RE: Europa 1947 for TOAW IV

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RE: Europa 1947 for TOAW IV - 5/7/2019 11:38:34 PM

rhinobones

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Just curious, but what is the difference between the values of Anti Personnel 9, and Artillery 10? What does Artillery 10 do that Anti Personnel 9 does not.

Regards, RhinoBones

quote:

ORIGINAL: VHauser

Here is a Soviet heavy artillery unit (note that Allied units have significantly different TO/Es than Soviet units).
This unit has 16x 122mm howitzers, 16x 122mm guns, 16x 12mm ER guns, 16x 122mm LR guns, 16x 130mm guns, 16x 130mm ER guns, 16x 152mm howitzers, 16x 152mm guns, 16x 152mm ER guns, 16x 152mm LR guns, 8x 8 inch guns, 8x 8 inch ER guns, 16x quad AAMG, 8x twin 37mm AA, 48x prime movers, 64x hvy trucks, and 32x trucks. It has a rationalized TV of 2401.

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RE: Europa 1947 for TOAW IV - 5/8/2019 2:16:42 AM

VHauser

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RhinoBones,

I'm not certain, but my guess is that the artillery rating has to do with the ability to neutralize fortifications.

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RE: Europa 1947 for TOAW IV - 5/19/2019 5:40:09 PM

VHauser

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Brief Announcement.

My dad died. He was 90 and a good man and he generally lived a happy life.
My mom is very sick.

I have to deal with a lot right now and I don't know when I'll be back. But I WILL be back.

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RE: Europa 1947 for TOAW IV - 5/19/2019 8:54:49 PM

Zovs

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VHauser, condolences and family first.

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RE: Europa 1947 for TOAW IV - 5/21/2019 10:46:08 AM

StuccoFresco

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Sorry for your loss, VHauser.

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RE: Europa 1947 for TOAW IV - 6/13/2019 7:23:59 PM

VHauser

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Just a brief update. My mom is dying from a condition called PAH (pulmonary arterial hypertension). There is nothing that can be done, and all we can do is comfort her as much as possible. At some point she will simply stop breathing...

I haven't forgotten you, but I have other concerns right now. I appreciate your thoughts and condolences. Thank you.

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RE: Europa 1947 for TOAW IV - 6/13/2019 7:58:52 PM

larryfulkerson

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I'm sending healing vibrations your way.

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RE: Europa 1947 for TOAW IV - 7/29/2019 10:51:20 PM

VHauser

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I just got back. There is no delicate way to put this, it's just a matter of time for my mom. That said, she just had her 85th birthday and it was as happy a birthday as we could make it. She is getting in-home care and she realizes that as much as we love her we have things in our lives that have to be attended to. I might be called away at any time, but for now here I am.

I have to deal with some issues here that can't wait any longer. It should take me a day or two, but I intend to get back to my "normal" routine by Wednesday or Thursday. And that includes C47.

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RE: Europa 1947 for TOAW IV - 8/1/2019 1:19:32 PM

VHauser

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Okay, I've reviewed my notes and have made a quick scan of the scenario to get a sense of where I am. Looks like I've already done a lot with the re-organization of the USA-equipped OOB. Being away for 6 weeks has had one benefit--I am looking at this thing with fresh eyes, and I'm liking what I'm seeing. I think I can finish up with the USA-equipped OOB in 7-10 days.

However, looking over the map in N. Africa, I'm less happy about giving the Allies the completed connection between Oran and Tunis. While I believe that the Allies certainly had the capability to complete that connection, it's also true that that whole region is within Axis air range. So, now I'm considering leaving that connection as broken and let the Allied player try to repair it in the face of Axis interdiction.

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RE: Europa 1947 for TOAW IV - 8/6/2019 1:08:33 AM

VHauser

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I should be done with the re-organization of the USA-equipped OOB by the end of the week.

After further thought, I've decided to not rail-connect Tunis to Oran after all. The player will have to repair that rail line after the game starts. Turns out that due to the way the game handles ports/anchorages, this will not be a major handicap. However, I'm close to the 400-supply-point limit which is a big problem for me. I'm going to have to remove some supply points and right now every single supply point on the map is important.

