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Desert Storm - The FULL Strategic Air Campaign v2

 
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Desert Storm - The FULL Strategic Air Campaign v2 - 8/18/2019 7:52:52 PM   
Kennetho


Posts: 39
Joined: 3/24/2018
From: Denmark
Status: offline 		Desert Storm - Instant Thunder (KTO & Eastern Iraq)

This is the scenario for you if you like complexity, detailed planning and execution.
You have the entire Coalition Air and Navy forces at your disposal.
I've done my utmost to mirror the actual historic units and the names of these.

Guys,
By popular demand I've done a re-modelling of the scenario I did a couple of years ago.
I've tried to accomodate most of your inputs. However, some wanted more focus on the Navy others wanted more ground unit action.
I had actually put in ALL coalition ground divisions and all attack helicopters. However, I found that this totally killed the pace of the game. In the end I opted to focus only on the Strategic Air Campaign.

I hope you will enjoy - this is a massive campaign.

Can you emulate the succes of the Gen. Horner?
The Coalition only lost one F-18A during the first 24 hours of the air war.


As always, I'll be very happy to get your input on my scenario as I've spend +200 hours creating and testing it.

best regards
Kenneth
Denmark


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Post #: 1
RE: Desert Storm - The FULL Strategic Air Campaign v2 - 8/19/2019 5:01:40 PM   
Joelsi


Posts: 113
Joined: 10/17/2018
From: Finland
Status: offline 		Just downloaded it and started it

Jesus Christ it's BIG

Can't wait see how it runs

-Joelsi

(in reply to Kennetho)
Post #: 2
RE: Desert Storm - The FULL Strategic Air Campaign v2 - 9/6/2019 4:24:38 PM   
JPFisher55

 

Posts: 589
Joined: 11/22/2014
Status: offline 		I tried playing this scenario. It is well put together, but is too huge for the game. I have a computer with an Intel i-9 9900K and 32 GB memory. I played about one half hour of game time after much set up. But the game was still very slow and I could not save the game. Sorry.

(in reply to Joelsi)
Post #: 3
RE: Desert Storm - The FULL Strategic Air Campaign v2 - 9/6/2019 9:48:21 PM   
Randomizer


Posts: 1473
Joined: 6/28/2008
Status: offline 		Agree that this is just much too big as at real time my I7 quad core takes between 4 to 7 seconds to run one second of game time. It is the only CMANO scenario on my laptop that cannot run second for second at x1 time compression. Full marks for the research and design but smaller bites of the situation might have been a better plan.

-C

(in reply to JPFisher55)
Post #: 4
RE: Desert Storm - The FULL Strategic Air Campaign v2 - 9/7/2019 4:29:41 AM   
Fido81

 

Posts: 129
Joined: 7/14/2019
Status: offline 		I'm having a similar experience. Since it's not just my machine, I'm really curious - what were the specs of the computer you used to make this, Kennetho?

(in reply to Randomizer)
Post #: 5
RE: Desert Storm - The FULL Strategic Air Campaign v2 - 9/14/2019 10:12:40 AM   
Kennetho


Posts: 39
Joined: 3/24/2018
From: Denmark
Status: offline 		Hi guys,

Thank you very much for your input on my Desert Storm - Strategic Air Campaign (Eastern Iraq & KTO) v.2 scenario.

I've played this scenario at least 15 times and never seem to get past the 5-6 game hours myself due to your above listed issues.

In my search for historical accuracy I may have overstretched it. You probably need NASA size computer to run this version without lagging.

So what I'll do is to take all Iraqi ground units out of the game.
But guys, I'll value your input here… what more should be taken out?

- Republican Guard units?
- Iraqi Navy units?
- Iraqi minefield?
- Coalition Navy units (except carriers and TLAM carrying units)?
- AV8Bs, A-10s and attack helicopters?

I'll wait for your inputs before I start working on v.3.

In the mean time, I'm doing the final testing on Desert Storm - The Strategic Air Campaign (Western Scenario) v.2.

So look out for this. Coming very soon.

Again, thank for your input it is extremely valued.

BR
Kenneth

< Message edited by Kennetho -- 9/14/2019 10:19:52 AM >

(in reply to Fido81)
Post #: 6
RE: Desert Storm - The FULL Strategic Air Campaign v2 - 9/14/2019 4:23:08 PM   
Randomizer


Posts: 1473
Joined: 6/28/2008
Status: offline 		@ Kennetho

Don't beat yourself up, your research and attention to detail is incredible and scenario-creep is something that all scenario authors struggle with at times.

