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P-70 Nightfighter - 8/4/2019 11:51:48 AM   
latosusi

 

Posts: 327
Joined: 6/2/2004
From: London/Kuopio
Status: offline 		Which squadrons are available to be upgraded to this airplane?

Thank you in advance
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RE: P-70 Nightfighter - 8/4/2019 1:11:51 PM   
btd64


Posts: 9973
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From: Mass. USA. now in Lancaster, OHIO
Status: offline 		There's a squadron at pearl harbor which belongs to the 18th fighter group. I think it's the 9th squadron. Anyway it's the only one early on and it upgrades to the P-70....GP

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RE: P-70 Nightfighter - 8/4/2019 1:38:27 PM   
latosusi

 

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Status: offline 		thank you

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RE: P-70 Nightfighter - 8/4/2019 10:10:11 PM   
fcooke

 

Posts: 1156
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From: Boston, London, Hoboken, now Warwick, NY
Status: offline 		Has anyone ever had any luck with P-70s?

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RE: P-70 Nightfighter - 8/4/2019 10:23:25 PM   
RangerJoe


Posts: 13450
Joined: 11/16/2015
From: My Mother, although my Father had some small part.
Status: offline 		They best effect is to disrupt the bombers but I have had a P-40B shoot down a bomber at night . . .

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RE: P-70 Nightfighter - 8/4/2019 10:39:47 PM   
geofflambert


Posts: 14863
Joined: 12/23/2010
From: St. Louis
Status: offline 		Bombing at night is a fool's errand. Shooting down a bomber at night is great but that bomber shouldn't have been flying around at that hour. Later on the mass Allied raids had their effect, but until you have NFs with radar you can't really do much about it.

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RE: P-70 Nightfighter - 8/4/2019 10:45:51 PM   
fcooke

 

Posts: 1156
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From: Boston, London, Hoboken, now Warwick, NY
Status: offline 		That's been my exp as well. RJ does make a point about creating disruption. Japan 'seems' to have better luck at night than the Allies do. But it is perception - no hard data to back it up.

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RE: P-70 Nightfighter - 8/4/2019 11:03:46 PM   
spence

 

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quote:

Japan 'seems' to have better luck at night than the Allies do.


Probably relates to the high experience level of IJ aviators. It does seem that the gunners of IJ night bombers get the first shot in the combat replays even though they are using the Mark 1 Mod 0 eyeball when the night fighter is equipped with one or another of the various air intercept radars.

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RE: P-70 Nightfighter - 8/5/2019 2:04:45 PM   
Kull


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quote:

ORIGINAL: spence

quote:

Japan 'seems' to have better luck at night than the Allies do.


Probably relates to the high experience level of IJ aviators. It does seem that the gunners of IJ night bombers get the first shot in the combat replays even though they are using the Mark 1 Mod 0 eyeball when the night fighter is equipped with one or another of the various air intercept radars.



Definitely. My non-NF Allied night CAP units were not able to shoot anything down until I made sure that every pilot was minimum 70/70 in Experience and Air. Even then they don't take down very many, but they do disrupt the formation.

The real night killers are my B-17Es. Just yesterday, one unit shot down 5 Claudes and 2 Zeros in a pair of night engagements over Port Moresby.

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RE: P-70 Nightfighter - 8/5/2019 3:18:54 PM   
geofflambert


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Status: offline 		Someone uses Claudes for something other than trainers?

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RE: P-70 Nightfighter - 8/5/2019 4:25:06 PM   
Kull


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quote:

ORIGINAL: geofflambert

Someone uses Claudes for something other than trainers?


The AI does, for a while anyway. Of course, so did the IJN historically, which supports my long standing argument that the AI is a far better approximation of the historical Japanese opponent than any human.

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RE: P-70 Nightfighter - 8/5/2019 5:02:01 PM   
geofflambert


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Status: offline 		I guess the US should have scrounged up all the Jennys they could find and sent them up with a guy in back with a slingshot.

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RE: P-70 Nightfighter - 8/5/2019 5:29:45 PM   
RangerJoe


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quote:

I guess the US should have scrounged up all the Jennys they could find and sent them up with a guy in back with a slingshot.


Hand grenades and a BAR . . .

