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Mortar Damage a mystery

 
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Mortar Damage a mystery - 7/29/2019 1:45:39 AM   
Akmatov

 

Posts: 495
Joined: 7/26/2000
From: Tucson, AZ, USA
Status: offline 		Using a spreadsheet program as a template to unpack and display formation, unit, weapon and ammo data. So far everything makes sense, except the damage from mortars, which is, for all three mortars I've looked (US 107mm, 81mm and 60mm):

softDamageType, which I'm assuming is the damage to soft targets, shows: DAM_SOFT_TYPE_DISABLED

Every other weapon I've seen shows values of Light, Medium, Heavy or VHeavy rather than DISABLED. Looking at the weapons the Light etc values make sense. However what in the world does DISABLED mean for mortar damage to soft targets?
Post #: 1
RE: Mortar Damage a mystery - 7/29/2019 3:30:31 PM   
Veitikka


Posts: 1304
Joined: 6/25/2007
From: Finland
Status: offline 		The 'softDamageType' attribute is for direct fire weapons. The 'tracerType' attribute determines the mortar shell type, and the damage value is hard-coded in it.


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Post #: 2
RE: Mortar Damage a mystery - 7/29/2019 11:49:05 PM   
Akmatov

 

Posts: 495
Joined: 7/26/2000
From: Tucson, AZ, USA
Status: offline 		so for the player it is a mystery?

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Post #: 3
RE: Mortar Damage a mystery - 7/30/2019 12:42:18 AM   
CCIP-subsim


Posts: 695
Joined: 11/10/2015
Status: offline 		I think it just uses a different mechanic for dealing damage than direct-fire HE weapons do. You can replace it with one of the other existing arty/mortar 'tracerTypes' if you want a different effect.

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Post #: 4
RE: Mortar Damage a mystery - 7/30/2019 4:52:40 PM   
Akmatov

 

Posts: 495
Joined: 7/26/2000
From: Tucson, AZ, USA
Status: offline 		I was just wanting to have an idea of the amount of damage rather than 120mm is bigger than 60mm so probably does more damage, but having no idea about damage for 60mm not very meaningful. Damage for HE shells is listed, odd mortars are different. Putting together a data sheet to give me and idea of the capabilities of gear, but mortars will be just a mystery.

(in reply to CCIP-subsim)
Post #: 5
RE: Mortar Damage a mystery - 7/30/2019 5:03:50 PM   
CCIP-subsim


Posts: 695
Joined: 11/10/2015
Status: offline 		Ah I see!

I'm kind of curious about it as well - my hunch based on what I see is that artillery (including mortars) has a more complicated way of modeling damage that doesn't quite fit into the DB format, thus the hard-coding.

I'd love to see some numbers though, even just as a baseline soft/hard damage compared to the direct-fire stuff

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Post #: 6
RE: Mortar Damage a mystery - 8/25/2019 4:16:24 AM   
kevinkins


Posts: 2257
Joined: 3/8/2006
Status: offline 		"softDamageType, which I'm assuming is the damage to soft targets, shows: DAM_SOFT_TYPE_DISABLED"

and

"The 'softDamageType' attribute is for direct fire weapons."

Maybe this explains the crazy test I just ran. Three 1991 SP mortar sections hunted down a Soviet Inf Company in the open. Once spotted, the squads took withering direct fire without any damage. There should not be a man alive (at the NTC in the open also).

Kevin

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Post #: 7
RE: Mortar Damage a mystery - 8/25/2019 5:40:54 PM   
Lowlaner2012

 

Posts: 779
Joined: 11/20/2011
Status: offline 		So are you saying that damage from direct motar fire is disabled?

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Post #: 8
RE: Mortar Damage a mystery - 8/25/2019 10:53:34 PM   
kevinkins


Posts: 2257
Joined: 3/8/2006
Status: offline 		Well based on Akmatov's findings and my test last night, I think something might be amiss. With three SP mortar sections causing zero losses, it looks like something is turned off. Let's wait for Veitikka to comment. Would be good if a few others could reproduce my test since I am no expert at this game. There could be a simple explanation, like me being a novice. Just coming back to checkout the new mission editor and campaign generator after many months away. Actually did the test trying to relearn the mechanics of the game. Then I found this thread and thought maybe his findings are consistent with mine.

Kevin

_____________________________

“The study of history lies at the foundation of all sound military conclusions and practice.”
― Alfred Thayer Mahan


(in reply to Lowlaner2012)
Post #: 9
RE: Mortar Damage a mystery - 8/25/2019 11:44:41 PM   
Lowlaner2012

 

Posts: 779
Joined: 11/20/2011
Status: offline 		Hey I'm not doubting your findings, I was just trying to simplify the premise 😀

Cheers

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Post #: 10
RE: Mortar Damage a mystery - 8/26/2019 1:50:21 AM   
exsonic01

 

Posts: 1131
Joined: 7/26/2016
From: Somewhere deep in appalachian valley in PA
Status: offline 		Huh, I always used mortar team but never catches this before... If this is true then this should be fixed. I always use them to suppress atgms, suppress is one thong but that is not enough, killing potential should follow together.

(in reply to Lowlaner2012)
Post #: 11
RE: Mortar Damage a mystery - 8/26/2019 2:40:47 AM   
kevinkins


Posts: 2257
Joined: 3/8/2006
Status: offline 		Ok, I was curious with the results last night so I set up another test. This time I am seeing casualties but they are very light compared to the incoming fire. So there is "damage" occurring. But with cover and concealment being zero, I would expect the loses to climb rapidly given how other firefights in AB are so deadly. I have noticed that infantry are darn resilient in this game. Maybe I am just seeing a design feature that I am not used to.
Check it out, I am sure Veitikka would like a second opinion. Takes 5 mins to set up and play a test.

Kevin

_____________________________

“The study of history lies at the foundation of all sound military conclusions and practice.”
― Alfred Thayer Mahan


(in reply to exsonic01)
Post #: 12
RE: Mortar Damage a mystery - 8/26/2019 1:18:15 PM   
Veitikka


Posts: 1304
Joined: 6/25/2007
From: Finland
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kevinkins

"softDamageType, which I'm assuming is the damage to soft targets, shows: DAM_SOFT_TYPE_DISABLED"

and

"The 'softDamageType' attribute is for direct fire weapons."


That's true. Mortars are indirect fire weapons, not direct fire weapons in the game.

quote:


Maybe this explains the crazy test I just ran. Three 1991 SP mortar sections hunted down a Soviet Inf Company in the open. Once spotted, the squads took withering direct fire without any damage. There should not be a man alive (at the NTC in the open also).

Kevin


Indirect fire efficiency has been fine-tuned for 10+ years now. Sure there can always be room for improvement, but I'd like to see hard data and more comprehensive test results before making further adjustments. Even in the NTC the men are not standing on a flat billiard table. There are many game variables that affect the results, for example it makes a big difference if the unit is moving or not.


_____________________________

Know thyself!

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Post #: 13
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