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Judgement Day - 7/4/2003 5:58:11 AM   
Paratrooper

 

Posts: 272
Joined: 6/15/2003
From: descending on Stockholm
Status: offline 		Is global nuclear war (total annihilation) inevitable? Is the best we can do is to postpone it? Or will we completely disarm our nuclear arsenal and never again witness a nuclear mushroom cloud blossoming over some doomed city?

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Post #: 1
- 7/4/2003 7:05:27 AM   
Les_the_Sarge_9_1

 

Posts: 4392
Joined: 12/29/2000
Status: offline 		Alas I think the poll needed these variables too.

Death by comet. Kaboom can we say ELE.

Death by ecological disintegration. Well more like blowing up your house.

Death by global warming induced drought.
Oh by the way, it's not just a hair brained a theory, it happens regularly, just not within human concept time spans. Go look at the geological record, it's more reliable than people with agendas.

Which is the precursor to an Ice Age for those that don't read a lot of science. Not that it will eliminate us, just most of us.

I think nuclear winter is the least of mankinds worries.

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I LIKE that my life bothers them,
Why should I be the only one bothered by it eh.

(in reply to Paratrooper)
Post #: 2
- 7/4/2003 8:24:58 AM   
Legbreaker

 

Posts: 24
Joined: 5/14/2003
From: Tasmania, Australia
Status: offline 		Definately needs more options.

What about limited exchanges? Surgical strikes? Nuclear armed terrorists?

All really, really stupid ideas but still (scarily) possible

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If it moves - shoot it
If it doesn't move - push it
If it still doesn't move - use explosives

(in reply to Paratrooper)
Post #: 3
- 7/4/2003 8:39:40 AM   
Nickel

 

Posts: 124
Joined: 6/25/2003
From: WI- USA
Status: offline 		This planet has a way of solving the issues of species that overburden the environment in which it lives. I'm not sure about the global warming stuff. I can say from a mathimatical point of view that the ability to accurately measure temperature is a relatively recent capability. To predict global climatic behaviour on the millenial scale or even larger time frames involves statistics. You need to have pretty good data, relatively large population of temperatures taken or the confidence in the model drops to rather small numbers. I'm not saying that the evironmentalist/ scientists working on this issue are not knowledgable, but I think we all know that numbers can be made to substantiate/ support mant different perspectives.;)

(in reply to Paratrooper)
Post #: 4
- 7/4/2003 9:27:23 AM   
Les_the_Sarge_9_1

 

Posts: 4392
Joined: 12/29/2000
Status: offline 		Nickel what you need to do is just stop listening to people that are quoting temperatures from the last 100 to a 1000 years. They mean nothing zero zip nadda.

Fact one, global warming happens, it isn't a theory, its provable geologic fact.

Fact two, it is a mechanism mother nature has used on the planet quite a few times already. Mankind didn't cause global warming, and our contribution isn't even worth worry. But helping it isn't exactly bright either.

There WILL be another Ice Age. Anyone with even basic education in geologic history already knows this. Matter of fact, most are unaware how many dozens of Ice Ages there have already been. It's not a maybe once or twice condition.

Now of course, we might find some creative way to mangle our species current level of civilization before the next glaciation occurs.

I by the way am not connected with any form of petroleum industry, nor any reactionary "green" organization. I am not connected with any governmental agency with jobs to protect either.

I am therefore able to stand here and state flat out, that denying this planet WILL experience a progressive and damaging (to us) warming, is basically either from ignorance, or outright bias.

What most are unaware of, is this planets "natural" state, is actually quite hot eh. Find your hottest hot region on the planet, somewhere where it is 120 in the shade. That is what this planet has had for weather for more than 75% of it's existence. Right now, it is actually technically "cold".

Most though, fail to look through the perspective of millions of years. Our past, humanity's past, has really been but a tic on the geologicial clock. Measurements made within 1000 years have little or no worth in assessing global climate patterns.

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I LIKE that my life bothers them,
Why should I be the only one bothered by it eh.

(in reply to Paratrooper)
Post #: 5
- 7/4/2003 10:44:27 AM   
Legbreaker

 

Posts: 24
Joined: 5/14/2003
From: Tasmania, Australia
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by Les the Sarge 9-1

Most though, fail to look through the perspective of millions of years. Our past, humanity's past, has really been but a tic on the geologicial clock. Measurements made within 1000 years have little or no worth in assessing global climate patterns. [/B][/QUOTE]

The basic problem that faces the average human is the concept of geological time. From my own personal viewpoint, I don't really care too much about more than a dozen generations of decendants. The timeframe is just a little difficult to comprehend and appreciate.

This is not to say that I am not aware of the reality of change over time - more that it just doesn't really apply to the average person.

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If it moves - shoot it
If it doesn't move - push it
If it still doesn't move - use explosives

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Post #: 6
- 7/4/2003 10:47:02 AM   
Maliki


Posts: 2217
Joined: 12/25/2002
Status: offline 		I don't see nuclear war as inevitable,though i also do not see nations completely scraping their stockpiles either.Face it we're stuck with the bomb....until something more destructive is thought up.

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"..if you want to make a baby cry, first you give it a lollipop. Then you take it away."

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Post #: 7
- 7/4/2003 11:15:30 AM   
Nickel

 

Posts: 124
Joined: 6/25/2003
From: WI- USA
Status: offline 		Les the Sarge 9-1, should have read your first post a little closer. Thought you were talking about current events. I agree about the long term perspective about climate. It changes on this planet. If your are into the behaviour of the earth, then there are many variables that we don't have any idea of effect, for instance you are probably aware of the wobble in the earths rotation- that 5 degree tip change in the axis. that happens over 25,000 years. what about the normal carbon dioxide- calcium carbonate cycle. Way too big a science project to say that what we are currently doing is the cause/or not.

