Swiss Battalion TO&E circa 1980's

Matrix Games Forums

Forums Register Login Photo Gallery Member List Search Calendars FAQ

My Profile Inbox Address Book My Subscription My Forums Log Out

Swiss Battalion TO&E circa 1980's

View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest

Users viewing this topic: none

Printable Version

All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> The Operational Art of War IV >> Mods and Scenarios >> Swiss Battalion TO&E circa 1980's

Page: [1] 2 next > >>

Message

<< Older Topic Newer Topic >>

Swiss Battalion TO&E circa 1980's - 9/27/2019 4:48:27 AM

akdreemer

Posts: 1028
Joined: 10/3/2004
From: Anchorage, Alaska
Status: offline

Looking for Battalion level organization for Swiss Army. I pretty much got Brigade and above. The only one I have been to find was for the Bicycle Regiments.

Thanks

Post #: 1

RE: Swiss Battalion TO&E circa 1980's - 9/27/2019 9:38:05 PM

winkelried

Posts: 59
Joined: 8/10/2007
Status: offline

from memory (maybe i didn't get everything right) the infantry regiments

Infanterie Regiment (Infantry Regiment)

1x Infanterie Batallion
...1x Stabskompanie (no clue)
...1x Nachrichtenkompanie (Recon Coy)
...1x Grenadierkompanie (Assault Infantry 3x platoons, 1x heavy platoon???)
...1x Panzerabwehrkompanie (Anti Tank Coy up 1980 with 10.5cm recoilless on Jeep, afterwards Dragon ATGM motorized 9-12 guns/ATGM not sure - conversion started in 1981)
...1x Flabkompanie (AA company up to 1979) afterwards 1x Schwere Minenwerferkompanie (6x12 cm heavy mortars) for mountain troops - not sure if the others got this too.

3x F�silier/Sch�tzen Batallion (Sch�tzen was a historical designation, TO&E was the same)
...1x Stabskompanie (HQ Coy, some recon)
...3x F�silier/Sch�tzenkompanie (3x platoons with 6x rocket tubes each - bazookas each mostly on foot, 1xheavy platoon with 4x heavy MG 51 maybe more, was motorized)
...1x schwere F�silier/Sch�tzenkompanie (heavy company 6x8.1cm mortars motorized)

on divisional level
1x Panzerabwehrkompanie (anti tank coy with Bantam ATGM)

what else do you need?

< Message edited by winkelried -- 9/27/2019 9:39:55 PM >

_____________________________

Honneur et Fid�lit�

(in reply to akdreemer)

Post #: 2

RE: Swiss Battalion TO&E circa 1980's - 9/27/2019 11:24:57 PM

akdreemer

Posts: 1028
Joined: 10/3/2004
From: Anchorage, Alaska
Status: offline

Did infantry regiments have additional units like ATGM companies, Anti-Tank companies, etc? I know the Bicycle Regiments had a company of TOW.

Tank Ban is needed
Mech Bn is needed
Mountain BN is needed

I seen a photo of 11 Mech Div on parade in 1988 and they still had jeeps with 106RCL.

Thanks

(in reply to winkelried)

Post #: 3

RE: Swiss Battalion TO&E circa 1980's - 9/28/2019 2:41:28 AM

winkelried

Posts: 59
Joined: 8/10/2007
Status: offline

Yes you have a point on the ATGM. The Dragon was introduced as fourth company in the F�silier/Sch�tzen Batallion (only in the F�silier/Sch�tzen Bat of the Feld Armeekorps and the Gebirgs Infanterie Batallion in the Mountain Divisions) and the TOW replaced the recoilless 105 in 1991. Between 1985 and 1986 they assigned additional 48 Dragon companies to the Combat Brigades.

Tank Bns came in three flavours

Type A (in the Mech Div) with 2x Panzer Kompanie Typ C with 13x Pz61 or Pz68 each in all their flavours (being replaced by Leopards after 1987), 2x Panzer Grenadier Kp with 13x M113 (maybe less) each and (here I am not sure) 1x Heavy Panzerminenwerferkompanie with 4x120 mm mortars on M113 (could also be 6 mortars - I am not sure - same for Typ B).

Type B (the counterstrike Bn in the Feld Div) with 2x Panzer Kompanie Typ B with 13x Pz61 or Pz68 each in all their flavours, 2x Panzer Grenadier Kp with 15 M113 (maybe less) each and 1x Heavy Panzerminenwerferkompanie with 4x120 mm mortars on M113 + 1x Panzer Dienstkompanie (logistics, repair etc.)

Type C (the mobile armored AT Bn in the Feld Div) with 3x Panzer Kompanie Typ C with 13x Centurion each. Usually those companies were subordinated to the Infanterie Regiments as mobile AT elements.

I think each Bn had 2x additional tanks for the batallion cmdr + a few M113.

The Panzer Regiment was formed by two Panzer Batallion Typ A. The regimental Stabskompanie had 4 Bridgelaying Pz 68.

You have the info on the Arty etc.?

_____________________________

Honneur et Fid�lit�

(in reply to akdreemer)

Post #: 4

RE: Swiss Battalion TO&E circa 1980's - 9/28/2019 2:43:25 AM

winkelried

Posts: 59
Joined: 8/10/2007
Status: offline

For the Mountain Bn I don't have a clue. But probably the were pretty similar to the standard F�silier/Sch�tzen Bn - no reason to keep them different. The only difference I remember was, that they had Train Horses in the HQ Coy.

< Message edited by winkelried -- 9/28/2019 2:44:49 AM >

_____________________________

Honneur et Fid�lit�

(in reply to akdreemer)

Post #: 5

RE: Swiss Battalion TO&E circa 1980's - 9/28/2019 2:53:08 AM

winkelried

Posts: 59
Joined: 8/10/2007
Status: offline

On divisional level you had the following units:

HQ Bn with 2x HQ Coy (Basically infantry with some HMG and dog handlers to man 2x HQ), 1x recon coy (Jeeps & foot), 1x police coy (traffic control), 1x transport coy (lots of trucks).

Engineer Bn (three coys i believe, one coy were armored Engineers in the Mech Div)

Light AA Bn (3x or 4x12x 20mm Flak - I think they replaced those with the Rapier for the Mech Div)

Signals Bn

Feld Div then had
3x Infanterie Regiment
1x Artillerie Regiment (by the end of the 1980 fully equipped with M-109)

Mech Div had
2x Panzer Regiment
1x Motorisierte Infanterie Regiment
1x Artillerie Regiment

Geb Div had
3x Gebirgs Infanterie Regiment
1x Gebirgs Artillerie Regiment

_____________________________

Honneur et Fid�lit�

(in reply to winkelried)

