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RE: help desk requested post here for developer - 7/28/2019 3:02:35 PM   
Lobster


Posts: 5104
Joined: 8/8/2013
From: Third rock from the Sun.
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Curtis Lemay


quote:

ORIGINAL: Shadrach

a developer/with Windows 10


Not sure if we have one of those.


Uhm...which part?

_____________________________

http://www.operationbarbarossa.net/

Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity and I’m not sure about the universe-Einstein

Q: What do you call a boomerang that doesn’t come back?
A: A stick.

(in reply to Curtis Lemay)
Post #: 61
RE: help desk requested post here for developer - 7/28/2019 4:29:20 PM   
sPzAbt653


Posts: 9511
Joined: 5/3/2007
From: east coast, usa
Status: offline
quote:

many place names on the map

Can the guys having this problem try switching to Hidden Placenames during the PO Turn to see if it changes anything?

(in reply to Shadrach)
Post #: 62
RE: help desk requested post here for developer - 7/28/2019 5:14:52 PM   
Shadrach


Posts: 727
Joined: 10/16/2001
From: Oslo, Norway
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Curtis Lemay
Not sure if we have one of those.

So what you're saying is, you are selling a product for, and claiming it supports, an operating system you have no actual way of testing?

Surely at least Matrix Support are able to do this, without just throwing the problem over the fence to you guys? They are after all still responsible for distribution and support for the product.

quote:

sPzAbt653:
Can the guys having this problem try switching to Hidden Placenames during the PO Turn to see if it changes anything?


I thought we already established this?

< Message edited by Shadrach -- 7/28/2019 5:15:04 PM >

(in reply to Curtis Lemay)
Post #: 63
RE: help desk requested post here for developer - 7/28/2019 6:01:00 PM   
Curtis Lemay


Posts: 12969
Joined: 9/17/2004
From: Houston, TX
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Shadrach

quote:

ORIGINAL: Curtis Lemay
Not sure if we have one of those.

So what you're saying is, you are selling a product for, and claiming it supports, an operating system you have no actual way of testing?

Surely at least Matrix Support are able to do this, without just throwing the problem over the fence to you guys? They are after all still responsible for distribution and support for the product.


I'm sure it was tested under Win 10. But I don't have Win 10, and I don't know if Ralph has it, either.

_____________________________

My TOAW web site:

Bob Cross's TOAW Site

(in reply to Shadrach)
Post #: 64
RE: help desk requested post here for developer - 7/28/2019 6:09:55 PM   
sPzAbt653


Posts: 9511
Joined: 5/3/2007
From: east coast, usa
Status: offline
quote:

I thought we already established this?

Ok sorry, I did look and didn't see it mentioned, so I asked *shrug*

quote:

a developer with Windows 10 needs to recreate this to have any hope of fixing it

Yes we had W10 guys in Beta and I've said before that they didn't experience this so we didn't know about it, but I know that is not what you are asking Shad. But what you are asking is a little difficult, because what we do at TOAW Beta Testing is to create a situation and hand it to Ralph to experience and fix. What we don't do is give a fault description to Ralph and expect him to find it. What I'm saying is, if we have a rock solid repeatable, then we can give that to Ralph, otherwise ...

And I will also stress that it is best to get such a repeatable using a stock scenario delivered with TOAW. We can't expect Ralph to diagnose custom scenarios, he might do it, I'm not speaking for him, but ...

(in reply to Shadrach)
Post #: 65
RE: help desk requested post here for developer - 7/28/2019 6:33:04 PM   
Shadrach


Posts: 727
Joined: 10/16/2001
From: Oslo, Norway
Status: offline 		As far as I'm concerned, this is a "rock solid repeatable"

And I think France '44 is a stock scenario? But it's pretty clear this is not related to the specific scenario, this is something in the code for the game, so there's not really any point in sending someone a save game to have a look at.

I think I've described the issue as well as I can by now, so if nothing else happens there's nothing to do but wait for a fix. Again, this is why a simple "Yes we are aware of it, and looking into a fix" from the people who know the code would be enough to let the issue rest.

Also let it be clear, I'm just helping investigating the issue for the one who originally reported it (Fastfrank), because I think it's an interesting case. I've not experienced the issue myself when actually *playing* the game. I have managed to make it crash *on purpose* to recreate the issue, and this is very much repeatable, independent of specific scenarios.





(in reply to sPzAbt653)
Post #: 66
RE: help desk requested post here for developer - 7/29/2019 3:56:43 AM   
fastfrank

 

Posts: 81
Joined: 5/19/2016
From: Puget Sound, Wash, US
Status: offline 		Scenario is as released, no edits. Only change I made was to random seed to -1 in advanced player options to ensure repeatability. And it looks like it's readily repeatable. I'm trying to replay it now with place names invisible as a workaround, but at a reasonable map scale it is easy to get lost in the big picture without place names.