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RE: P-70 Nightfighter - 8/5/2019 5:33:49 PM   
Gridley380


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quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

quote:

I guess the US should have scrounged up all the Jennys they could find and sent them up with a guy in back with a slingshot.


Hand grenades and a BAR . . .


Or a 1911 from an L-4: http://lbirds.com/flying-l-birds-spotlight-piper-l-4-miss-me-coppel-wings-spain

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RE: P-70 Nightfighter - 8/5/2019 5:41:20 PM   
RangerJoe


Posts: 13450
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From: My Mother, although my Father had some small part.
Status: offline 		I wonder if they received an Air Medal for their aerial combat victory . . .

< Message edited by RangerJoe -- 8/5/2019 5:51:46 PM >

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Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

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RE: P-70 Nightfighter - 8/5/2019 5:51:51 PM   
geofflambert


Posts: 14863
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Status: offline 		Presented by Goldilocks.

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RE: P-70 Nightfighter - 8/5/2019 11:05:56 PM   
fcooke

 

Posts: 1156
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Status: offline 		I did have one of those Dutch observation get a kill once....single engine USN planes don't seem to get many kills.

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RE: P-70 Nightfighter - 8/7/2019 2:45:05 PM   
Macclan5


Posts: 1065
Joined: 3/24/2016
From: Toronto Canada
Status: offline 		I concur with Ranger Joe.

The real value of the P70 - which is 'a little later in the war' - other airframes - earlier airframes is night bombing disruption moreso than effectively shooting down night bombers.

Damage of any sort is a bonus as the plane may expire as an operational loss as opposed to a-to-a loss in tracking (I think this is correct).

There are a number of earlier night fighters that are extremely valuable notwithstanding easily measurable success.

The Blenhems in Singapore come to mind. P40B's in Manila (assigning a squadron thereof). Rangoon / Manadalay is another area of critical importance.

This is verses the AI of course - none the less at least 'some Japanese' players would engage in Night bombing tactics against early objectives I assume.

Simply deflecting a raid saves port / airfield / base damage that requires precious supply to rebuild; this presumes you want to maintain momentum in building fortifications for example.

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RE: P-70 Nightfighter - 8/7/2019 4:09:52 PM   
BBfanboy


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Joined: 8/4/2010
From: Winnipeg, MB
Status: offline 		Good points Macclan5.

I had a plastic model of the P-70 Black Widow once - loved the look of it. With the big radome in the nose and the 4 X .50 Cals on the roof and 4 X 20mm under the belly it looks like a "can't miss" killer (centreline mounted guns being most accurate for the pilot). So one time I looked up info on the P-70 war record, only to find that it had almost no kills and rarely saw action. By the time it came along the Japanese just weren't doing much night operations of any kind over land. Too bad the P-70 isn't carrier capable!

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RE: P-70 Nightfighter - 8/7/2019 4:45:34 PM   
Macclan5


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quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

Good points Macclan5.

I had a plastic model of the P-70 Black Widow once - loved the look of it. With the big radome in the nose and the 4 X .50 Cals on the roof and 4 X 20mm under the belly it looks like a "can't miss" killer (centreline mounted guns being most accurate for the pilot). So one time I looked up info on the P-70 war record, only to find that it had almost no kills and rarely saw action. By the time it came along the Japanese just weren't doing much night operations of any kind over land. Too bad the P-70 isn't carrier capable!


+1

Beautiful plane agreed. It may have been relatively operationally ineffective in the PAC Theater but I do believe it served as a platform for further developments.

Carrier Capable -

I have learned to treasure those AIRCENPAC and AIRSOPAC (memory) F6FNs squadrons that come in late 43 and through 44 as I recall

Of the thousands of 'carrier deployment questions' I have personally asked ( )and read in these forums - my enduring lesson is to subdivide the F6FNs squadrons and 'squeeze' them onto carriers late 43 onwards.

The AI is smart enough to send some night Betties against you; I am sure IJN fanboi's do so as well.

I sleep better at night doing so :)


< Message edited by Macclan5 -- 8/7/2019 4:47:05 PM >

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RE: P-70 Nightfighter - 8/7/2019 5:49:42 PM   
fcooke

 

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Status: offline 		Gents - methinks your mixing up the P-61 black widow with earlier night fighter the P-70 Havoc. The P-70s may never have taken anything down but I would be shocked if the Widows did not.