While removing Iraqi ground forces might help some, I found that the scale of the scenario is beyond my ability to manage. You provide the hardware assets of Desert Storm but the planning and execution of the real thing took hundreds perhaps thousands of staff officers tens of thousands of man hours to analyze time, space and situation, plan the strikes, generate the air tasking orders, translate them into missions and then into sorties and then execute the plan. Here you have just a single brain and at least in my case, one that is certainly no longer at its best. So the core critique is less computer performance running the scenario, although that alone makes it unplayable but the enormous size of the Player's task.

Anecdotally, it took me about 16-hours of planning over several days to run Hit Hard Hit Fast from the Shifting Sands DLC and arguably your Desert Storm is several orders of magnitude larger and more complex than was Operation Moked. This observation may say more about my brain-power (or lack thereof) but I don't think so.

Rather than just eliminating entire swaths of potential targets you might want to consider chopping the battlefield into smaller pieces and limiting Player assets to those that operated in those areas. Leave the remainder of the battlefield empty and decide whether to employ air-exclusion zones or not. A case can be made for either approach. An alternative approach might be to select single sub-commands and fight their particular campaign, removing all those enemy and friendly units not directly involved. While this might be counter to your goal of modelling all of the Desert Storm air war, I am not convinced that doing so is realistically achievable at the scale of CMANO as a single-player scenario.

Anyway good luck, am looking forward to see where you take this monster.

-C

(in reply to Kennetho)
Post #: 7
RE: Desert Storm - The FULL Strategic Air Campaign v2 - 9/14/2019 6:49:11 PM   
CV60


Posts: 992
Joined: 10/1/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kennetho

Hi guys,

Thank you very much for your input on my Desert Storm - Strategic Air Campaign (Eastern Iraq & KTO) v.2 scenario.

I've played this scenario at least 15 times and never seem to get past the 5-6 game hours myself due to your above listed issues.

In my search for historical accuracy I may have overstretched it. You probably need NASA size computer to run this version without lagging.

So what I'll do is to take all Iraqi ground units out of the game.
But guys, I'll value your input here… what more should be taken out?

- Republican Guard units?
- Iraqi Navy units?
- Iraqi minefield?
- Coalition Navy units (except carriers and TLAM carrying units)?
- AV8Bs, A-10s and attack helicopters?

I'll wait for your inputs before I start working on v.3.

In the mean time, I'm doing the final testing on Desert Storm - The Strategic Air Campaign (Western Scenario) v.2.

So look out for this. Coming very soon.

Again, thank for your input it is extremely valued.

BR
Kenneth

quote:

i guys,

Thank you very much for your input on my Desert Storm - Strategic Air Campaign (Eastern Iraq & KTO) v.2 scenario.

I've played this scenario at least 15 times and never seem to get past the 5-6 game hours myself due to your above listed issues.

In my search for historical accuracy I may have overstretched it. You probably need NASA size computer to run this version without lagging.


One thing: You might consider keeping the scenario "as is" not so much for game play, but as a historical reference for other designers. You have put in a lot of work and research, and others could take what you have done and parred it down for their own purposes. While for playing the scenario as it currently stands is too overwhelming, it may be useful as a reference.

(in reply to Kennetho)
Post #: 8
RE: Desert Storm - The FULL Strategic Air Campaign v2 - 9/14/2019 8:08:43 PM   
Roby7979

 

Posts: 963
Joined: 2/20/2018
From: Italy,Rome
Status: offline
quote:

One thing: You might consider keeping the scenario "as is" not so much for game play, but as a historical reference for other designers. You have put in a lot of work and research, and others could take what you have done and parred it down for their own purposes. While for playing the scenario as it currently stands is too overwhelming, it may be useful as a reference.


+1

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(in reply to CV60)
Post #: 9
RE: Desert Storm - The FULL Strategic Air Campaign v2 - 9/14/2019 9:57:21 PM   
Dimitris

 

Posts: 13282
Joined: 7/31/2005
Status: offline 		Plus, it's useful for benchmarking, stress-testing and performance profiling.

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(in reply to Roby7979)
Post #: 10
RE: Desert Storm - The FULL Strategic Air Campaign v2 - 9/15/2019 12:22:17 AM   
Dragnaath

 

Posts: 58
Joined: 3/6/2005
Status: offline 		How about splitting the scenario into smaller. Ex divide Iraq into three sections each its own scenario.

Just a thought.