Post #: 6

RE: Swiss Battalion TO&E circa 1980's - 9/28/2019 5:26:27 AM

akdreemer

Posts: 1028
Joined: 10/3/2004
From: Anchorage, Alaska
Status: offline

Here is a start of what I have so far (circa 1990) Army troops and Field Armee Korps 1
Heereseinheiten
� Army Headquarters Regiment
o Army Headquarters Regiment 11
o Army Headquarters Regiment 12
o Army Headquarters Regiment 13
o Army Headquarters Regiment 14
� Infantry Regiment 16
o Infantry Battalion 16
o Fusilier Battalion 37
o Fusilier Battalion 38
o Fusilier Battalion 39
� Engineer Regiment 5
o Engineer Battalion 31
o Engineer Battalion 32
o Bridging Battalion 65
� Engineer Regiment 6
o Engineer Battalion 33
o Engineer Battalion 34
o Bridging Battalion 66
� Engineer Regiment 7
o Engineer Battalion 35
o Engineer Battalion 36
o Bridging Battalion 67
Field Armee Korps 1 (FAK 1)
� 14th Infantry Regiment
� 4th Cyclist Regiment
o Anti-Tank Co (12xTOW, 12)
o I (27 MC Squads, 12 MMG, 12 Dragon II, 9 81mm Mortar)
o II (27 MC Squads 12 MMG, 12 Dragon II, 9 81mm Mortar)
o III (27 MC Squads12 MMG, 12 Dragon II, 9 81mm Mortar)
� 1st Engineer Regiment
o Engineer Battalion
o Miner Battalion
o Bridge Battalion
� 1st Signals Battalion
� 1st Medical Battalion
� 1st Supply and Transport Battalion
� 1st Traffic Control Battalion
� 1st Helicopter Squadron (12 Alouette II/III)
� 1st Light Aircraft Flight
� 1st Air Defense Battalion
� 2nd Air Defense Battalion
Field Division 2 (FDiv 2)
� Recon Battalion 3
� Panzer Bat 21
� Genie Bat 3
� Mob Light Flak Bat 3
� Anti-Tank Company 2 (?)
� Genie Battalion 2
� Infantry Regiment 3
o Infantry Battalion 3
o Infantry Battalion 10
o Infantry Battalion 13
o Infantry Battalion 182
� Infantry Regiment 8
o Infantry Battalion 18
o Infantry Battalion 19
o Infantry Battalion 20
� Infantry Regiment 9
o Infantry Battalion 21
o Infantry Battalion 22
o Infantry Battalion 24
� Artillery Regiment 2 (m109?)
Felddivision 3 (F Div 3)
� Recon Battalion
� Tank Battalion
� Engineer Battalion
� Anti-Tank Company
� Mobile Light Flak Battalion
� Fusilier Battalion
� Infantry Regiment 13
o Infantry Battalion 25
o Infantry Battalion 26
o Infantry Battalion 27
� Infantry Regiment 14
o Infantry Battalion 28
o Infantry Battalion 29
o Infantry Battalion 30
� Infantry Regiment 15
o Infantry Battalion 31
o Infantry Battalion 32
o Infantry Battalion 33
� Artillery Regiment 3
Mechanisierte Division 1 (Mech Div 1)
� Mechanized Rgt 13: M113
� Panzer Regiment 1: Pz68
� Panzer Regiment 7: Pz68
� Artillery Rgt. 1 M-109
Territorialzone 1 (Ter Zo 1)
Grenzbrigade 1 (Gz Br 1)
� Infantry Regiment 41
� Infantry Regiment 70
� Infantry Regiment 71
� F�silierbataillon 302
� Festungskompanie 101 (12 cm Festungsminenwerfer)
� Werkkompanien 1, 2, 3
� Artilleriewerk: Artilleriewerk Pr�-Giroud A 577
� Sperrstellen (Sperrstellen von nationaler Bedeutung mit *[3]): Aubonne, Ballaigues, Bassins, Begnins*, Bi�re, Buchillons, Chateau St. Croix, Col de L'Aiguillon, Col des Etroits*, Col du Marchairuz, Col du Mollendruz, Dullive*, Gland*, Gittaz Dessus, Grange Neuve, L'Abbaye, La Combaz, La Cula, La Jougnene, La Languetine, La Lignerolle*, La Magnena, La Mathoulaz, La Pouette, La Poyette, La Sagne, La Vaux, Le Cunay, Le Ch�telard, Le Day*, Le Brassus, Les C�tes, Les Envers, Les Naz, Les Praises, Les Praz, Les Rasses, Mauborget, Mont Tendre, Le Pont, Mont d�Or, Paquier aux Vaux, Petra Felix*[4], Perly, Promenthouse*, Saint-George, Sur le Tour, Th�nex, Vaulion, Galerie Vaulion, Versoix.[5]
Grenzbrigade 2 (Gz Br 2)
� Infanterieregimenter 44, 45
� Genieabteilung 42
� vier Grenadierkompanien
� F�silierbataillon 302
� Festungskompanie 102 (12 cm Festungsminenwerfer)
� Werkkompanien 4, 5
� Sperrstellen (Sperrstellen von nationaler Bedeutung mit *)[2]: Belleroche, Boinod, Bregot, Brot Dessous, Buttes, Chambrelien, Chan�laz, Chaumont, Corps de Garde, Col des Roches, Combe aux Fies, Combe Biosse, Cortaillod, Cucheroud, Erlach-Jolimont*, Gampelen*, Grand Suvagnier, Haut de la Tour*, La Baume, La Clusette*, La Chaux-de-Fonds, La Combe-L�onard, La C�te aux-F�es, L'Engolieu, La Molta, La Sauge, Le Coeufier, Le Furcil, Les Brenetets, Les Bugnenets, Les Convers, Les Eroges, Mauvaise-Combe, Neuenburg, Noiraigue, Pertuis, Pont de la Roche, Quarteron Provence, Valangin*, Vue des Alpes*[3
Grenzbrigade 3 (Gz Br 3)
� Infantry Regiment 43 (bis 1947 bei Grenzbrigade 2),
� Infantry Regiment 46,
� Infantry Regiment 90
� Festungsabteilung 103
� Festungskompanie I/103,
� Festungshaubitzenbatterie II/103 (105mm How)
� Werkkompanien 6, 7, 8
� Artilleriewerk: Plainbois A 1433
� Sperrstellen (Sperrstellen von nationaler Bedeutung mit *)[2]: Bourrignon, Ch�telat*, Choindez, Frinvillier*, G�nsbrunnen*, Gorges de Court, Gorges de Moutier, Goumois, Hasenburg, La Combe/Montfaucon, La R�selle, La Rossmatte, La Verriere, Le Pichoux, Les Forges, Les Grangettes, Les Pontins, Les Rangiers*, Mervelier, Mettembert, Petite Douanne, Pleigne, Pont des Anabaptistes, Port des Enfers, Rogne Maison, Sonceboz*, Vorbourg-Soyhi�res*, St. Brais, St. Ursanne, Tiergarten, Vellerat,[3

(in reply to winkelried)

