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Kaga Found - 10/18/2019 3:40:54 PM   
Skyros


Posts: 1570
Joined: 9/29/2000
From: Columbia SC
Status: offline 		https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/rv-petrel-battle-midway-kaga-wreck-aircraft-carrier-ww2-paul-allen-a9161481.html
Post #: 1
RE: Kaga Found - 10/18/2019 4:14:35 PM   
warspite1


Posts: 41353
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Skyros

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/rv-petrel-battle-midway-kaga-wreck-aircraft-carrier-ww2-paul-allen-a9161481.html

warspite1

It's a shame the USN couldn't sink her and she had to be scuttled - thus handing the moral victory at Midway to the IJN.



































Sits back, relaxes, breaks open a nice cool bottle of lager and waits....


_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



(in reply to Skyros)
Post #: 2
RE: Kaga Found - 10/18/2019 5:01:54 PM   
spence

 

Posts: 5400
Joined: 4/20/2003
From: Vancouver, Washington
Status: offline
quote:

thus handing the moral victory at Midway to the IJN.


Hell of a victory for sure.

(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 3
RE: Kaga Found - 10/18/2019 5:09:33 PM   
HansBolter


Posts: 7704
Joined: 7/6/2006
From: United States
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1



thus handing the moral victory at Midway to the IJN.




In someone's alternate universe perhaps.......




Didn't have to wait long for the reactions to your offensive troll did you?

_____________________________

Hans


(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 4
RE: Kaga Found - 10/18/2019 5:41:02 PM   
John B.


Posts: 3909
Joined: 9/25/2011
From: Virginia
Status: offline 		If only the IJN had scuttled itself off of pearl harbor on the afternoon of December 7, 1941 the Empire of Japan could have claimed a moral victory for the entire war. :)

Interesting video of the Kaga. I would assume they kept the location secret except for the government of Japan. I read that's what they did when they found the Bismark (except, of course, that they notified Germany).

(in reply to HansBolter)
Post #: 5
RE: Kaga Found - 10/18/2019 5:43:05 PM   
BBfanboy


Posts: 18046
Joined: 8/4/2010
From: Winnipeg, MB
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: HansBolter


quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1



thus handing the moral victory at Midway to the IJN.




In someone's alternate universe perhaps.......




Didn't have to wait long for the reactions to your offensive troll did you?

When you recognize someone is trolling for fun (per the fine print in W1's post), all that is necessary is to laugh at the ridiculousness of the assertion!
Offense and indignation are for when someone really means/believes in something immoral or untrue. W1 could easily have put "j/k" at the end of his tiny text but it is implied so I chuckle at his little dig at the USN.

_____________________________

No matter how bad a situation is, you can always make it worse. - Chris Hadfield : An Astronaut's Guide To Life On Earth

(in reply to HansBolter)
Post #: 6
RE: Kaga Found - 10/18/2019 6:27:52 PM   
Zorch

 

Posts: 7087
Joined: 3/7/2010
Status: offline 		KAGA WAS NOT SCUTTLED!!!

Rafe planted a bomb with a 6 month delay fuse.

(in reply to BBfanboy)
Post #: 7
RE: Kaga Found - 10/18/2019 7:24:04 PM   
HansBolter


Posts: 7704
Joined: 7/6/2006
From: United States
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy


quote:

ORIGINAL: HansBolter


quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1



thus handing the moral victory at Midway to the IJN.




In someone's alternate universe perhaps.......




Didn't have to wait long for the reactions to your offensive troll did you?

When you recognize someone is trolling for fun (per the fine print in W1's post), all that is necessary is to laugh at the ridiculousness of the assertion!
Offense and indignation are for when someone really means/believes in something immoral or untrue. W1 could easily have put "j/k" at the end of his tiny text but it is implied so I chuckle at his little dig at the USN.



Thank you very much for the lecture.

You are free to react to trolling in whatever manner you choose and I would never presume to lecture you on how I believe you should respond.

_____________________________

Hans


(in reply to BBfanboy)
Post #: 8
RE: Kaga Found - 10/18/2019 11:02:42 PM   
BBfanboy


Posts: 18046
Joined: 8/4/2010
From: Winnipeg, MB
Status: offline 		Yes Hans, you can choose to react however you want. I just feel that the indignant reaction is what the trolls want to see so I deny it to them.
Different strokes for different folks. My high opinion of you as a player and as a man is not diminished by your response. If anything I appreciate your openness about how you feel about things that bug you.

