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- 6/25/2001 12:02:00 PM

BryanMelvin

Posts: 1555
Joined: 7/28/2000
From: Colorado, USA
Status: offline

I usually perfer to play the Allied side - the UK/Canadian forces are my favorite. I enjoy the German forces but have noticed these flaws they have - AVF break down too often and Tanks MG (Main Gun)breaks down way too much. In one game, I had 5 Panther D's - 3 out of 5 MG broke down after only firing about 2 to 4 shots apiece. German 1944-45 regular Infantry Rifles seldom did any damage (this is in 5.1). I do find the German side more challenging to play and I guess that is why I like playing from the German OOB once in a while.

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Post #: 31

- 6/25/2001 1:02:00 PM

oldrocky

Posts: 42
Joined: 11/30/2000
Status: offline

quote:

Originally posted by Del: I like playing the French in 1940. It's great fun to see the German player buy bunches of 88s in a vain attempt to stop the French tanks. Throw in the French Legion and the Germans don't have much of a chance, even with their wonderful 88s. French tanks coupled with French Legions makes for a potent combined arms force.

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Post #: 32

- 6/25/2001 1:05:00 PM

oldrocky

Posts: 42
Joined: 11/30/2000
Status: offline

quote:

Originally posted by Del: I like playing the French in 1940. It's great fun to see the German player buy bunches of 88s in a vain attempt to stop the French tanks. Throw in the French Legion and the Germans don't have much of a chance, even with their wonderful 88s. French tanks coupled with French Legions makes for a potent combined arms force.

"Pride goeth before the fall"

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Post #: 33

- 6/25/2001 3:31:00 PM

General Mayhem

Posts: 180
Joined: 6/13/2001
From: Country of six thousand lakes and one truth
Status: offline

quote:

Originally posted by Drex: Well I like to play the allies because I never have a problem getting games with all the guys who love to play the Germans! Let's face it, the Germans have the most interesting mix of equipment. They have a vehicle for every imaginable job and the permutations of the force you can dream up staggers the imagination. I don't blame the guys for picking the German side.

Are you sure about that? I've got almost opposite impression. To me it seems allies had some much more intresting stuff. German's had lot of diffrent tanks, but I atleast get impression that both US and British forces had much more everything else. I also sort of like British troops as they seem to have some good tanks towards end of war, altough they miss HE/HEAT ammunition. What a drag!

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Post #: 34

- 6/25/2001 4:09:00 PM

Reg

Posts: 2787
Joined: 5/26/2000
From: NSW, Australia
Status: offline

I'm afraid I'm a bit of a cynic. I think people simply prefer to surround themselves with burning wrecks. This is much easier to do with a King Tiger than with a Sherman. :D :D :D [Though it is quite interesting that the best of the German vehicles are the first to spring to mind whilst the Allied forces are always associated with their average/most common equipment. Who immediately associates the US Army with the Wolverine or the Perishing??]. It takes a serious player to take the weaker side, 'just for the challenge'!! Also not to mention how demoralising it is to have all the burning wrecks on your side, even if you are winning the game!! (Hatches buttoned down. Incoming!!!!) Reg. [ June 25, 2001: Message edited by: Reg ]

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Post #: 35

- 6/25/2001 5:10:00 PM

mouse83

Posts: 11
Joined: 4/18/2001
From: Finland, Joroinen
Status: offline

The most important reason why I play with germans is their moral. I hate when my unit are retrearing or pinned. I like also German toy :) But I like also play with Finnish group. It's great mix. Very good moral and bad weapons and tanks. It's much harder try destroy Russian KV-1 with T-26 than german Tiger. You even have to think how to destroy T-34. And Like it a lot :) It's was little victory when my 37mm AT-gun destroyed KV-1...