Post #: 7

RE: Swiss Battalion TO&E circa 1980's - 9/28/2019 5:28:18 AM

akdreemer

Posts: 1028
Joined: 10/3/2004
From: Anchorage, Alaska
Status: offline

FAK 2
Field Armee Korps 2 (FAK 2)
� 27 Infantry Regiment
� 5th Cyclist Regiment
o Anti-Tank Co (12xTOW)
o I (27 MC Squads, 12 MMG, 27 Dragon II, 9 81mm Mortar)
o II (27 MC Squads, 12 MMG, 27 Dragon II, 9 81mm Mortar)
o III (27 MC Squads, 12 MMG, 27 Dragon II, 9 81mm Mortar)
� 2nd Engineer Regiment
� 2nd Signals battalion
� 2nd Medical battalion
� 2nd Supply and transport battalion
� 2nd traffic control battalion
� 2nd Helicopter squadron (12x Alouette II/III)
� 2nd Light aircraft flight
� 3rd Air Defense Battalion
� 4th Air Defense Battalion
Felddivision 5 (F Div 5)
� Infantry Regiment 22
� Infantry Regiment 23
� Infantry Regiment 24
� Panzerbataillon 5
� Artillerieregiment 5
� Mobile Leichte Fliegerabwehrabteilung 5
� Genienbn 5
Felddivision 8 (F Div 8)
� Infantry Regiment 11
� Infantry Regiment 19
� Infantry Regiment 21
� Artillery Regiment 8
Mechanisierte Division 4 (Mech Div 4), 1962�1994
� 14th Mechanized Rgt
� 3rd Armored Rgt.
� 4th Armored Rgt.
� 4th Artillery Rgt. M-109
� 4 Genie Bn
Territorialzone 2 (TerZo 2)
Border Brigade 4 (GzBr 4)
� Stab Gz Br 4
� Stab Basilisk ad hoc
� Stabs Battalion Grenz Brigade 4 ad hoc
� Fusilier Battalion 304
� ATGW Battalion 4 ad hoc (4 Companies each 12 Bntam II ATGM)
� NSD Bat 4 ad hoc
� Grenadier Battalion 44
� Security Battalion 4
o Security Company 19
o Security Company 20
o Security Company 21
o Security Company 22
� Infantry Regiment 47
o Fusilier Battalion 243
o Fusilier Battalion 245
� Infantry Regiment 48
o Fusilier Battalion 139
o Fusilier Battalion 244
o Fusilier Battalion 257
� Infantry Regiment 49
o Fusilier Battalion 177
o Fusilier Battalion 248
o Fusilier Battalion 249
� Fortress Bat 104 (12 cm Fest Mw)
Border Brigade 5 (GzBr 5)
� Infantry Regiment 50
� Infantry Regiment 73
� Infantry Regiment 79
� 50, 51, 52, 53, 54 ATGW Company (12 Dragon II or Bantam ATGM)
� 55, 56 AT Company (12 90mm ATG)
� Fortress Artillery Battalion 45 (6 12 cm Fest Mw)
� Watch Company23, 24, 25, 26
� Aufkl Kp III/5 (F Div 5)
� PAL Kp 44 (FAK 2)
� Du Pz Hb Abt 32 (FAK 2)

(in reply to akdreemer)