_____________________________

No matter how bad a situation is, you can always make it worse. - Chris Hadfield : An Astronaut's Guide To Life On Earth

(in reply to HansBolter)
Post #: 9
RE: Kaga Found - 10/19/2019 12:12:40 AM   
warspite1


Posts: 41353
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: offline 		Wow that was unexpected!

Offensive trolling? After 11 years on the forums I have a pretty good understanding of fellow long-standing, frequent posting, forumites and their views and thought others in the community would have the same awareness. To react in that way (despite the footnote) to someone who has never denigrated the USN – in fact quite the opposite - is pretty sad. I guess some people just get off on feeling offended and aren’t happy unless playing the victim.

So thanks to those with a sense of humour who appear to have understood there was nothing malicious intended - although one small correction BBanboy, this was no dig at the USN - this was of course a tongue-in-cheek reference to the long running Bismarck – scuttled or sunk routine – and a poke in the ribs at those individuals that believe that Bismarck was scuttled (which she may well have been) but that, if so, that in some way takes away the Royal Navy’s victory – and then appear unable to join the dots when it comes to Midway.

Zorch, stupidly I never considered the Rafe/time delay fuse theory…. was Rafe responsible for Bismarck too perhaps? The Strategic Command game rightly recognise it was him that led the raid on Tokyo in April 1942 (not that Doolittle bloke) - I wonder if they need to amend Midway and the Sink the Bismarck episodes too....




Attachment (1)

< Message edited by warspite1 -- 10/19/2019 12:44:44 AM >

_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



(in reply to BBfanboy)
Post #: 10
RE: Kaga Found - 10/19/2019 1:56:20 AM   
Chickenboy


Posts: 24520
Joined: 6/29/2002
From: San Antonio, TX
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1


quote:

ORIGINAL: Skyros

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/rv-petrel-battle-midway-kaga-wreck-aircraft-carrier-ww2-paul-allen-a9161481.html

warspite1

It's a shame the USN couldn't sink her and she had to be scuttled - thus handing the moral victory at Midway to the IJN.



































Sits back, relaxes, breaks open a nice cool bottle of lager and waits....



Troublemaker.

_____________________________


(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 11
RE: Kaga Found - 10/19/2019 3:41:22 AM   
Zorch

 

Posts: 7087
Joined: 3/7/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

Zorch, stupidly I never considered the Rafe/time delay fuse theory…. was Rafe responsible for Bismarck too perhaps? The Strategic Command game rightly recognise it was him that led the raid on Tokyo in April 1942 (not that Doolittle bloke) - I wonder if they need to amend Midway and the Sink the Bismarck episodes too....




Rafe sank all 4 Jap carriers at Midway. Somehow the bombs he set on Shokaku and Zuikaku failed to go off - maybe because of the damage at Coral Sea.

(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 12
RE: Kaga Found - 10/19/2019 4:35:55 AM   
Buckrock

 

Posts: 578
Joined: 3/16/2012
From: Not all there
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

Wow that was unexpected!

Offensive trolling? After 11 years on the forums I have a pretty good understanding of fellow long-standing, frequent posting, forumites and their views and thought others in the community would have the same awareness. To react in that way (despite the footnote) to someone who has never denigrated the USN – in fact quite the opposite - is pretty sad. I guess some people just get off on feeling offended and aren’t happy unless playing the victim.

So thanks to those with a sense of humour who appear to have understood there was nothing malicious intended - although one small correction BBanboy, this was no dig at the USN - this was of course a tongue-in-cheek reference to the long running Bismarck – scuttled or sunk routine – and a poke in the ribs at those individuals that believe that Bismarck was scuttled (which she may well have been) but that, if so, that in some way takes away the Royal Navy’s victory – and then appear unable to join the dots when it comes to Midway.

You in particular should take more care when attempting to refloat an old idea as It might not always go as smoothly as intended (cough...Prussia Cove...cough).

_____________________________

This was the only sig line I could think of.

(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 13
RE: Kaga Found - 10/19/2019 5:01:02 AM   
warspite1


Posts: 41353
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Buckrock

quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

Wow that was unexpected!

Offensive trolling? After 11 years on the forums I have a pretty good understanding of fellow long-standing, frequent posting, forumites and their views and thought others in the community would have the same awareness. To react in that way (despite the footnote) to someone who has never denigrated the USN – in fact quite the opposite - is pretty sad. I guess some people just get off on feeling offended and aren’t happy unless playing the victim.