To me one irony is that TOAW IV has many great scenarios, obviously representing the contribution of lots of dedicated players. Not all represent the scale of a AOR and the range of a OOB sufficient to permit the Operational Art to produce a significant difference in outcome. Don't know about the Eastern front, but on the West Cobra is the most significant opportunity. Would be a lost opportunity to not be able to use TOAW IV to study the Operational Art. TOAW IV is a great effort to advance, would be such a pity to realize the climb stopped 50m below the summit. Realized I was at risk of inserting my first emoticon (spelling?) so I'll sign off for now.

_____________________________


(in reply to Shadrach)
Post #: 67
RE: help desk requested post here for developer - 7/29/2019 11:34:21 AM   
Lobster


Posts: 5104
Joined: 8/8/2013
From: Third rock from the Sun.
Status: offline 		Are you testing this player vs PO or still PO vs PO?

_____________________________

http://www.operationbarbarossa.net/

Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity and I’m not sure about the universe-Einstein

Q: What do you call a boomerang that doesn’t come back?
A: A stick.

(in reply to fastfrank)
Post #: 68
RE: help desk requested post here for developer - 7/29/2019 11:37:14 AM   
cathar1244

 

Posts: 1003
Joined: 9/5/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Shadrach

As far as I'm concerned, this is a "rock solid repeatable"

And I think France '44 is a stock scenario? But it's pretty clear this is not related to the specific scenario, this is something in the code for the game, so there's not really any point in sending someone a save game to have a look at.

I think I've described the issue as well as I can by now, so if nothing else happens there's nothing to do but wait for a fix. Again, this is why a simple "Yes we are aware of it, and looking into a fix" from the people who know the code would be enough to let the issue rest.

Also let it be clear, I'm just helping investigating the issue for the one who originally reported it (Fastfrank), because I think it's an interesting case. I've not experienced the issue myself when actually *playing* the game. I have managed to make it crash *on purpose* to recreate the issue, and this is very much repeatable, independent of specific scenarios.







Confirm as repeatable. The scenario in question eats memory like its going out of style -- every time (this on a W10 machine). I can try running COW on an older machine, but because it uses the Vista OS, I don't if I can get a working copy of the process monitor software that Shadrach used.

Cheers

(in reply to Shadrach)
Post #: 69
RE: help desk requested post here for developer - 7/29/2019 11:39:00 AM   
Lobster


Posts: 5104
Joined: 8/8/2013
From: Third rock from the Sun.
Status: offline 		No one is saying how this is being tested. PO vs PO or player vs PO.

_____________________________

http://www.operationbarbarossa.net/

Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity and I’m not sure about the universe-Einstein

Q: What do you call a boomerang that doesn’t come back?
A: A stick.

(in reply to cathar1244)
Post #: 70
RE: help desk requested post here for developer - 7/29/2019 12:35:28 PM   
cathar1244

 

Posts: 1003
Joined: 9/5/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lobster

No one is saying how this is being tested. PO vs PO or player vs PO.


Lobster, on my PC it was set up as human vs human.

Cheers

(in reply to Lobster)
Post #: 71
RE: help desk requested post here for developer - 7/29/2019 2:20:45 PM   
Lobster


Posts: 5104
Joined: 8/8/2013
From: Third rock from the Sun.
Status: offline 		Much more reliable test than PO vs PO.

_____________________________

http://www.operationbarbarossa.net/

Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity and I’m not sure about the universe-Einstein

Q: What do you call a boomerang that doesn’t come back?
A: A stick.

(in reply to cathar1244)
Post #: 72
RE: help desk requested post here for developer - 7/29/2019 4:32:04 PM   
cathar1244

 

Posts: 1003
Joined: 9/5/2009
Status: offline 		Ran up the Cobra scenario in TOAW version 3,0,4,202 (not COW as I originally posted) on a Vista machine. Private Bytes usage stayed at a steady 178MB no matter how much I moved around the map. Another indicator this may be a conflict with Win10.

Although TOAW III started slower on the older machine, map scrolling was much smoother

Cheers

< Message edited by cathar1244 -- 7/29/2019 6:25:53 PM >

(in reply to Lobster)
Post #: 73
RE: help desk requested post here for developer - 7/29/2019 4:48:50 PM   
Curtis Lemay


Posts: 12969
Joined: 9/17/2004
From: Houston, TX
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: cathar1244

Ran up the Cobra scenario in COW on Vista machine. Private Bytes usage stayed at a steady 178MB no matter how much I moved around the map. Another indicator this may be a conflict with Win10.

Although COW started slower on the older machine, map scrolling was much smoother

Cheers

ACOW used the old bitmapped fonts only. TOAW III/IV uses Windows fonts.