Post #: 8

RE: Swiss Battalion TO&E circa 1980's - 9/28/2019 5:28:43 AM

akdreemer

Posts: 1028
Joined: 10/3/2004
From: Anchorage, Alaska
Status: offline

Mountain Armee Korps 3 (GebAK 3)
� 37th Mountain Infantry Regiment
a. Mountain Infantry Battalion 6
b. Mountain Infantry battalion 11
c. Mountain Infantry Battalion 48
� 3rd Engineer Regiment
� Cable Car Battalion
� 3rd Signals Battalion
� 3rd Medical Battalion
� 3rd Supply and Transport Battalion
� 3rd Traffic Control Battalion
� 3rd Helicopter Squadron (12 Alouette II/III)
� 3rd Light Aircraft Flight
Mountain Division 9 (GebDiv 9: Fest Br 23 + GzBr 9)
� Division HQ Battalion 19
� Signals Battalion 19
� Train Battalion 19
� Engineer Battalion 19
� Anti-Tank Battalion 19 (?)
� Mobile Light Air Defense Battalion 19
� Material and Supply Battalion 19
� Motor Transport Battalion 19
� Mountain Regiment Bernese Oberland
� Mountain Regiment Oberwalliser / Berner
� Mountain Regiment Schwyzer / Zuger
� Mountain Regiment T
�
Mountain Division 10 (GebDiv 10)
� Division HQ Battalion 11
� Signals Battalion 11
� Train Battalion 11
� Engineer Battalion 11
� Anti-Tank Battalion 11
� Mobile Light Air Defense Battalion 11
� Material and Supply Battalion 11
� Motor Transport Battalion 11
� Infantry Regiment 7.
o Infantry Battalion 14
o Infantry Battalion 15
o Infantry Battalion 16
� Mountain Infantry Regiment 5
o Mountain Infantry Battalion 7
o Mountain Infantry Battalion 8
o Mountain Infantry Battalion 9
� Mountain Infantry Regiment 6
� Mountain Infantry Battalion 6
� Mountain Infantry Battalion 11
� Mountain Infantry Battalion 12
� Artillery Regiment 10
Mountain Division 12 (GebDiv12)
� Division HQ Battalion 12
� Signals Battalion 12
� Train Battalion 12
� Engineer Battalion 12
� Anti-Tank Battalion 12 (?)
� Mobile Light Air Defense Battalion 12
� Material and Supply Battalion 12
� Motor Transport Battalion 12
� Mountain Infantry Regiment 35 (GebRgt 35)
o Medical Company 35
o Mountain Fusilier Battalion 8
o Mountain Fusilier Battalion 85
o Mountain Fusilier Battalion 112
� Mountain Infantry Regiment 36
o Medical Company 36
o Mountain Fusilier Battalion 91
o Mountain Fusilier Battalion 92
o Mountain Fusilier Battalion 93
� Mountain Infantry Regiment 37
o Medical Company 37
o Mountain Security Battalion 6
o Mountain Security Battalion 10
o Mountain Security Battalion 11
� Artillery Regiment 12
� Artillery Regiment 16
Territorialzone 9 (Ter Zo 9)
Territorialzone 10 (Ter Zo 10, nur Brigadengr�sse)
Territorialzone 12 (Ter Zo 12, nur Brigadengr�sse)
Border Brigade 9 (Gz Br 9)
� Watch Company 30, 61, 62, 63
� Fortress Battalion 9
o Fortress Company I/9 LONA-Stellung
o Fortress Company II/9 LONA-Stellung,
o Fortress Company III/9 (6 12 cm Fortress Mw 12 cm)
o Fortress Company IV/9 (105mm How)
o Fortress Company V/9 (105mm How)
o Fortress Company VI/9 (105mm How)
Border Brigade 11 (GzBr 11)
� HQ and HQ Battalion GzBr 11
� Border Signal Company 11
� Watch Company 31 (Simplon-Gondo)
� Engineer Battalion 51
o HO and HQ Company
o Sapper Company I/51,
o Miner Company II/51,
o Construction III/51,
o Cable Car Company IV/51
� Mountain Grenadier Company I/11
� ATGM Company II/11 (12 x Bantam)
� AA Batterie III/11 (12 x 20mm AA Towed)
� Mountain Infantry Regiment 66
o Mountain Border Fusilier Battalion 207
o Mountain Border Fusilier Battalion 208
o Mountain Border Fusilier Battalion 209
o Mountain Border Fusilier Battalion 210
� Fortress Battalion 26
o Fortress Heavy Battery I/26 (Art Wk Naters),
o Fortress Company II/26 (6 120mm Fortress Mw)
o Fortress Company III/26
o Fortress Company IV/26
� Mule Train Column I/41 und II/41
Border Brigade 12 (Gz Br 12)
� Watch Company 32, 33, 34, 35
� Fortress Battalion 112
o Fortress Company I/112 (Art Wk Crestawald)
o Fortress Company II/112 (120mm Fortress Mw),
o Fortress Company III/112
o Fortress Company IV/112
o Fortress Company V/112 (105mm How).
Festungsbrigade 10 (Fest Br 10)
� Watch Company 55, 56, 57, 58, 59
� Fortress Regiment 19
o Fortress Battalion 1
 Fortress Company I/1
 Fortress Company II/1
 Fortress Company III/1
 Fortress Company IV/1
 Fortress Company V/1 (105mm How)
o Fortress Battalion 2
 Fortress Company I/2
 Fortress Company II/2
 Fortress Company III/2
o Fortress Battalion 3
 Fortress Company I/3
 Fortress Company II/3 (105mm How)
o Fortress Battalion 4
 Fortress Company I/4
o Fortress Battalion 22
 Fortress Company I/22
 Fortress Company II/22 (120mm Fortress Mw)
Fortress Brigade 13 (FestBr 13)
� HQ and HQ Battalion FestBr 13
� Watch Company 50, 51, 52, 53
� Fortress Regiment 20
o Fortress Battalion 11
 Fortress Company I/11
 Fortress Company II/11
 Fortress Company III/11
o Fortress Battalion 12
 Fortress Company I/12
 Fortress Company II/12
 Fortress Company III/12
o Fortress Battalion 13
 Fortress Company I/13
 Fortress Company II/13
o Fortress Battalion 27 (Castels)
 Fortress Company I/27,
 Fortress Artillery Company II/27
 Fortress D Company III/27)
o Fortress Battalion 28 (Magletsch)
 Fortress Company I/28
 Fortress Artillery Company II/28
 Fortress D Company III/28
o Fortress Battalion 29 (Furkels)
 Fortress Company I/29
 Fortress Artillery Company II/29
 Fortress D Company III/29
Redoubt Brigade 21 (R Br 21)
� Watch Company 9, 10, 11, 12
� Fortress Regiment 21 (KP Heinrich)
o Fortress Battalion 8 Jaun
 Fortress Company I/8
 Fortress Company II/8
 Fortress Company III/8
 Fortress Company IV/8
o Fortress Battalion 14
 Fortress Company I/14
 Fortress Company II/14
 Fortress Company III/14
o Fortress Battalion 15 Thunersee linkes Ufer
 Fortress Company I/15
 Fortress Company II/15
 Fortress Company III/15
o Fortress Battalion 24
 Fortress Company I/24
 Fortress Artillery Company II/24
 Fortress Artillery Company III/24
 Fortress Company IV/24
Redoubt Brigade 22 (R Br 22)
� Fusilier Battalion 189
� Mountain Fusilier Battalion 47
� Watch Company 27
� Engineer Battalion 62
� Infantry Regiment 78
� Mountain Infantry Regiment 7
� Fortress Regiment 22
o Fortress Battalion 10
 Fortress Company I/10
 Fortress Company II/10
 Fortress Company III/10
o Fortress Battalion 16 (Kp I/16, II/16, III/16 und IV/16)
o Fortress Battalion 23 (Fest Inf Kp I/23, Fest Art Kp II/23, Fest D Kp III/23 und Fest Kp IV/23)
Fortress Brigade 23 (F Br 23)
� Gebirgsf�silierbataillon 72
� Kampfgruppe Tunnel (Geb F�s Bat 87)
� Genieabteilung 63
� Kampfgruppe Infanterieregiment 69
� Kampfgruppe Infanterieregiment 81
� Kampfgruppe Infanterieregiment 87
� Kampfgruppe Infanterieregiment 29
� Festungsregiment 23
� Festungsflababteilung 23
Redoubt Brigade 24 (RBr 24)
� HQ and HQ Battalion RBr 24
� Watch Company 15, 46
� Engineer Battalion 64
� Infantry Regiment 79
� Infantry Regiment 83
� Fortress Regiment 24
o HQ and HQ Company 24
o Fortress Battalion 18
 Fortress Company I/18,
 Fortress Company II/18
 Fortress Company III/18
 Fortress Company IV/18
 Fortress Company V/18
 Fortress Company VI/18
o Fortress Battalion 19
 Fortress Company I/19
 Fortress Company II/19
 Fortress Company III/19
 Fortress Company IV/19

(in reply to akdreemer)

Post #: 9

RE: Swiss Battalion TO&E circa 1980's - 9/28/2019 5:29:19 AM

akdreemer

Posts: 1028
Joined: 10/3/2004
From: Anchorage, Alaska
Status: offline

Field Armee Corps 4 (FAK 4)
� ? Infantry Regiment
� 6th Cyclist Regiment
o Anti-Tank Co (12xTOW)
o I (27 MC Squads, 12x MMG, 27 Dragon II, 9 81mm Mortar)
o II (27 MC Squads, 12x MMG, 27 Dragon II, 9 81mm Mortar)
o III (27 MC Squads, 12x MMG, 27 Dragon II, 9 81mm Mortar)
� 4th Engineer Regiment
o Bridging Battalion
o Mining Battalion
� 4th Signals Regiment
� 4th Medical Regiment
� 4th Supply and Transport Battalion
� 4th Military Police Battalion (3 Co MP)
� 4th Helicopter Squadron (12 Alouette II/III)
� 4th Light Aircraft Flight
� 3rd Air Defense Battalion
o I/3 AD Battery (12 Rapier)
o II/3 AD Battery (12 M63/75 Twin 35mmAAG, 6 Skyguard)
o III/3 AD Battery (18 M58 20mm AAG)
� 4th Air Defense Battalion
o I/4 AD Battery (12 Rapier)
o II/4 AD Battery (12 M63/75 Twin 35mmAAG, 6 Skyguard)
o III/4 AD Battery (18 M58 20mm AAG)