So thanks to those with a sense of humour who appear to have understood there was nothing malicious intended - although one small correction BBanboy, this was no dig at the USN - this was of course a tongue-in-cheek reference to the long running Bismarck – scuttled or sunk routine – and a poke in the ribs at those individuals that believe that Bismarck was scuttled (which she may well have been) but that, if so, that in some way takes away the Royal Navy’s victory – and then appear unable to join the dots when it comes to Midway.

You in particular should take more care when attempting to refloat an old idea as It might not always go as smoothly as intended (cough...Prussia Cove...cough).
warspite1

Haha, there is a very obvious retort to that, but I shall refrain from posting because but if my original post caused the unwarranted and totally over the top reaction that it did then this - even in jest - would probably give him an attack of the vapours .

So I will simply leave it with the response it deserves . HMS Warspite, that Grand Old Lady, refused to be refloated because she wasn't going to any old breakers yard. Enemy bombs, mines, torpedoes and shells couldn't destroy her - no scrap yard was going to do the job either - instead she would bow out on her own terms, at sea where she did her duty so magnificently during two world wars .


< Message edited by warspite1 -- 10/19/2019 5:40:32 AM >

_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



(in reply to Buckrock)
Post #: 14
RE: Kaga Found - 10/19/2019 3:49:17 PM   
rustysi


Posts: 7472
Joined: 2/21/2012
From: LI, NY
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1


quote:

ORIGINAL: Skyros

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/rv-petrel-battle-midway-kaga-wreck-aircraft-carrier-ww2-paul-allen-a9161481.html

warspite1

It's a shame the USN couldn't sink her and she had to be scuttled - thus handing the moral victory at Midway to the IJN.



































Sits back, relaxes, breaks open a nice cool bottle of lager and waits....



Some people just have fun poking the bear!!!

_____________________________

It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once. Hume

In every party there is one member who by his all-too-devout pronouncement of the party principles provokes the others to apostasy. Nietzsche

Cave ab homine unius libri. Ltn Prvb

(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 15
RE: Kaga Found - 10/19/2019 6:51:40 PM   
warspite1


Posts: 41353
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: rustysi


quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1


quote:

ORIGINAL: Skyros

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/rv-petrel-battle-midway-kaga-wreck-aircraft-carrier-ww2-paul-allen-a9161481.html

warspite1

It's a shame the USN couldn't sink her and she had to be scuttled - thus handing the moral victory at Midway to the IJN.



































Sits back, relaxes, breaks open a nice cool bottle of lager and waits....



Some people just have fun poking the bear!!!
warspite1




_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



(in reply to rustysi)
Post #: 16
RE: Kaga Found - 10/19/2019 9:31:55 PM   
Denniss

 

Posts: 7902
Joined: 1/10/2002
From: Germany, Hannover (region)
Status: offline 		To be clear: Bismarck was scuttled but after her upperworks were being shot to pieces by the Royal Navy.

(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 17
RE: Kaga Found - 10/19/2019 11:27:39 PM   
Bearcat2

 

Posts: 577
Joined: 2/14/2004
Status: offline 		I always subscribe to the conspiracy theory that HMS Warpsite was sunk by a U-boat in 1941 and they renamed HMS Barham to Warspite to keep up British morale.

_____________________________

"After eight years as President I have only two regrets: that I have not shot Henry Clay or hanged John C. Calhoun."--1837

(in reply to Denniss)
Post #: 18
RE: Kaga Found - 10/19/2019 11:53:35 PM   
BBfanboy


Posts: 18046
Joined: 8/4/2010
From: Winnipeg, MB
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Denniss

To be clear: Bismarck was scuttled but after her upperworks were being shot to pieces by the Royal Navy.


Not just the upperworks. The video from the sea floor showed shell holes above the armour belt and at least one penetrating hit (probably 16") on the armour belt. Author Ludovik Kennedy was there and writes that they could see fires through sections of the hull. The Germans hastened the sinking but it was going to sink whether they scuttled or not. The Germans do get credit for building a tough ship.

_____________________________

No matter how bad a situation is, you can always make it worse. - Chris Hadfield : An Astronaut's Guide To Life On Earth

(in reply to Denniss)
Post #: 19
RE: Kaga Found - 10/20/2019 1:39:25 AM   
spence

 

Posts: 5400
Joined: 4/20/2003
From: Vancouver, Washington
Status: offline 		There was no way that the Germans could ever salvage the KMS Bismarck 300 nm West of their nearest port (Brest) just as the Japanese could never have salvaged any of their carriers when they were 700 miles or so East of their nearest port (which had no repair facilities in any case). Thus we can attribute all of the Japanese losses (regardless of what they might claim) to Rafe's prescient secreting a bomb with a multiyear fuze onto each of their carriers while an attache in Tokyo many years before the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor.