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Post #: 36

- 6/25/2001 7:45:00 PM

AJH

Posts: 22
Joined: 12/13/2000
From: boston, MA
Status: offline

I agree with the first point...it is more entertaining to change history than to follow it. Also, the German Army, aside from its obvious political flaws, was a professional and superb fighting machine. While no one can espouse in any way what they fought for, one can admire the tenacity, inventiveness and intelligence of the German soldier. I think American military buffs have some sort of similar feeling for Robert E. Lee's Army of Northern Virginia, and I'm sure there are myriad other examples. Admiration of excellence, even if in a doomed or sinister cause. I also enjoy playing the British, and to some extent the Americans (great artillery, great Marines).

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Post #: 37

- 6/25/2001 9:01:00 PM

JTGEN

Posts: 1279
Joined: 11/21/2000
From: Finland
Status: offline

Toys, toys, toys. Well the Germans are one of my favorits. I like to play a lot of different battles exept Soviet vs Finns, cause I know I would beat the AI easily and we Finns can not loose to those damn Ryss�s. I quess some people do not like to play Germans because they are Nazi's. Well hell they paid for their crimes and history can not be changed. I had that problem-in SP2, I could not play the Israelis (even though the Merkava's are so nice), cause they have newer been punished for their crimes, and I think playing and winning with them would have been "politically non correct".

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Post #: 38

- 6/25/2001 9:07:00 PM

sven

Posts: 10293
Joined: 3/28/2000
From: brickyard
Status: offline

quote:

Originally posted by Reg: I'm afraid I'm a bit of a cynic. I think people simply prefer to surround themselves with burning wrecks. This is much easier to do with a King Tiger than with a Sherman. :D :D :D [Though it is quite interesting that the best of the German vehicles are the first to spring to mind whilst the Allied forces are always associated with their average/most common equipment. Who immediately associates the US Army with the Wolverine or the Perishing??]. It takes a serious player to take the weaker side, 'just for the challenge'!! Also not to mention how demoralising it is to have all the burning wrecks on your side, even if you are winning the game!! (Hatches buttoned down. Incoming!!!!) Reg. [ June 25, 2001: Message edited by: Reg ]

I do, but I am strange.

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Post #: 39

- 6/25/2001 10:06:00 PM

panda124c

Posts: 1692
Joined: 5/23/2000
From: Houston, TX, USA
Status: offline

quote:

Originally posted by Stuart Millis: I too, like to play Italy. They have some neat toys too. And against matildas, those 90mm AA guns are very useful. But the Italian army is difficult to control especially when playing with Command and control set to 'on'. I have learned to lead from the rear so my officers can rally the men as they retreat.

I think that if the Italian had any real C&C they would have been a much more dangerous force in WWII. Rommel himself said that the Italian troops were good they just lacked training, modern equipment and leadership. Rough handicaps for any army. You want to see how the AI handles the Italians just play the British against the Italians in 1940 (with realistic tanks forces), and see two Colonial armies going at it. All those little MG teams running around all over the place. :)

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Post #: 40

- 6/25/2001 10:09:00 PM

MalleusDei

Posts: 56
Joined: 4/27/2001
From: Baton Rouge
Status: offline

Why do I play the Germans? Hmm...well, my stepfather fought on that side in the war and I hate Communists, so the best way for me to play is German vs. Russians. Then there's Germany vs. France 1940, where you can play on the side of organization, courage, and efficiency against that of disorganization, cowardice, and inefficiency. As to France, yes, France has "had a bad century"...the new one so far, the last one, and the one before that (remember Napoleon?). And somehow the last few bad French centuries have turned out to cause bad centuries for almost everyone else. And an awful lot of death. Plus France has a bad memory. If you visit the Normandy memorial and read the inscriptions, it appears that France somehow liberated itself from the Germans and that a few Allied troops just somehow happened to come along for the ride. But always remember what John Foster Dulles asked De Gaulle when De Gaulle was unilaterally abandoning NATO and ordered America to get all of its soldiers out of France immediately: "Does that include all the ones in the graveyards, mon general?"