(in reply to Paratrooper)
Post #: 8
- 7/4/2003 2:55:13 PM   
runes


Posts: 107
Joined: 1/15/2001
Status: offline 		exactly. global warming, is really just a myth.

we are getting throuhg a coldspell, which lasted (about 500 years? maybe less... proof: acounts of the Thames freezing over) and before, it was much hotter.... proof, vineyards in england.

(in reply to Paratrooper)
Post #: 9
- 7/4/2003 9:21:39 PM   
Les_the_Sarge_9_1

 

Posts: 4392
Joined: 12/29/2000
Status: offline 		Runes saying Global warming is a myth places you in the same camp as people that believe in aliens hehe :)

There is plenty of scientifically irrefutalable hard evidence you can touch it factual data to illustrate all I say.

But it has little application to whether or not the US and it's incredibly pollution intensive culture is at fault.
Mother nature can outdo the combined history of the US's contribution to global warming all causes no matter how remote, with simple vulcanism.

Of course Bush's head in the sand I will pick my petty jobs over your environmental concerns stance will tend to irritate more responsible thinking people. But in the long term, nothing he or anyone else does, is going to prevent the next onset of glaciation.

Might as well get over it eh.

The only answer that is worth having, is once it starts, is anyone going to be ready for it with anything useful in the way of science to help cushion the effect.

For those silly enough to think, oh we will have time. I don't think you have done enough research yet. For a good scenario, try reading The Coming Global Superstorm first, then adopt your complacent stance.

Irony its all about irony too. Most are unaware, that the next ice age will wipe out humanity's worst offenders eh. When the ice returns, you can kiss western civilization good bye. It will wipe clean all evidence of Canada aside from Pacific Coast. The northern half of the US, Scandinavia, All of Europe save the mediteranean coastal regions European Russia and most of central Russia, and a large swath of our southern hemisphere.

About the only places that won't get the chop, our the worlds currently most wretched places to live.

Kinda funny in a way. Our worst off will have the best chance to survive. Assuming the considerable heat spell that precedes major glaciations doesn't get them first.
Yeah a funny thing glaciations, they require a considerable warming first to work. Weird eh.

This of course requires a big picture perspective. You warm the planet, and you melt ourr current ice. That ice is not saline. Yopu drop the overall oceanic salinity, and you disrupt global current patterns. Neat stuff salt eh. You change the predominant current patterns from north south (which keeps the place cool) to more east west, and you get **** cold northern and southern regions, and hotter equatorial regions. Not to mention weird weather. Oh and by weird weather, I mean the stuff we have as humans not yet experienced at all ever period. You want to view freaky weather, you have to go hunting with the proper sciences.

An Ice age doesn't need oodles of years. It can happen in 2. No that wasn't a typo, I said two. I am not saying 1000 feet of snow in 2 (two) years. But after the first 50 feet, it doesn't matter, you won't be there to keep count.

Again, I should point out, I don't follow the agends of hyper people like Greenpeace or any other reactionary cause dominated street rabble groups. I contain my reading to actual science text books.

It could happen in my life time as easily as the next 1000 years of course. One of those shiit happens things.

_____________________________

I LIKE that my life bothers them,
Why should I be the only one bothered by it eh.

(in reply to Paratrooper)
Post #: 10
- 7/4/2003 9:22:33 PM   
Les_the_Sarge_9_1

 

Posts: 4392
Joined: 12/29/2000
Status: offline 		Oh by the way, this is what happens when Wargamer is under maintenance hehe

I run out of wargaming topics to discuss hehe.

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I LIKE that my life bothers them,
Why should I be the only one bothered by it eh.

(in reply to Paratrooper)
Post #: 11
- 7/5/2003 4:49:32 AM   
runes


Posts: 107
Joined: 1/15/2001
Status: offline 		it's also been proven, by factual data, that we are coming out of an "ice age" that has lasted 500 or so years.

(in reply to Paratrooper)
Post #: 12
- 7/5/2003 5:41:48 AM   
Les_the_Sarge_9_1

 

Posts: 4392
Joined: 12/29/2000
Status: offline 		Actually while you have the right idea, I think the term you might be looking for is a mini interglacial.

Ice Ages are in reality long periods of cold, colder, and bloody cold spells with a few periods we humans would mistake for warm.

Well actually to use the text book terms...

In 4.6 billion years we have evidence of 7 Ice Eras.
An Ice Era can be something on the order of 65 million years.
An Ice Era can have numerous Ice Epochs, with an average Epoch being 2.5 million years.
An Ice Epoch can experience numerous Ice Age Cycles lasting on average some 125,000 years.
An Ice Age cycle can be further broken into Interglacials lasting on average some 10,000 years.
A cold snap during an Interglacial can be a 1000 year experience.

And in human terms, within 100 years (between 1880 and 1980), my references list several periods of cold.
We are talking periods during this calculation of several years up to in 3 cases nearly a decade of cold conditions.

Silly humans think it is actually warm right now heheh.

The majority of people talking about cold trends and global warming are not even extending their comments outside of one lousy case of a fragment of a fragment of an Interglacial.
It's no wonder people can't see the forest for the trees.

_____________________________

I LIKE that my life bothers them,
Why should I be the only one bothered by it eh.

(in reply to Paratrooper)
Post #: 13
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