_____________________________

My TOAW web site:

Bob Cross's TOAW Site

(in reply to cathar1244)
Post #: 74
RE: help desk requested post here for developer - 7/29/2019 6:24:30 PM   
cathar1244

 

Posts: 1003
Joined: 9/5/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Curtis Lemay


quote:

ORIGINAL: cathar1244

Ran up the Cobra scenario in COW on Vista machine. Private Bytes usage stayed at a steady 178MB no matter how much I moved around the map. Another indicator this may be a conflict with Win10.

Although COW started slower on the older machine, map scrolling was much smoother

Cheers

ACOW used the old bitmapped fonts only. TOAW III/IV uses Windows fonts.


Thanks Bob. The heat here has me in an error condition. I corrected my post above; the version I tested under Vista is a TOAW III version, not COW. Sorry for the sidetrack.

Cheers

(in reply to Curtis Lemay)
Post #: 75
RE: help desk requested post here for developer - 7/29/2019 7:07:09 PM   
sPzAbt653


Posts: 9511
Joined: 5/3/2007
From: east coast, usa
Status: offline 		But if you do have a working copy of CoW, we may have an interest in you ...

(in reply to cathar1244)
Post #: 76
RE: help desk requested post here for developer - 7/29/2019 7:23:37 PM   
cathar1244

 

Posts: 1003
Joined: 9/5/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: sPzAbt653

But if you do have a working copy of CoW, we may have an interest in you ...


I have it on CDROM I think (but not installed on a PC). PM me if I can be of assistance.

Cheers

(in reply to sPzAbt653)
Post #: 77
RE: help desk requested post here for developer - 7/29/2019 9:15:21 PM   
sPzAbt653


Posts: 9511
Joined: 5/3/2007
From: east coast, usa
Status: offline 		We've been looking for a CoW Interdiction Test, so if you have it running let us know and we can give you details. Otherwise, we continue the hunt for Operational CoW

(in reply to cathar1244)
Post #: 78
RE: help desk requested post here for developer - 7/29/2019 9:24:57 PM   
fastfrank

 

Posts: 81
Joined: 5/19/2016
From: Puget Sound, Wash, US
Status: offline 		see post 40, this string

_____________________________


(in reply to sPzAbt653)
Post #: 79
RE: help desk requested post here for developer - 7/30/2019 12:14:40 PM   
cathar1244

 

Posts: 1003
Joined: 9/5/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: sPzAbt653

We've been looking for a CoW Interdiction Test, so if you have it running let us know and we can give you details. Otherwise, we continue the hunt for Operational CoW


Not running, sorry.

Cheers

(in reply to sPzAbt653)
Post #: 80
RE: help desk requested post here for developer - 7/30/2019 12:20:37 PM   
sPzAbt653


Posts: 9511
Joined: 5/3/2007
From: east coast, usa
Status: offline 		Ok, thanks anyway! Anybody else

(in reply to cathar1244)
Post #: 81
RE: help desk requested post here for developer - 7/30/2019 12:27:42 PM   
Zovs


Posts: 6668
Joined: 2/23/2009
From: United States
Status: offline 		I can't find my CD's for TOAW I or COW, I got the manuals, but can't locate the CDs.

That is irratating, I also had the EF I and EF II and SP I CD's but they are with the lot of them (plus the both the old War Game Construction Kits and some other junk) lol...

_____________________________


Beta Tester for:
Flashpoint Campaigns: Sudden Storm
War in the East 1 & 2
WarPlan & WarPlan Pacific
Valor & Victory
DG CWIE 2
SPWW2 & SPMBT scenario creator

(in reply to sPzAbt653)
Post #: 82
RE: help desk requested post here for developer - 7/30/2019 2:54:02 PM   
Lobster


Posts: 5104
Joined: 8/8/2013
From: Third rock from the Sun.
Status: offline 		I have almost everything from volume one to COW. If I recall the last thing they all ran on was XP. What is really strange is that the oldest, volume one, runs fine on Windows 10.

_____________________________

http://www.operationbarbarossa.net/

Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity and I’m not sure about the universe-Einstein

Q: What do you call a boomerang that doesn’t come back?
A: A stick.

(in reply to Zovs)
Post #: 83
RE: help desk requested post here for developer - 7/30/2019 5:10:12 PM   
fastfrank

 

Posts: 81
Joined: 5/19/2016
From: Puget Sound, Wash, US
Status: offline 		With no substantive basis to hope for a near-term fix, I'm attempting to test the playability of "the Shadrach workaround". Currently having some issues with running with an edited scenario but hope to overcome that. Then will run with Axis all PO and Allies mostly PO by Turn 5. Allied formations on the front line too intermingled to disrupt prior to breakout.

_____________________________


(in reply to Lobster)
Post #: 84
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