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RE: Europa 1947 for TOAW IV - 8/9/2019 7:42:58 PM

VHauser

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I've finished re-organizing the USA-equipped OOB. I'll start on re-organizing the British-equipped OOB tomorrow and should be finished by the end of the month.

Mixed Units.
I'm experimenting with a few mixed units for the Axis and I want to know if any of you have any experience with this. Here is the concept: The Axis will have a few locations that are important enough to have special defenses--Taranto, Toulon, Brest, Hamburg, Kiel, Oslo, and Narvik. At these locations I've created coastal fortifications that also have a few seaplanes built into their TO/E.

Will those seaplanes actually perform as aircraft (which is what I want) or will they simply be treated as long-range coast artillery (which is not what I want)? Your input/comments are appreciated.

< Message edited by VHauser -- 8/9/2019 7:53:53 PM >

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RE: Europa 1947 for TOAW IV - 8/9/2019 7:49:07 PM

larryfulkerson

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quote:

....I've created coastal fortifications that also have a few seaplanes built into their TO/E....

Say what? I'm confused as to what you're trying to describe here. You have one unit that has "seaplanes" as part of it's equipment? I'd like to see an editor's unit display picture of that unit to help me understand what you have created.

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RE: Europa 1947 for TOAW IV - 8/9/2019 7:55:27 PM

VHauser

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Sorry. I forgot to upload the file. Here it is:

Attachment (1)

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RE: Europa 1947 for TOAW IV - 8/9/2019 8:35:39 PM

larryfulkerson

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quote:

ORIGINAL: VHauser
Sorry. I forgot to upload the file. Here it is:

Wow. That thing is a fortress indeed. BTW, WTF is "fortifications"? Something you created? And you have room for 120 of them simultaneously... Enquiring minds want to know.

My guess is that your Blohm & Voss 46's will function perfectly normally. I'm not familiar with that particular aircraft but I'm assuming you're going to use it in the SEA INT role and I see no problems at all with using it that way, in fact I congratulate you for your innovation. I think it's a great idea. You're a gift to the community. Keep those great ideas coming. Please.

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RE: Europa 1947 for TOAW IV - 8/10/2019 10:49:21 PM

VHauser

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Scenario Crashed.

I'm not all all certain what caused the crash. My initial thought was that the mixed TO/Es I was experimenting with that caused it. But the more time I spend trying to recover from the crash, I'm beginning to suspect that it's a faulty formation (in this case, the British 2nd Army) that's the problem. Just to be sure, though, I've deleted all mixed TO/Es from the scenario for the time being.

In the months that I've been working on this scenario, I've noticed that some formations are problematic. Sometimes, units "bleed over" from one formation into another. Meaning that some units show up twice, even though there is only one unit it shows up in two formations. I think that's what's crashing the scenario. Anyway, I've spent (wasted) most of today trying to stabilize the scenario. I try to build some "wasted" time into my time estimates for you guys, but it's stressful and frustrating when it happens. Oh well.

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RE: Europa 1947 for TOAW IV - 8/10/2019 10:52:26 PM

larryfulkerson

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quote:

"Sometimes, units 'bleed over' from one formation into another. Meaning that some units show up twice, even though there is only one unit it shows up in two formations...."

What is your procedure to "fix" such a situation? Delete the unit and then rebuild it again?

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RE: Europa 1947 for TOAW IV - 8/11/2019 12:29:23 PM

VHauser

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Well it turns out that it was another formation (not the British 2nd Army) that was crashing the scenario. As far as I can tell, my mixed TO/Es were not the problem. That doesn't mean that those mixed TO/Es have been crash tested yet.

Anyway, this particular problem had to do with adding units to a broken formation and then trying to put those added units on the map. Crash!

Larry,
The fix to the "double unit" problem is relatively easy. Simply "neuter" that unit. By that, I mean have it enter the game on the last turn in an improbable location. Trying to delete the double unit just transfers the problem to the next unit in your OOB, so don't do that. Just neuter it and move on. I have about a dozen neutered double units in my OOB so far.