Field Division 6 (FDiv 6)
� HQ Battalion 6
� Ant-Tank Battalion 6
� Mobile Light Air Defense Battalion 6 (20mm?)
� Engineer Regiment 4
� Infantry Regiment 26
o Infantry Battalion 66 (MOT?)
o Infantry Battalion 70
o Infantry Battalion 71
� Infantry Regiment 28
o Infantry Battalion 61
o Infantry Battalion 62
o Infantry Battalion 98
o Security Battalion 6
� Infantry Regiment 54
� Artillery Regiment 6 (M109)
Field Division 7 (FDiv 7)
� HQ and HQ Battalion
� Panzer Battalion 7
� Mot Light AA Battalion 7
� Genie Battalion 7
� Infantry Regiment 31
� Infantry Regiment 33
� Infantry Regiment 34
� Artillery Regiment 7
Mechanized Division 11 (MechDiv 11)
� HQ and HQ Battalion 11
� Motorized Light AA Battalion 11
� Engineer Battalion 11
� Mechanized Regiment 11:
o Anti-Tank Co 11
o I/11 Infantry Battalion (27 Squads, 12 MMG, 12 Dragon II, 6 SP 120mm Mortar, 6 TOW II, 45 M113 Various)
o II/11 Infantry Battalion (27 Squads, 12 MMG, 12 Dragon II, 6 SP 120mm Mortar, 6 TOW II, 45 M113 Various)
o III/11 Infantry Battalion ((27 Squads, 12 MMG, 12 Dragon II, 6 SP 120mm Mortar, 6 TOW II, 45 M113 Various)
� Panzer Regiment 3
o I/3 Panzer Battalion (Pz86)
o II/3 Panzer Battalion (Pz86)
o III/3 Panzer Battalion (Pz86)
� Panzer Regiment 12 (Pz86)
� Artillery Regiment 11 (M109A1S)
Territorial Zone 4 (TerZo 4)
Border Brigade 6 (GzBr 6)
� HQ and HQ Staff Border Brigade 6
� Grenadier Company I/6
� ATGM Company 61, 62, 63, 64, 65, 66, 67
� Anti-Tank Company II/6 and IV/6
� AA Battery III/6
� Fusilier Battalion 305
� Security Fusilier Companies 866, 902
� Engineer Battalion 46
� Guard Company 40, 41, 42
� Border Signal Battalion 6
� Infantry Regiment 52
� Infantry Regiment 53
� Infantry Regiment 54
� Fortress Battalion 106
o HQ Company 106
o Company I/106 Fest (120mm Mw)
o Fortress Battery II/106
o Fortress Battery III/106
o Fortress Battery IV/106
o Fortress Heave Battery V/106
� Kommandoposten (KP):
o Command Post Border Brigade 6 A 5310 ⊙[2],
o Command Post Infantry Regiment 54 A 5398 ⊙,
o Command Post Infantry Regiment 53 A 5565 ⊙,
o Command Post Infantry Regiment 52 A 5574 ⊙
o Artilleriewerk: Ebersberg A 5438 ⊙[3]
� Sperrstellen (Sperrstellen von nationaler Bedeutung mit *[4]): Andelfingen, Alten, Bargen, Basadingen, Berg am Irchel, Bichelsee, Buch am Irchel, Buechberg, Chugelshofen-Wilen, D�ttlikon, Diessenhofen*, Dorf, Effretikon, Eglisau*, Ellikon am Rhein, Embrach, Eschenz, Flurlingen-Feuerthalen*, Giesenhard, Glattfelden, Guntmadingen, Griesgraben, H�gele-Fisibach, Hard, Hemishofen-Ramsen, Herblingen, Hochwacht, Kaltenbach, Kemptthal, Kloten, Langwiesen, L�ubberg, Laufen-Uhwiesen, Merishausen-Bargen, Nassenwil, Neuparadies, Niederglatt, Niederweningen, Oberstammheim, Obersteinmaur, Oerlingen, Opfertshofen, Ossingen, Pfungen, Ratihard, Regensberg, Rheinau*[5], Rheinklingen, Rorbas-Freienstein, R�dlingen*, R�tifeld, Schaarenwald*, Schaffhausen*, Schlattingen, Unterschlatt*, Seglingen*, Solgen, Stadel*, Stadlerberg, Stein am Rhein*, Strassberg, Teufen, Thayngen, Trasadingen, Tr�llikon, Truttikon, Unterstammheim, Wagenbrechi, Weiach-Raat, Wildensbuch, Willisdorf, Zweidlen-L�tten[6]
Border Brigade 7 (GzBr 7)
� HQ and HQ Company Border Brigade 7
� Grenadier Company I/7
� ATGM Company 71, 72, 73, 74
� Anti-Tank Company II/7
� Mobile AA Battery III/7
� Fusilier Company 639
� Security Fusilier Company 907, 913, 914
� Watch Company 43
� Border Signals Company 7
� Infantry Regiment 55
o Fusilier Battalion 274
o Fusilier Battalion 275
o Fusilier Battalion 276
o Fusilier Battalion 277
� Border Battalion 47
o Motorboot Kp III/47 als �Bodenseemarine�
� Fortress Battalion 107
o Flt Kp 107,
o Fortress Company I/107 (6 120mm Mw)
o Fortress Heavy Battery II/107
o Fortress Heavy Battery III/107
o Fortress Heavy Battery IV/107
� Die Werke und Sperrstellen der Grenzbrigade 7 liegen im Kanton Thurgau:
� Kommandoposten (KP):
o KP Grenzbrigade �Erichstollen� A 5745 oberhalb Weinfelden[4]⊙,
o KP Infanterieregiment 32 �Ottoberg� F 7650 ⊙
� Blocking Sites: Arbon-Steinach-Horn, Birwinken, Dippishausen, Engwang, Ermatingen, Fischingen, G�ndelhart, G�ttingen, Helsighausen, H�rhausen, Hugelshofen, Klarsreuti, Lipperswil, Mammern, M�rstetten, M�nsterlingen, Neuwilen, Romanshorn, Schwaderloh, Siegershausen, Steckborn, Uttwil, Werkg�rtel Kreuzlingen (Kreuzlingen, Bottighofen*, Lengwil*, Triboltingen*)[6
Border Brigade 8 (GzBr 8)
� Stab, Gz Br Stabs Kp 8;
� Grenadier Company I/8
� ATGM Company 81, 82, 82
� Anti-Tank Company II/8,
� Mobile Light AA Company III/8
� Fusilier Company 646
� Security Fusilier Company 920
� Engineer Battalion 48
� Watch Company 44, 45, 49
� Border Signal Company 8
� Infantry Regiment 59
o Fusilier Battalion 287
o Fusilier Battalion 288
o Fusilier Battalion 289
� Infantry Regiment 77
o Fusilier Battalion 141
o Fusilier Battalion 142
o Fusilier Battalion 187
� Fortress Battalion 108
o Fortress Company 108
o Fortress Company I/108 (120mm Fortress Mw)
o Fortress Heavy Battery II/108
o Fortress Heavy Battery III/108
o Fortress Heavy Battery IV/108
� Die Werke und Sperrstellen der Grenzbrigade 8 liegen mehrheitlich im Kanton St. Gallen:
� Kommandoposten (KP):
o KP �K�stlis� Grenzbrigade 8 A 5950 Schlatt-Haslen ⊙[2][3],
o KP Infanterieregiment 59 F 8100
o Artilleriewerk: Heldsberg A 5850 ⊙
� Blocking Sites: Au, Berneck, Bruggerhorn*, Buechberg, Buechsteig, Buriet, Diepoldsau, Goldach, Grub, Haag, Halden, Halten-Thal*, Heldsberg*, Hirschensprung, Kriessern, Landmark, Loch, Knollhausen, Montlingen, Oberb�chel, Oberriet, Rheineck, Rorschach, Rorschacherberg, Salez, Sonderegg, Steinig Tisch, Starkenbach, Stoss*, St. Margrethen, Widnau, Wildhaus ⊙[5]