(in reply to Dimitris)
Post #: 11
RE: Desert Storm - The FULL Strategic Air Campaign v2 - 9/15/2019 4:12:53 PM   
Karejar

 

Posts: 8
Joined: 8/19/2019
Status: offline 		First of all, thanks for your extraordinary work . I love your scenario. I don't know what a NASA computer is. I have a laptop Intel i7 and 8 gb of memory and the game runs perfectly. Obviously everyone to his own taste. I don't care how long it takes to finish. I prefer big scenarios with many units to scenarios with few units (I don't play these).

Thanks for your time and your work.

(in reply to Dragnaath)
Post #: 12
RE: Desert Storm - The FULL Strategic Air Campaign v2 - 9/15/2019 6:18:29 PM   
CV60


Posts: 992
Joined: 10/1/2012
Status: offline
quote:

Plus, it's useful for benchmarking, stress-testing and performance profiling.


That is an excellent point. You have created a standardized test scenario that can be used as the unit of measure for stress-testing. So in addition to a very useful bit of research and jumping off point, you have created something that can be used to further develop the game.

(in reply to Dimitris)
Post #: 13
RE: Desert Storm - The FULL Strategic Air Campaign v2 - 9/17/2019 2:13:04 PM   
Kennetho


Posts: 39
Joined: 3/24/2018
From: Denmark
Status: offline 		Hi guys,

Thank you very much for all of your inputs.
I really appreciate this as you can imagine how long time I've spend researching and creating this scenario.

Today I've uploaded the revisited Desert Storm - Strategic Air Campaign Western ATO v.2.

Its half the size of the KTO / Eastern Iraq scenario, so hopefully it runs somewhat smoother for everyone.

As always, please let me know what you think.
Feed-back is the breakfast of Kings

Best
Kenneth


(in reply to CV60)
Post #: 14
RE: Desert Storm - The FULL Strategic Air Campaign v2 - 9/29/2019 1:37:38 PM   
fatgreta1066

 

Posts: 470
Joined: 12/30/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kennetho

Hi guys,

Thank you very much for your input on my Desert Storm - Strategic Air Campaign (Eastern Iraq & KTO) v.2 scenario.

I've played this scenario at least 15 times and never seem to get past the 5-6 game hours myself due to your above listed issues.

In my search for historical accuracy I may have overstretched it. You probably need NASA size computer to run this version without lagging.

So what I'll do is to take all Iraqi ground units out of the game.
But guys, I'll value your input here… what more should be taken out?

- Republican Guard units?
- Iraqi Navy units?
- Iraqi minefield?
- Coalition Navy units (except carriers and TLAM carrying units)?
- AV8Bs, A-10s and attack helicopters?

I'll wait for your inputs before I start working on v.3.

In the mean time, I'm doing the final testing on Desert Storm - The Strategic Air Campaign (Western Scenario) v.2.

So look out for this. Coming very soon.

Again, thank for your input it is extremely valued.

BR
Kenneth


I tried to fire this up last night and this morning and as stated it's so unit heavy that it runs too slow for me to really play it.

I agree with what another poster said about saving the work you've done as a starting point for other researchers. But having a game that can actually be played is also important.

From your list above I'd say yes to removing all non-essential naval units. I'd also certainly remove all helicopter units that have ASW or maritme patrol capacity, I don't see how they're relevant.

As for the minefield, I think it's pretty cool that you have that an have mine sweeper missions, but I could see an argument for taking it out of the game. Ditto for the Iraqi navy. I think that at the scope of this game, you could justify keeping them in or taking them out. Maybe a couple of different versions, one with one without? IF YOU TAKE THEM OUT, then I'd say also take out all naval land facilities.

What I did last night was load the scenario up in the editor and removed a bunch of coalition units and facilities. I did remove the AV8's and some but not all of the attack helicopters. I also removed some of the crappy planes like the Mirage and the F5's because I never really use them when I play this.

As for taking out all of the attack helicopter and the A-10's, I think that depends on how much aggression the Iraqi player is going to have with their ground units.

The places where I think you could really lighten the load are in ground facilities. If coalition ground facilities aren't potential SCUD targets (thus point losers) or immediately useful to the war effort, I'd say remove them.

On the Iraqi side, I'd say strip down what you can. There are a lot of plain old Building (Small) or Building (Large) type targets that may not be needed. It seems that stripping that stuff down would be a good way to lighten the load without taking away fun and interesting elements of the game.

I really enjoy these scenarios, and I am happy to see that you keep working on them. I'll try the newest Western version next.

Chris

(in reply to Kennetho)
Post #: 15
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