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RE: P-70 Nightfighter - 8/7/2019 6:06:57 PM   
pontiouspilot


Posts: 1127
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Status: offline 		Night bombing of anything but a city should be a fool's errand but in my game as Japan it certainly isn't. The massed allied 4 eng bombers are deadly, causing endless damage to airfields and troop concentrations even in face of significant night fighters. My opponent and I decided it was silly and banned it. I'm in DBB 28, July '43.

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RE: P-70 Nightfighter - 8/7/2019 6:18:46 PM   
rustysi


Posts: 7472
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quote:

I would be shocked if the Widows did not.


IIRC a Widow was credited with the last kill of the war.

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RE: P-70 Nightfighter - 8/7/2019 6:21:50 PM   
rustysi


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quote:

ORIGINAL: pontiouspilot

Night bombing of anything but a city should be a fool's errand but in my game as Japan it certainly isn't. The massed allied 4 eng bombers are deadly, causing endless damage to airfields and troop concentrations even in face of significant night fighters. My opponent and I decided it was silly and banned it. I'm in DBB 28, July '43.


TBH, I'm with you. It was no easy task during WWII to hit anything other than a city at night. Even that proved difficult enough for quite some time.


_____________________________

It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once. Hume

In every party there is one member who by his all-too-devout pronouncement of the party principles provokes the others to apostasy. Nietzsche

Cave ab homine unius libri. Ltn Prvb

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RE: P-70 Nightfighter - 8/7/2019 6:25:50 PM   
Gridley380


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quote:

ORIGINAL: fcooke

Gents - methinks your mixing up the P-61 black widow with earlier night fighter the P-70 Havoc. The P-70s may never have taken anything down but I would be shocked if the Widows did not.


The P-61's did get kills (though not a whole lot); there was even a P-61 Ace.

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RE: P-70 Nightfighter - 8/7/2019 6:29:43 PM   
Macclan5


Posts: 1065
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From: Toronto Canada
Status: offline 		Probably my mix up -

I stand corrected on the plane ....

My opinion / concurrence with Ranger Joe stands

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RE: P-70 Nightfighter - 8/7/2019 6:32:19 PM   
rustysi


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From: LI, NY
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quote:

The P-61's did get kills (though not a whole lot);


I think the reason for that was by the time they came on the scene there just weren't too many axis planes up there at night.

_____________________________

It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once. Hume

In every party there is one member who by his all-too-devout pronouncement of the party principles provokes the others to apostasy. Nietzsche

Cave ab homine unius libri. Ltn Prvb

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Post #: 27
RE: P-70 Nightfighter - 8/7/2019 7:42:24 PM   
RangerJoe


Posts: 13450
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Status: offline 		The P-61 Black Widow was very effective in Luzon. On the raid on the POW camp at Cabanatuan, it distracted the guards while the Rangers crawled up to the camp in daylight. At night, it patrolled above the roads to attack Japanese forces. In fact, the Rangers and POWs had to cross a couple of roads and there was no Japanese road traffic. While that may not have been the primary mission for the plane, it did you essential work to help make the raid an outstanding success.

_____________________________

Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

“Illegitemus non carborundum est (“Don’t let the bastards grind you down”).”
― Julia Child


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RE: P-70 Nightfighter - 8/8/2019 4:02:56 AM   
BBfanboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

The P-61 Black Widow was very effective in Luzon. On the raid on the POW camp at Cabanatuan, it distracted the guards while the Rangers crawled up to the camp in daylight. At night, it patrolled above the roads to attack Japanese forces. In fact, the Rangers and POWs had to cross a couple of roads and there was no Japanese road traffic. While that may not have been the primary mission for the plane, it did you essential work to help make the raid an outstanding success.

My goof on thinking P-70 was the model reference for the Black Widow! Thanks for the correction on that!

And thanks for that interesting tidbit of history Ranger Joe! I can imagine that 4 x .50 cals and 4 X 20mm would clear a road pretty fast!

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RE: P-70 Nightfighter - 8/10/2019 9:50:33 PM   
Rusty1961

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: latosusi

Which squadrons are available to be upgraded to this airplane?

Thank you in advance


If you intend to use it in night combat, don't bother. the NF interception routine is borked.

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