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Post #: 41

- 6/25/2001 10:21:00 PM

General Mayhem

Posts: 180
Joined: 6/13/2001
From: Country of six thousand lakes and one truth
Status: offline

quote:

Originally posted by MalleusDei: Why do I play the Germans? Hmm...well, my stepfather fought on that side in the war and I hate Communists, so the best way for me to play is German vs. Russians. Then there's Germany vs. France 1940, where you can play on the side of organization, courage, and efficiency against that of disorganization, cowardice, and inefficiency. As to France, yes, France has "had a bad century"...the new one so far, the last one, and the one before that (remember Napoleon?). And somehow the last few bad French centuries have turned out to cause bad centuries for almost everyone else. And an awful lot of death. Plus France has a bad memory. If you visit the Normandy memorial and read the inscriptions, it appears that France somehow liberated itself from the Germans and that a few Allied troops just somehow happened to come along for the ride. But always remember what John Foster Dulles asked De Gaulle when De Gaulle was unilaterally abandoning NATO and ordered America to get all of its soldiers out of France immediately: "Does that include all the ones in the graveyards, mon general?"

True that France has bit selective memory on those issues. I don't want to nick pick, but I don't think France abandoned NATO. It resigned from it's political system not the military one. Anyway, why US troops should have been in France in any case after II world war?

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Post #: 42

- 6/25/2001 10:28:00 PM

toundra

Posts: 160
Joined: 4/10/2001
From: France
Status: offline

I like to play US/USMC there is no glory to destroy a sherman with a king tiger but lot to destroy a KT with a sherman. anyway when i am playing US i play with 80% of infantry, tanks are just infantry back up/overwatch. I can play germans but i avoid SS units by respect... even in a game... I like to play the japs too, I also play the french i like our funny looking tanks and the B1 bis is a killer with a good crew maybe the best tank at this time, try them with german tanks... good luck =) I wish i could play the Scottish but no scottish flag in game!! what a shame! just the brits flag! yuck! no JK i like the brits too they are our favorite enemy =) Now about French hehe i am one of them =P yes german kicked our butt in WWII and yes because of that people think french are born looser. Bah they should know our history we have way more victories than defeats but our defeats are memorable =) France was all but ready for the second world war for several reasons everyone know.

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Post #: 43

- 6/25/2001 10:29:00 PM

victorhauser

Posts: 318
Joined: 5/29/2000
From: austin, texas
Status: offline

I agree with Brent and Tomo. The AI cannot adequately simulate superior German tactics but it does a decent job of simulating Soviet and Japanese tactics. This makes playing the Germans more "realistic", hence more enoyable. Also, the Germans faced the greatest variety of opponents. They fought against pretty much everybody in pretty much every kind of conditions. This makes them very appealing from a variety standpoint. However, even with all those reasons to play the Germans, I still prefer to play the Allies simply because of my own personal feelings against the Axis. I do play the Germans on occasion, but almost exclusively on the Eastern Front.

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Post #: 44

- 6/25/2001 10:42:00 PM

toundra

Posts: 160
Joined: 4/10/2001
From: France
Status: offline

You are wrong MalleusDei French are VERY respectful for what the US and allied have done. Are you reading the French language well? About NATO French was no longer a member but was always NATO side and always ready to help.

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Post #: 45

- 6/25/2001 10:42:00 PM

MarkFroio

Posts: 127
Joined: 12/20/2000
From: Mercer Island, WA
Status: offline

The Germans have the best toys, that's for sure. I like to play the Germans vs everyone except the US. Also, I like to play the US vs the Japanese. Eventually, though, I want to try an Italian campaign because of my heritage. Come to think of it, that's probably why I like to play the Germans too. I'm half Italian, half German and live in the USA. That must explain it.