The crash problem I was facing this time was much harder to deal with--a whole formation that was broken. The only solution I know is to quarantine the formation. First, duplicate all the units in the formation. Second, move the duplicates (not the originals) to another formation. Third, delete all the originals except one (do NOT delete that formation, you need a place holder). Fourth, neuter that place holder just like it was a double unit. Fifth, assign all the duplicates to a new formation. Good to go.

I blame Norm for a lot of things. I think he made a lot of stupid game choices, like in-hex rivers, armor defense values, transportation values, etc. But I don't blame him for broken formations and double units, etc. Why not? Because the game code is OLD, and has been transported to all sorts of different platforms over the years. Nobody (well maybe Root or Harold Finch) could write code robust enough to be glitch free after all that.

Anyway, I'm back to working on the British-equipped OOB.

< Message edited by VHauser -- 8/11/2019 12:35:44 PM >

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RE: Europa 1947 for TOAW IV - 8/12/2019 9:35:28 AM

Jo van der Pluym

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quote:

ORIGINAL: VHauser

Well it turns out that it was another formation (not the British 2nd Army) that was crashing the scenario. As far as I can tell, my mixed TO/Es were not the problem. That doesn't mean that those mixed TO/Es have been crash tested yet.

Anyway, this particular problem had to do with adding units to a broken formation and then trying to put those added units on the map. Crash!

Larry,
The fix to the "double unit" problem is relatively easy. Simply "neuter" that unit. By that, I mean have it enter the game on the last turn in an improbable location. Trying to delete the double unit just transfers the problem to the next unit in your OOB, so don't do that. Just neuter it and move on. I have about a dozen neutered double units in my OOB so far.

The crash problem I was facing this time was much harder to deal with--a whole formation that was broken. The only solution I know is to quarantine the formation. First, duplicate all the units in the formation. Second, move the duplicates (not the originals) to another formation. Third, delete all the originals except one (do NOT delete that formation, you need a place holder). Fourth, neuter that place holder just like it was a double unit. Fifth, assign all the duplicates to a new formation. Good to go.

I blame Norm for a lot of things. I think he made a lot of stupid game choices, like in-hex rivers, armor defense values, transportation values, etc. But I don't blame him for broken formations and double units, etc. Why not? Because the game code is OLD, and has been transported to all sorts of different platforms over the years. Nobody (well maybe Root or Harold Finch) could write code robust enough to be glitch free after all that.

Anyway, I'm back to working on the British-equipped OOB.

VHauser what do you mean with "neuter"?

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RE: Europa 1947 for TOAW IV - 8/12/2019 5:51:17 PM

VHauser

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Jo van der Pluym,

I mean that a neutered unit still exists in the OOB, but it serves no function in the game except to occupy a slot in the OOB. Since all units in a scenario need to be deployed for the scenario to be valid, the easiest way to neuter a unit is to have it arrive on the last turn of the game in a useless location.

If you only play scenarios and are not a scenario developer, then you don't need to worry about neutered units. You will never see them and will never know that they even exist.

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RE: Europa 1947 for TOAW IV - 8/13/2019 7:21:02 PM

Jo van der Pluym

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VHauser

Thanks for the explanation.

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RE: Europa 1947 for TOAW IV - 8/14/2019 7:12:35 PM

VHauser

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India.
Historically, Britain promised Indian independence as soon as the war ended (1945). It took two years (1947) for that transition from colony to independent nation to happen. The situation in C47 is different because the war is still being fought. Even if the British make the same promise in C47, and I'm postulating that they did, when does Indian independence happen? This is a question that has no easy answer. However, I have to answer it somehow. As of today, I think that the British would try to keep India fighting for the Commonwealth for as long as possible. But I also think that at some point India will grow increasingly impatient. I'm confident that that is unlikely to happen in 1947, but probably before 1950. In any event, I'll have to change the Europa 1947 event parameters at some point.