(in reply to akdreemer)

Post #: 10

RE: Swiss Battalion TO&E circa 1980's - 9/28/2019 5:33:23 AM

akdreemer

Posts: 1028
Joined: 10/3/2004
From: Anchorage, Alaska
Status: offline

I need artillery too.. most of this I obtained online form These websites:
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armee_61
https://www.festung-oberland.ch/
Along with judicious use of Google Translate

(in reply to akdreemer)

Post #: 11

RE: Swiss Battalion TO&E circa 1980's - 9/28/2019 8:45:24 AM

winkelried

Posts: 59
Joined: 8/10/2007
Status: offline

OK - seems to be a bit of a mix of pre-1980s TO&E e.g. the divisional recon batallion and post 1989 TO&E with the Mech Div 11. Some corrections for most of the time during the 1980s:

The divisional recon batallions (AMX-13) were dissolved in 1979 and were substituted by the HQ batallion with one single recon coy (jeep) (see above).

There were no Mechanized Infantry Regiments in the 1980s they were Motorized Infantry Regiments on Unimog in the Mech Div and were securing the jump off areas of the Panzer Regiments.

The Cyclist Regiments had the same TO&E as the "normal" Infantry Regiments.

The Feld Div had one Panzer Bat Typ B (the lower Bn number in the division) and one Panzer Bat Typ C (the higher number, see above). E.g. for the Feld Div 3 the Typ B Bn was Pz Bat 3, the Typ C Pz Bat 21.

The was no independent Infantry Bat in the Feld Div afaik.

The Artillery Regiments of the Feld Div had (in 1986) two heavy cannon Bn (18x15cm) and two 18x M-109 Bn, the Mech Div had 3x18x M-109 Bns, the Geb Div had 2x18x 10.5cm howitzers and 2x18x 15cm cannon Bns. By the end of the 1980 all Artillery Bns in the Feld Div were converted to M-109.

The Grenzbrigade were static troops with older soldiers. The higher the numbers of the Battalions the older they were. They had the task to delay the enemy for 24+ hours to allow the field army to take the defensive positions. Besides some fixed positions and strong points, their main task was the Zerst�rungsf�hrung - the destruction of roads, bridges and tunnels with prepared positions. The same for the age groups was true for the Territorialzone, the Festungsbrigade (main Fortresses Martigny, Gotthard and Sargans) and the Reduit (Redoubt) Brigade.

The Case ZEUS as shown on Wikipedia is +/- correct for the initial setup after the mobilization which would happen closer to where the troops came from. In addition the were other cases e.g. as case NORD.

_____________________________

Honneur et Fid�lit�

(in reply to akdreemer)

Post #: 12

RE: Swiss Battalion TO&E circa 1980's - 9/28/2019 6:38:25 PM

akdreemer

Posts: 1028
Joined: 10/3/2004
From: Anchorage, Alaska
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: winkelried

OK - seems to be a bit of a mix of pre-1980s TO&E e.g. the divisional recon batallion and post 1989 TO&E with the Mech Div 11. Some corrections for most of the time during the 1980s:

The divisional recon batallions (AMX-13) were dissolved in 1979 and were substituted by the HQ batallion with one single recon coy (jeep) (see above).

There were no Mechanized Infantry Regiments in the 1980s they were Motorized Infantry Regiments on Unimog in the Mech Div and were securing the jump off areas of the Panzer Regiments.

quote:

Swiss Army at 1990 had 1300 Sch�tzenpanzer 63/73 (M113). How were these used other than in Panzer Battaions?

The Cyclist Regiments had the same TO&E as the "normal" Infantry Regiments.

quote:

Found the information in a book about Bicycle Infantry. According to the author the TO&E from 1989 https://books.google.com/books?id=NABmAwAAQBAJ&pg=PA9&source=gbs_selected_pages&cad=3#v=onepage&q&f=false

The Feld Div had one Panzer Bat Typ B (the lower Bn number in the division) and one Panzer Bat Typ C (the higher number, see above). E.g. for the Feld Div 3 the Typ B Bn was Pz Bat 3, the Typ C Pz Bat 21.

quote:

Do you have the ID for the other Field Divisions? Were the Panzer Battalions also number seperatly in the Mech Divisions?

The was no independent Infantry Bat in the Feld Div afaik.

The Artillery Regiments of the Feld Div had (in 1986) two heavy cannon Bn (18x15cm) and two 18x M-109 Bn, the Mech Div had 3x18x M-109 Bns, the Geb Div had 2x18x 10.5cm howitzers and 2x18x 15cm cannon Bns. By the end of the 1980 all Artillery Bns in the Feld Div were converted to M-109.

quote:

That would give the Feld Divisions 4bn x18 M109? Were the Feld Divisions Motorized?

The Grenzbrigade were static troops with older soldiers. The higher the numbers of the Battalions the older they were. They had the task to delay the enemy for 24+ hours to allow the field army to take the defensive positions. Besides some fixed positions and strong points, their main task was the Zerst�rungsf�hrung - the destruction of roads, bridges and tunnels with prepared positions. The same for the age groups was true for the Territorialzone, the Festungsbrigade (main Fortresses Martigny, Gotthard and Sargans) and the Reduit (Redoubt) Brigade.

quote:

How were the Territorial Zones organized?

The Case ZEUS as shown on Wikipedia is +/- correct for the initial setup after the mobilization which would happen closer to where the troops came from. In addition the were other cases e.g. as case NORD.

This all looks good keep it coming.

< Message edited by akdreemer -- 9/28/2019 6:55:32 PM >

(in reply to winkelried)

Post #: 13

RE: Swiss Battalion TO&E circa 1980's - 9/28/2019 7:02:16 PM

winkelried

Posts: 59
Joined: 8/10/2007
Status: offline

quote:

Swiss Army at 1990 had 1300 Sch�tzenpanzer 63/73 (M113). How were these used?

It's a bit more complex. There 1'573 M113 in all variants.

520 Sch�tzenpanzer 63 Spz 63 (APC) ==> all were converted to SPz 63/73. (this would be an equivalent of 40 Pz Gren Coys with 12 in the Feld Div and 24 in the Panzer Regiments - the material for the other 4 coy swas probably used for recruit training)
120 Genie Panzer G Pz 63 (Engineering APC) - used in the Panzer Sappeur Kp der Genie Bat of the Feld/Mech Div
140 Feuerleitpanzer Flt Pz 63 (Forward Observer APC) - used for Arty and eventually mortars
61 Kran Panzer Kran Pz 63 (Crane APC for Repair) - Dienstkompanie (?)
25 Uebermittlungspanzer Uem Pz 63 (Radio APC) - On Corps and divisional level
132 Minenwerfer Panzer Mw Pz 63 (Mortar APC) - in the Pz Bat
575 Kommandopanzer 63 Kdo Pz 63 (Commander APCs) ==> 105+89+16=210 were upgraded to Kdo Pz 63/73 for the Pz Bat, Pz Gren Kp. The others were used in Arty and elsewhere.