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Post #: 46

- 6/25/2001 10:53:00 PM

JTGEN

Posts: 1279
Joined: 11/21/2000
From: Finland
Status: offline

Well, the French may have a bit selecting memory, but we all do. Theirs is just a bit more selecting owing to their long an sometimes glorious history. Who would want to concentrate on those few times you needed the "barbarians" for the rescue. Neither is it a french fault that they were on the receiving end of some new and revolutionary military tactics like blitzgrieg or battle of Crezy where the English were able to beat French cavalry by infartry (the first time in history if I remember correctly). So a couple of bad wars in such a long history is not a bad accomplishment. Allthough the way Italians have sucked after 15th century allmoust makes you forget the time before that. The US just has so short history and so many wars less it is like making final arguments of their history based on Vietnam war only. Since the connection between possible great performances of Native Americans and the majority of current day Americans.

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Post #: 47

- 6/25/2001 11:00:00 PM

JTGEN

Posts: 1279
Joined: 11/21/2000
From: Finland
Status: offline

...is nonexistent. Maybe i shoul make the sentencies more understandable :D

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Post #: 48

- 6/25/2001 11:13:00 PM

toundra

Posts: 160
Joined: 4/10/2001
From: France
Status: offline

About the French cavalry beaten by the English infantry squares, this is what happen when you have a bad timing betwen infantry and cavalry. =) Waterloo French army was not a good army but a very young and unexperienced army the "Grande arm�e" was almost completely destroyed after the russian campaign. This is how you can loose a war after several victories on the battlefield... France was already doomed before waterloo.

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Post #: 49

- 6/26/2001 12:03:00 AM

Jacc

Posts: 265
Joined: 4/30/2001
From: Viikki Imperium
Status: offline

Was it Crezy, or the battle in Switzerland where Swiss pike troops devastated some knight army? Revolutionary warfare!

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Post #: 50

- 6/26/2001 2:25:00 AM

Gallo Rojo

Posts: 731
Joined: 10/26/2000
From: Argentina
Status: offline

quote:

Originally posted by KG Erwin: It's simple. The Germans had the coolest looking uniforms and weapons, and for the early part of WWII, they had the most advanced and flexible offensive tactical doctrine on the European continent. The problem, as was true in the war, is that the other guys started to figure them out. Nevertheless, I have always admired the Wehrmacht and I guess so has the US Army, when they adopted the Fritz helmets in the late 80s. The black berets of today, ha! Check out the early German Panzer berets. Now who are we emulating as far as dress is concerned? I have no problem with it, and given the US military's overall superiority in the world, it seems only appropriate. Also, don't forget that the best machine gun in the world is simply a copy of the old MG42. The best assault rifle? A mod of the StG44. In technology and appearance in weaponry, the Germans have led the world, and we are now adopting the best of what they had to offer.

Oh! :eek: But they lost... ;)

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Post #: 51

- 6/26/2001 3:34:00 AM

MalleusDei

Posts: 56
Joined: 4/27/2001
From: Baton Rouge
Status: offline

Toundra: Perhaps not all of the French have forgotten, but all the ones that I met there had. Then there was my grandfather. He was wounded fighting the Germans in the trenches in France in 1918 and then again in his middle age in South France in 1944. He went back to visit France when I was a small boy and told me when he came back that he had been treated so badly on his visit that he wished that instead of bleeding twice for France that he had just let the Germans keep it instead. Maybe not all the French have forgotten. But many have. On a lighter note: "In general, France is a safe destination, though travelers are advised that, from time to time, it is invaded and conquered by Germany. By tradition, the French surrender more or less at once and, apart from a temporary shortage of Scotch whisky and increased difficulty in getting baseball scores and stock market prices, life for the visitor generally goes on much as before, except that there is much less crime and corruption. A tunnel connecting France to Britain beneath the English Channel has been opened in recent years to make it easier for the French Government to flee to London the next time the Germans come. Also remember that the French scare very easily: when EuroDisney set off a massive fireworks display to celebrate its opening night, half of France surrendered to Disney immediately and the other half offered to govern itself in Disney's best interests." :)