German minor allies.
I'm convinced that the Belgian, Dutch, and French forces shown in Europa 1947 as German allies is incorrect. There were no significant segments of the populations of those nations who would reliably fight for the Germans. So, I've deleted all Belgian, Dutch, and French minor allies from the Axis OOB. However, I've created a small SS brigade for each of those nations (SS Belgische, SS Holandisch, SS Vichy) in their place.

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RE: Europa 1947 for TOAW IV - 8/16/2019 1:34:58 PM

VHauser

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Italian co-belligerents.
Turns out that the Italian co-belligerent forces were trained and equipped by the British and not by the USA. 20 years ago I was working on a spin-off of the Europa boardgame series called "Pacifica" (by that time I was no longer working for GR/D). I was getting paid to take data compiled by the person who was bankrolling the project and develop it into a workable game.

Anyway, Pacifica never made it to market. The main reason was because our bankroller got so involved with OOB research that he basically gave up on everything else. It's very easy for anybody to lose themselves in OOB research. That's another reason why I prefer hypothetical scenarios like C47--you aren't tied to history and have some "flexibility" regarding OOBs. But basic stuff like Italian co-belligerents has to be correct. Even hypothetical scenarios have to pass the smell-test of plausibility.

For now, I'm still confident that I'll be finished with the Commonwealth OOB by the end of the month.

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RE: Europa 1947 for TOAW IV - 8/19/2019 12:20:14 PM

VHauser

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I changed the name of SS Vichy to SS Frankreich. Why am I fooling with Axis OOB stuff when I'm supposed to be working on the Commonwealth OOB? Well, when I was looking at Italian co-belligerent forces, I found some related material on Italian RSI forces. And that led me to Axis minor Allies in general, much the same way that researching partisans several months ago led me to re-working the whole movement ratings. But I'm still working on the Commonwealth OOB as my main focus.

Speaking of partisans, I was tempted to scrap partisans altogether. I generally agree with folks who think that partisans are an unnecessary sideshow. However, I've decided to leave partisans in the game for now. I can always scrap them later.

Also, I'm constantly checking and cross-checking how my re-organized Commonwealth combat ratings are comparing to all my other combat ratings and benchmarks. So far, so good.

I'm getting closer to how I want to handle the Indian independence event.

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RE: Europa 1947 for TOAW IV - 8/20/2019 11:43:36 PM

VHauser

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I just read the coastal artillery thread in the main sub-forum. Since C47 includes a LOT of coastal fortifications, this is another potential game-breaker (a la the mess with transportation values that I'm still in the process of trying to make playable).

I'm going to take some time to evaluate the coastal fortification situation. The British OOB re-organization (all these months of re-organizations are intended to provide playable transportation values) is on hold for the time being. Ugh.

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RE: Europa 1947 for TOAW IV - 8/21/2019 1:32:58 PM

VHauser

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After spending several hours examining the coastal fort situation--yeah, this is a serious problem.

I have several ideas how to work around this problem, but each of those work-arounds has poisonous side effects. This is yet another issue that has brought this scenario to a standstill.

I'd really appreciate your input/ideas.

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RE: Europa 1947 for TOAW IV - 8/24/2019 2:19:48 PM

VHauser

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Coastal forts.
I've come up with a useable solution to the coastal fort problem. I'll figure out the best way to implement it when I get back to working on the Axis OOBs.

Supply points.
Supply points are an ongoing source of headaches for me. One problem is that each supply point can supply an infinite number of units. Another problem is determining what level of supply a particular supply point can provide. Another problem is that each side is limited to 400 supply points. On a map the size of C47 and its associated enormous coastline, this is a serious limitation.

Anyway, I'm doing well with re-organizing the Commonwealth OOB and I should be finished by next weekend.