_____________________________

Honneur et Fid�lit�

(in reply to akdreemer)

Post #: 14

RE: Swiss Battalion TO&E circa 1980's - 9/28/2019 7:04:04 PM

winkelried

Posts: 59
Joined: 8/10/2007
Status: offline

quote:

Do you have the ID for the other Field Divisions? Were the Panzer Battalions also number seperatly in the Mech Divisions?

No I don't have the numbers. All Batallions in the swiss army were numbered starting at 1. So Pz Bat 1 ..., F�s Bat 1 ..., Art Abt 1 ... - there was (almost) no system in the numbering (e.g. having a sequence of numbers in a Regiment).

_____________________________

Honneur et Fid�lit�

(in reply to akdreemer)

Post #: 15

RE: Swiss Battalion TO&E circa 1980's - 9/28/2019 7:07:17 PM

winkelried

Posts: 59
Joined: 8/10/2007
Status: offline

quote:

That would give the Feld Divisions 4bn x18 M109? Were the Feld Divisions Motorized?

not sure if they reduced to 3bn. probably good guess. there were some 600 M-109 in the end which would give some 36 Bn.

No the Feld Divisionen were static. They had motorized transport (trucks) for approx. 1 infantry regiment - all other units (Engineers, AA, Arty, ...) were motorized. The arty was mechanized since towed arty would have been to exposed to counter-battery fire. the armored arty was planned to be in a waiting position, rush into fire position and fire some salvoes to disappear quickly again.

< Message edited by winkelried -- 9/28/2019 7:14:12 PM >

_____________________________

Honneur et Fid�lit�

(in reply to akdreemer)

Post #: 16

RE: Swiss Battalion TO&E circa 1980's - 9/28/2019 7:08:03 PM

winkelried

Posts: 59
Joined: 8/10/2007
Status: offline

quote:

How were the Territorial Zones organized?

no idea. probably very specific to the sector/zone they were supposed to work in.

_____________________________

Honneur et Fid�lit�

(in reply to akdreemer)

Post #: 17

RE: Swiss Battalion TO&E circa 1980's - 9/28/2019 7:12:40 PM

winkelried

Posts: 59
Joined: 8/10/2007
Status: offline

error

< Message edited by winkelried -- 9/28/2019 7:13:21 PM >

_____________________________

Honneur et Fid�lit�

(in reply to winkelried)

Post #: 18

RE: Swiss Battalion TO&E circa 1980's - 9/28/2019 8:27:48 PM

akdreemer

Posts: 1028
Joined: 10/3/2004
From: Anchorage, Alaska
Status: offline

1x Infanterie Batallion
...1x Stabskompanie (no clue)
...1x Nachrichtenkompanie (Recon Coy)
...1x Grenadierkompanie (Assault Infantry 3x platoons, 1x heavy platoon???)
...1x Panzerabwehrkompanie (Anti Tank Coy up 1980 with 10.5cm recoilless on Jeep, afterwards Dragon ATGM motorized 9-12 guns/ATGM not sure - conversion started in 1981)
...1x Flabkompanie (AA company up to 1979) afterwards 1x Schwere Minenwerferkompanie (6x12 cm heavy mortars) for mountain troops - not sure if the others got this too.

Seems a little light in infantry, should there be at least 2 more Grenadier companies?

(in reply to winkelried)

Post #: 19

RE: Swiss Battalion TO&E circa 1980's - 9/28/2019 9:10:30 PM

winkelried

Posts: 59
Joined: 8/10/2007
Status: offline

This unit was a kind of a staff unit on regimental level - the companies operated independently

Nachrichtenkompanie = recon coy, used for recon for the regiment. the batallions had a section for recon.
Grenadierkompanie = one of the few elite units of the swiss army, had lots of explosives, flamethrowers etc. used either as the reserve of the Regiment commander or in a similar way as the German combat engineers.
Panzerabwehrkompanie= usually used as platoons to reinforce the infantry batallions when they had sectors where their rocket tubes (200m useful range) were too short ranged.
Schwere Minenwerferkompanie = the "artillery" of the regiment commander.

_____________________________

Honneur et Fid�lit�

(in reply to akdreemer)

Post #: 20

RE: Swiss Battalion TO&E circa 1980's - 9/29/2019 12:23:34 AM

akdreemer

Posts: 1028
Joined: 10/3/2004
From: Anchorage, Alaska
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: winkelried

This unit was a kind of a staff unit on regimental level - the companies operated independently

Nachrichtenkompanie = recon coy, used for recon for the regiment. the batallions had a section for recon.
Grenadierkompanie = one of the few elite units of the swiss army, had lots of explosives, flamethrowers etc. used either as the reserve of the Regiment commander or in a similar way as the German combat engineers.
Panzerabwehrkompanie= usually used as platoons to reinforce the infantry batallions when they had sectors where their rocket tubes (200m useful range) were too short ranged.
Schwere Minenwerferkompanie = the "artillery" of the regiment commander.

quote:

Okay I understand. I see something similar in the Grenzbrigade structure. So the Infantry regiments has these too.... I wonder if they just consolidated the Flak Batteries from Regiment into the Battalion at Division level... A couple of other armies did the same during this time span.

(in reply to winkelried)

Post #: 21

RE: Swiss Battalion TO&E circa 1980's - 9/29/2019 5:49:11 PM

winkelried

Posts: 59
Joined: 8/10/2007
Status: offline

quote:

Okay I understand. I see something similar in the Grenzbrigade structure. So the Infantry regiments has these too.... I wonder if they just consolidated the Flak Batteries from Regiment into the Battalion at Division level... A couple of other armies did the same during this time span.

All infantry regiments were organized +/- against the same blueprint. the units with the younger soldiers getting the newer equipment first.

yes the AA companies in the Infanterie Batallion were "green" AA, which means they were subordinated to Infantry (green color) and became "blue" AA subordinated to Flieger und Flab = Air Force. At the same time the met in place the divisional AA batallion.

< Message edited by winkelried -- 9/29/2019 5:50:22 PM >

_____________________________

Honneur et Fid�lit�

(in reply to akdreemer)

Post #: 22

RE: Swiss Battalion TO&E circa 1980's - 9/29/2019 6:25:55 PM

akdreemer

Posts: 1028
Joined: 10/3/2004
From: Anchorage, Alaska
Status: offline

Speaking of AA units, did the Army have Rapier units or were they all Airforce? I ask this as Switzerland bought only 60 fire units?

Was the Dual 35mm AA an Army weapon or Airforce?

When did Switzerland procure Stingers? I kind of wonder why they did not have them earlier in the 80's?

The Motorized Battalions in the Mech Div were organized the same as foot infantry but adding trucks?

Who manned the Sperrstellen found in the Grenzbrigades?

Did Tank Regiment HQ's the Recon Co, Grenadier Co, PzAbw Co and Lt Flak Co?

I really appreciate your help in this.