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Post #: 52

- 6/26/2001 5:56:00 AM

Warrior

Posts: 1808
Joined: 11/2/2000
From: West Palm Beach, FL USA
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A quick reading of the posts tells me there are a lot more people than the French forgetting things. Americans wouldn't have a country if Franch hadn't sent their fleet to Yorktown during the Revolutionary War. [ June 25, 2001: Message edited by: REMF ]

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Post #: 53

- 6/26/2001 8:24:00 AM

Stukadawg

Posts: 59
Joined: 5/7/2001
From: Long Island NY
Status: offline

Why I like to play as the Germans... Simply put, I like upgrading from the early tanks to the later more powerful tanks. Germany is the most fun to upgrade. Now to defend France. Many people talk about Crecy, Agincourt, and Poitiers (Hundred Year War) and forget that the first two were lost by the French by over-eagerness of the rear troops to initiate the battle. They literally shoved the French army into the English Knight Grinder (as I like to think of it). I believe that at both instances, the French were planning on fighting the next day. This is definately true of Agincourt as the rainy weather and muddy ground did to the French chivalry what the Autunm rains of Russia did to the Germans in WW2. (They also dismounted at Agincourt which, of course slowed them down, I think they did the same thing at Poitiers). To the credit of the French, let's not forget the Battle of Tours in the 8th century that guarenteed the survival of Christiandom in France and the more famous Battle of Orleans which dashed all the English hopes of controling the Loire valley. Also, until the end of the 15th century, France was greatly divided from within. And in their later history, the Religeous Wars further divided them. Now if I can resist making fun of the Italians for their ridiculous methods of warfare after the Normans had to liberate them from their Arabian opponants, then I think my fellow American countrymen can look upon the French with a bit more decency. ("Pierre says:" INDEED) Now get the hell out of my airspace, \_STUKADAWG_/

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Post #: 54

- 6/26/2001 8:38:00 AM

Stukadawg

Posts: 59
Joined: 5/7/2001
From: Long Island NY
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To further REMF's post... If it weren't for Sainte Joan, there would be no America. There was no national loyalty in France before her time. France was still divided among the trecherous (who welcomed or at least tolerated English occupation) and the complacent (who figured their own survival was enough to be satisfied with). England had a small population at the time. I don't remember the exact figure but I remember that France boasted a population seven times the English. Because there was no nationalistic feelings in France, those conquered Frenchmen, or at least their decendants, would have been loyal to the English throne. Now think about how populations grow over the course of roughly 300 years and consider this: What if England had France's manpower at the time of our Revolution? What if there was no France to distract the English from the colonies? Americans would be driving on the wrong side of the road and the Beatles would've come from Idaho. Thanks France, \_STUKADAWG_/

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Post #: 55

- 6/26/2001 9:38:00 AM

Tomanbeg

Posts: 4385
Joined: 7/14/2000
From: Memphis, Tn, CSA
Status: offline

I think the USA combat group is the best formation. As long as I have 2 batties of 155's and about 4 flights of P-47's to back it up. My favorite unit is the 60mm jeep. It will shoot smoke all day(At least it did,I havn't tried 502 yet), giving me lots of ways to get within 100 meters of that Tiger's flank. But I prefer sneaking around and shooting them in the back, to a toe to toe slug out. T.

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Post #: 56

- 6/26/2001 11:44:00 AM

mogami

Posts: 12789
Joined: 8/23/2000
From: You can't get here from there
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Hi, I take whatever side the person I am going to play against wants me to take (I like all of them). Against some players I take the Hungarians, Others I am France or one of the low countries. I like being the Italians since everyone seems to be suprised when you whip em (lets face it on line charges don't work well no matter who the enemy is) But many players fighting Italians or minor allies or French for the first time think it is going to be a push over. Against the AI it does not really matter what nationality the human takes he should be able to find a way to win. The only time you have to worry about the AI is in scenarios designed by someone good at SPWaW (no names but the intials WB come to mind) The hardest nationality for me in human versus human to face is Japan. A player who knows what he is doing with these units can really hurt your feelings without using a single tank or OB arty unit. Be really afraid in thick dense terrian where you do not see the Japanese till they are right next to you. :eek: :eek: :eek:

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Post #: 57

- 6/26/2001 1:41:00 PM

Colonel von Blitz

Posts: 262
Joined: 12/4/2000
From: Espoo, Finland
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quote:

It takes a serious player to take the weaker side, 'just for the challenge'!! Also not to mention how demoralising it is to have all the burning wrecks on your side, even if you are winning the game!!

