like in April and May? Would this have been a good time to lauch an offensive?
Also, what was NATO's typical actions before, during, and after major Soviet excercises? How might this have differed during a period of heightened tensions?

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Re: Soviet Exercises - 7/2/2003 8:42:29 PM   
LTCMTS

 

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First, before 1980, the US and NATO would actually stand down as they did in 1968 during the Soviet intervention in Czechoslovakia, since the US had accepted Eastern Europe as a Soviet sphere. After 1980, with the Reagan administration, there was a division within NATO on the response to be made to provocative Soviet exercises, the US and the UK (remember the Iron Maiden) on one side with (usually, the Germans and the rest) on the other as far as the policy towards Soviet troop movements in Europe. The US was usually able to drag the rest of NATO with it, so the usual response to most Soviet exercises until 1988 was to increase NATO intelligence activities. After 1988, the Soviets were required by treaty to provide notice of any exercise larger then 25K and allow NATO observers. If the Soviets were caught moving forces forward under the cover of an exercise or in denying access to neutral and NATO observers, the reaction would be one of heightened tensions and NATO readiness.
The reality is that the Soviets could launch an attack at any point in the year given about 2 weeks notice to bring their forces up to war readiness at their kasernes in Eastern Europe. The choice of which month in the year would be based on Soviet political and military objectives. Certainly, certain months would be less likely because of the German weather, such as Nov and Dec when snow and cold rain or in Feb and Mar in the early spring thaws would turn much of Germany into a mud bath. These weather cycles aren't a sure thing and the thaws can last into Apr. NATO holds its major exercises in Germany in Sep-Oct because it avoids the early winter (though winter can come on early as it did in 1987), the heat of the summer (I can remember Reforger 82, when it was 105 one day in Sep and we had four heatstroke casualties within 15 mins after going to MOP IV), and the harvest is in allowing more maneuver space. May and Nov would seem bad because of the influx of conscripts, but the Soviets could hold the latest class and shunt the new class into training units. Of course, this would be a rather obvious indicator to NATO. Certain months are better for NBC ops, though the prevailing winds are mostly from the west and north, but the question would be if the Soviets used chemical weapons, which the US classified as WMD alongside nucs, would that provoke a NATO(US) response and pose the chance of escalation to a strat nuc exchange, which was NOT a Soviet NMS objective.
The problem with 1989 as the game/sim year is the political situation in our historical time line. The Soviet sphere of influence in the WP was falling apart and the next chance the hard-liners would have had to reverse the flow would have been 1991. Then it would have taken a second Russian Civil War to re-unite the disparate parts of the Soviet Empire. In the mean time, Eastern Europe would be assimilated into the EU and NATO. Which means the war starts around 2001/2002 on the Soviet/Polish and Soviet/Czech (Slovak) borders.
The other timeline would have Gorbachev being deposed in 1988 after failing to consolidate power between 1985-1987. The hardliners would take over, repress nationalist movements in Armenia, Ajzarbijan, the Ukraine, Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania. They would seek victory in Afghanistan by interdicting the Mujahdein, leading Soviet forces into Pakistan, Iran and the PRC. Then they would try to bring the Poles and Hungarians to task. This would take a while, so I couldn't see a "shooting" war breaking out before 1991. But with Soviet forces engaged in contested interventions in Afghanistan, Pakistan, Iran, Poland and Hungary, something would have had to give.
In both scenarios, however, there would have been a period, say six months to two years or more, in which the West would have recognized what was coming or needed to be done. This would have caused the OOBs we normally use to be expanded, since by 1988 the US could put 5 1/3 divisional equivalents into the FRG in two weeks.

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- 7/3/2003 3:49:51 AM   
DavidW75

 

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Very insightful indeed. As much as I love the period from a wargamming POV, the historian in me realizes the Soviet's ceased having any kind of ambitions toward western Europe once the Berlin Wall was built. One must remember that Russia has never launched a major land war in Europe. Contribute to the start of some, yes. All of this does nothing to help develop a backstory to fit the game. A whole challenge of it's own :D

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- 7/3/2003 11:28:19 AM   
Golf33

 

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You could be unorthodox and have NATO starting the war on some pretext, aiming to unify Germany :)

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- 7/3/2003 7:48:48 PM   
DavidW75

 

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I like it. Now we're thinking outisde the box :eek:

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Soviet Offensive - 7/3/2003 9:22:50 PM   
LTCMTS

 

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Actually there was a period , say 1975-83, when the Soviets probably could have conducted a successful, conventional invasion and conquest of western Europe. That they didn't was related first to the inertia in their form of decision-making, the delay in recognizing that the "correlation of forces" had turned their way (temporarily) and the perception the the positive (for the Soviets) "correlation of forces" would allow them to eventually expel the US from Europe and "finlandize" western Europe.
Also 1991 is not that far away from 1989. The Soviet expansion of the war in Afghanistan, pressure on their Indian clients to create pressure on Pakistan and on their Iraqi clients to push harder on the Iranians while threatening the Kuwaitis and Saudis and more could have provided a number of flash points. The easiest would have been a Soviet intervention into Iran, bringing CENTCOM with support from other NATO forces to SWA, which with the Soviet intervention in Poland and Hungary could lead to a desperate attack on NATO in Germany to pin ground and air forces there to prevent reinforcement in SWA.
ANyway, the game engine is supposed to ba adaptable to a variety of periods, so we can pick and choose and its tactical level, so I guess we should concentrate on how the game represents force structures, training and morale, leadership and equipment performance and support/logistics operations at the corps level and below.

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