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RE: Europa 1947 for TOAW IV - 8/25/2019 6:08:31 PM

Spiffing Brit

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Wow man, your dedication to this scenario is legendary! While I am not knowledgeable enough on the coastal fort situation to comment, I will give my 2 cents on the axis allies situation. historically, there were enough collaborators in Belgium to make a Waffen SS Division, and with the extra time provided I think it could become a whole Corps. France on the other hand has no occupation govt, but I think after the truce they would put Darlan in charge, as he was an actual traitor unlike Petain. He could muster up enough anti-English sentiment to outfit about an Army's worth of men. Their equipment would be old Souma-S35's im sure, but they would still be there.

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RE: Europa 1947 for TOAW IV - 8/25/2019 6:59:59 PM

VHauser

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Spiffing Brit

Wow man, your dedication to this scenario is legendary! While I am not knowledgeable enough on the coastal fort situation to comment, I will give my 2 cents on the axis allies situation. historically, there were enough collaborators in Belgium to make a Waffen SS Division, and with the extra time provided I think it could become a whole Corps. France on the other hand has no occupation govt, but I think after the truce they would put Darlan in charge, as he was an actual traitor unlike Petain. He could muster up enough anti-English sentiment to outfit about an Army's worth of men. Their equipment would be old Souma-S35's im sure, but they would still be there.

That is not the problem. Operation Torch (the Vichy French basically threw down their weapons, and they scuttled the French Fleet) convinced the Germans that none of the Western nations were politically reliable. Sure, they could round up warm bodies and give them rifles, but as soon as the Americans/British showed up they would surrender/defect. There is no point creating units that will simply evaporate upon contact with the "enemy".

The Germans quickly realized (after Torch) that occupied populations were more useful to them as forced labor than as soldiers. As for the SS, they always had problems keeping "foreign" SS units up to strength. However, I've added a small number of "foreign" SS units to account for any additional success the Germans might have achieved with local populations.

As an addenda, the original Europa 1947 gave the Axis a number of naval and air units to their Western "Allies". To me this is silly because those naval/air units would immediately defect given the first chance they got. Those were among the first "Axis" units I deleted from the OOB for C47.

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RE: Europa 1947 for TOAW IV - 8/27/2019 6:26:41 PM

VHauser

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This scenario is going to need a lot of cooperation from players. My list of House Rules keeps growing and will require a separate readme sheet in the scenario folder. I believe that the House Rules will make the game more interesting and, yes, challenging. Larry is one person I think I can count on to post an AAR using the House Rules (if I can ever finish this monster). I don't want to get ahead of myself here, because I'm a long way from finishing.

Anyway, I think I've finally come up with a way to handle Allied invasions. The Allies will receive a few "amphibious logistics" naval units at various times (and after various events). These AMPHLOG units will sail to the vicinity of an intended invasion site, and the Allies will be able to invade at any anchorage within 3 hexes of an AMPHLOG unit's location at the start of a turn. AMPHLOG units will be very weak and easily destroyed, which means that the Allies need to achieve air/naval superiority to protect them, which won't be easy.

I'm still on schedule to finish re-organizing the Commonwealth OOB by this weekend.

Attachment (1)

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RE: Europa 1947 for TOAW IV - 8/28/2019 8:33:27 PM

VHauser

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I've further refined my House Rules for invasions. Basically, an invasion can be performed within 8 hexes of a friendly 100%-supplied port. This does not require the use of an AMPHLOG unit. An AMPHLOG unit is only needed if the player wants to perform an invasion beyond 8 hexes from a 100%-supplied port. The attached image shows how this works (as well as giving you an idea why I'm struggling with the 400 supply-point limit).

Portsmouth is a 100% supply point. All other English ports connected by rail to Portsmouth (or Liverpool) are, thus, 100%-supplied ports. 8 hexes from any port from Portsmouth to Great Yarmouth puts the entire Atlantikwall from Cherbourg to the outskirts of Rotterdam at risk of invasion without having to use an AMPHLOG unit. However, if the player wants to invade at St. Brieuc and St. Malo, then he would have to start a turn with an AMPHLOG unit within 3 hexes of those ports. Which means that the AMPHLOG unit would have to move there in the previous turn and survive until the start of the turn of the intended invasion. [There are weather restrictions as well, but those can be explained later.]