Now we can argue about which side is actually weaker and which side is stronger ;) Though germans have awesome tanks and other nice units, they tend to be quite expensive. Plus, in my PBEM games I have tendency to agree with my opponents to give the german player a bit less points than it is given to the other (usually USSR). This means that german player is outnumbered in armor, in infantry and in artillery. And one has to remember that at the latter half of the war USSR troops have quite good experience and morale values. When I'm playing as german in this situation, I consider myself to be the weaker side of the battle :) But why I like to play as german in SPWAW?? Simple, their tanks and equipment is just so interesting and exciting...there is no excitement in allied vehicles. Frankly, allied tanks are just so BORING. Colonel von Blitz

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Post #: 58

- 6/26/2001 4:04:00 PM

toundra

Posts: 160
Joined: 4/10/2001
From: France
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100 years war was a french civil war!!! England as been invaded in 1066 (hasting)and fell to the French. So the 100 years war was French vs French with some kick ass welsh mercenaries ;) About Normand my grand mother was from the the De Bailleul family... You can find several Bailleul knight all over the world, Roussel (byzance, sicilia) , Bernard (scottland), Renaud (hasting). The name Bailleul was changed in scottland... to give Balliol... king of Scottland... Just to say Since the great britain invasion by the French in 1066 ALL brits are French like people ;) JK About Crecy we are not last but second!!! We have crushed and routed the italian crossbowmen =) so 1/ English 2/ French 3/ Italia! =P About Germans We invaded them So many time in the past. We have been forced to let them win. We care for our neighborhood. =) MalleusDei : All the French was not US fans Some was for the Russians... I am both. But don't worry i will never forget and i am not the only one. Maybe some remember how the English like people helped us in this war... Forcing us to respect our word with belgium by sending our Elite troops here. you know all the trops we have lost in dunkerque... and was missing to stop the PZ divisions. Invading all our territories. At this time Brits was worse than germans, even madagascar was invaded by south africa... Brits tried to give us the killing blow... by destroying the remaining French empire. And then Germany with the help of USA. This is why the French want to forget this part of their history they still wonder who was really friendly... some could say the russian menace saved us. btw you are from Baton Rouge! it mean "red staff" in french, watch out it must be a French invasion ;)

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Post #: 59

- 6/26/2001 7:27:00 PM

Stukadawg

Posts: 59
Joined: 5/7/2001
From: Long Island NY
Status: offline

Hi Toundra, I just finished reading "The Normans" by Timothy Baker and the impression I get is that the Normans (who were the decendants of Vikings as well as Frenchmen) didn't share their blood with the English peasantry, just the women of higher birth. The peasantry remained Anglo-Saxon. This is why a hundred or so years after Hastings we can see the Anglo-Saxon preferences creeping back into the arts of 11th and 12th century England. And more importantly, after Henry III (I think) came the Angevin Kings of England, the most famous and most arse-kicking of them being Edward I (who was not a pagan like Mel Gibson says) and Edward III who started the Hundred Year War. But this is a WW2 forum and when Matrix makes a medieval game I'll rant and whine about these subjects. What I can say is that as a non-professional artist/musician I've come into contact with many French folk living in or doing business in Manhatten and those I've met treated me like a professional. They were encouraging and eager to see me do well. For that, I think the least I can do is say what nice things I have to say about the French people. Aside from that, who could dare put down the inventers of zippers, my favorite musical instruments. And thats why I play as the Germans. \_STUKADAWG_/

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Post #: 60