(in reply to winkelried)

Post #: 23

RE: Swiss Battalion TO&E circa 1980's - 9/29/2019 8:31:52 PM

winkelried

Posts: 59
Joined: 8/10/2007
Status: offline

quote:

Speaking of AA units, did the Army have Rapier units or were they all Airforce? I ask this as Switzerland bought only 60 fire units?

All AA was Airforce, but they were used to cover the movement of the Mech Div in case of a counterattack. In addition there were fixed Bloodhound batteries.

quote:

Was the Dual 35mm AA an Army weapon or Airforce?

Airforce mainly to protect airfields I understand.

quote:

When did Switzerland procure Stingers? I kind of wonder why they did not have them earlier in the 80's?

The decision was taken in 88/89 and the first were introduced in 1992.

quote:

The Motorized Battalions in the Mech Div were organized the same as foot infantry but adding trucks?

yes. Unimog mostly.

quote:

Who manned the Sperrstellen found in the Grenzbrigades?

The Grenzbrigaden.

quote:

Did Tank Regiment HQ's the Recon Co, Grenadier Co, PzAbw Co and Lt Flak Co?

No. The tank Regiments had only a Stabskompanie (Command Coy) and a Dienstkompanie (Service Company). I think they 2 MBTs too. And some M113.
In the Stabskompanie, there was a recon platoon (jeep) and a bridge laying platoon (4x Br�ckenpanzer 68).
In the Dienstkompanie you would find the recovery vehicles, cranes, trucks and maintenance personnel.correction those were with the Panzer Batallions

< Message edited by winkelried -- 9/30/2019 5:00:33 AM >

_____________________________

Honneur et Fid�lit�

(in reply to akdreemer)

Post #: 24

RE: Swiss Battalion TO&E circa 1980's - 9/30/2019 5:18:28 AM

winkelried

Posts: 59
Joined: 8/10/2007
Status: offline

maybe a short one on doctrine during the cold war

the main goal of the swiss armed forces was to credibly to be able to inflict an enemy so big losses and to the deny the main logistical axes (gotthard, simplon, ...) by holding or destroying them, so he would not consider entering switzerland as the price would be too high. there were two potential scenarios why an enemy would attack switzerland: 1) secure the mountain passes 2) get to the french plateau d'albion where the french nukes where based.

the army would fight three lines (one for each field corps FAK) in the central plain from the lake of constance to the lake of geneva. each line would be formed by the two field divisions of each FAK with strong points on company or batallion level. those strong points would normally set up for a circular defense and hold as long as possible.

the main reserve of the field divisions would be the panzer batallion typ B which would be used in so called "counterstrokes" (Gegenschlag) against enemy which had broken through into so called "counterstroke areas" (switzerland is quite hilly or quite urban in the central plain and there were only a few areas where a batallion sized tank battle could take place). the goal of the Gegenschlag was not to win back lost terrain, but to inflict as much losses as possible.

The same would be true for the Mech Div which was the counterstroke force of the FAK - maybe with the exception of Mech Div 11. It would be used as regiments or as a whole division. here again the areas where this would be possible were pretty limited.

The concept of the counterstroke required a very good timing to release the stroke when the broken through enemy was still weak enough to be destroyed.

_____________________________

Honneur et Fid�lit�

(in reply to winkelried)

Post #: 25

RE: Swiss Battalion TO&E circa 1980's - 10/1/2019 2:12:02 PM

winkelried

Posts: 59
Joined: 8/10/2007
Status: offline

found something on the AA:

as you said the AA bttys of the Inf Rgt were consolidated into the Mobile Leichte Flab Abteilung of the divisions with five batteries with 16 20mm AA guns each for a total of 80 AA guns. the infantry regiments of the Grenz Brigaden kept their AA bttys with 16x 20mm each it seems.

_____________________________

Honneur et Fid�lit�

(in reply to winkelried)

Post #: 26

RE: Swiss Battalion TO&E circa 1980's - 10/4/2019 1:29:36 AM

akdreemer

Posts: 1028
Joined: 10/3/2004
From: Anchorage, Alaska
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: winkelried

found something on the AA:

as you said the AA bttys of the Inf Rgt were consolidated into the Mobile Leichte Flab Abteilung of the divisions with five batteries with 16 20mm AA guns each for a total of 80 AA guns. the infantry regiments of the Grenz Brigaden kept their AA bttys with 16x 20mm each it seems.

That a lot of 20mm guns floating around!

(in reply to winkelried)

Post #: 27

RE: Swiss Battalion TO&E circa 1980's - 10/5/2019 3:29:36 AM

akdreemer

Posts: 1028
Joined: 10/3/2004
From: Anchorage, Alaska
Status: offline

Are there any troops associated with the Territorial Zones, like Landwehr for instance? OOB I have seen there are Territorial Regiments?

(in reply to akdreemer)

Post #: 28

RE: Swiss Battalion TO&E circa 1980's - 10/5/2019 11:45:48 AM

winkelried

Posts: 59
Joined: 8/10/2007
Status: offline

First a short overview of the age classes in TO61:

Auszug (Elite) between 20 and 32 - mostly in the Field Army (Feld Div, Mech Div, Geb Div).
Landwehr between 33 and 42 - mostly in the border brigades.
Landsturm between 43 and 50 - mostly in the Territorial troops.

The tasks of the territorial troops were:
- coverage for the mobilization of the Field Army (the territorials were people living close to their initial deployment areas)
- logistics for the Field Army
- protection of civil installations (government, railways, electrical plants, etc.)
- some police functions
I think the best way to describe them is as security troops.

They didn't have heavy weapons (maybe some MGs) and their personal weapons were updated in the last priority, so they carried carabines until late in the 1980s. They had very limited mobility. They may also have had some responsibility for destruction objects (bridges etc.).

_____________________________

Honneur et Fid�lit�

(in reply to akdreemer)

Post #: 29

RE: Swiss Battalion TO&E circa 1980's - 10/5/2019 8:15:04 PM

akdreemer

Posts: 1028
Joined: 10/3/2004
From: Anchorage, Alaska
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: winkelried

First a short overview of the age classes in TO61:

Auszug (Elite) between 20 and 32 - mostly in the Field Army (Feld Div, Mech Div, Geb Div).
Landwehr between 33 and 42 - mostly in the border brigades.
Landsturm between 43 and 50 - mostly in the Territorial troops.

The tasks of the territorial troops were:
- coverage for the mobilization of the Field Army (the territorials were people living close to their initial deployment areas)
- logistics for the Field Army
- protection of civil installations (government, railways, electrical plants, etc.)
- some police functions
I think the best way to describe them is as security troops.

They didn't have heavy weapons (maybe some MGs) and their personal weapons were updated in the last priority, so they carried carabines until late in the 1980s. They had very limited mobility. They may also have had some responsibility for destruction objects (bridges etc.).

I guess organized as regiments?, but sounds like to me very much home defense and very much static. I will deal with them later.

SO the panzerabwehr companies of the infantry regiments of the Grenz brigades were probably still 105mm RCL?

The Panzerabwehr Battalions (centurions) were also found in the Gebirgs divisions? Or were these battalions compsed of 105mm RCL?

(in reply to winkelried)

Post #: 30