(in reply to Skyros)
Post #: 20
RE: Kaga Found - 10/20/2019 2:48:32 AM   
BBfanboy


Posts: 18046
Joined: 8/4/2010
From: Winnipeg, MB
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: spence

There was no way that the Germans could ever salvage the KMS Bismarck 300 nm West of their nearest port (Brest) just as the Japanese could never have salvaged any of their carriers when they were 700 miles or so East of their nearest port (which had no repair facilities in any case). Thus we can attribute all of the Japanese losses (regardless of what they might claim) to Rafe's prescient secreting a bomb with a multiyear fuze onto each of their carriers while an attache in Tokyo many years before the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor.

Did he have a pretty US Navy nurse on exchange with the IJN give the guards their mandatory hypodermic shots in the butt so he could sneak past them? Did the guards come back for seconds?

_____________________________

No matter how bad a situation is, you can always make it worse. - Chris Hadfield : An Astronaut's Guide To Life On Earth

(in reply to spence)
Post #: 21
RE: Kaga Found - 10/20/2019 4:11:11 AM   
Zorch

 

Posts: 7087
Joined: 3/7/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy


quote:

ORIGINAL: spence

There was no way that the Germans could ever salvage the KMS Bismarck 300 nm West of their nearest port (Brest) just as the Japanese could never have salvaged any of their carriers when they were 700 miles or so East of their nearest port (which had no repair facilities in any case). Thus we can attribute all of the Japanese losses (regardless of what they might claim) to Rafe's prescient secreting a bomb with a multiyear fuze onto each of their carriers while an attache in Tokyo many years before the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor.

Did he have a pretty US Navy nurse on exchange with the IJN give the guards their mandatory hypodermic shots in the butt so he could sneak past them? Did the guards come back for seconds?

Ask Mandrake-san. Mandrake-san good at giving needles and know all about pretty nurses...

(in reply to BBfanboy)
Post #: 22
RE: Kaga Found - 10/20/2019 9:34:20 AM   
warspite1


Posts: 41353
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Bearcat2

I always subscribe to the conspiracy theory that HMS Warpsite was sunk by a U-boat in 1941 and they renamed HMS Barham to Warspite to keep up British morale.
warspite1

I believe that was Rafe McCauley's idea too. He made the suggestion while on the phone to the PM to wish him Happy Christmas. Winston unburdened himself to Rafe about how badly things were going and Rafe, quick as a flash, came up with this spiffing wheeze .


_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



(in reply to Bearcat2)
Post #: 23
RE: Kaga Found - 10/20/2019 9:48:06 AM   
HansBolter


Posts: 7704
Joined: 7/6/2006
From: United States
Status: offline 		So who's playing the victim now.

Agitate looking for a response and when you receive it you immediately become the victim for being on the receiving end of it.

Absolutely incredible.

YOU started this skippy.

How about you man up and offer an apology for your offensive insult instead of accusing others of over reacting while playing the victim?

< Message edited by HansBolter -- 10/20/2019 9:51:28 AM >

_____________________________

Hans


(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 24
RE: Kaga Found - 10/20/2019 10:19:24 AM   
warspite1


Posts: 41353
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: offline 		What was that response all about??

Firstly I make a perfectly inoffensive comment that you react hysterically too for absolutely no reason other than you want to see something in my post that wasn't there - and my posting history on the subject of all things USN confirms this.

The only person who has over reacted is you. If you think that my post was so outrageous why did you not have the same reaction when others have posted similar about the Bismarck episode? Why don't you get all excited and unnecessary about that?

Victim? Started this? Man up? OFFENSIVE INSULT? (did you really post that?)

Funny how others realised the post was jokey and in no way offensive - but not you - and yet you believe you are in the right. I think you need to re-read what was posted and the context and then you can apologise - which of course I accept.

< Message edited by warspite1 -- 10/20/2019 10:27:19 AM >

_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



(in reply to HansBolter)
Post #: 25
RE: Kaga Found - 10/20/2019 10:33:51 AM   
Orm


Posts: 22154
Joined: 5/3/2008
From: Sweden
Status: offline 		Thank you, warspite1, for the laugh.

_____________________________

Have a bit more patience with newbies. Of course some of them act dumb -- they're often students, for heaven's sake. - Terry Pratchett

(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 26
RE: Kaga Found - 10/20/2019 10:34:22 AM   
Orm


Posts: 22154
Joined: 5/3/2008
From: Sweden
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Skyros

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/rv-petrel-battle-midway-kaga-wreck-aircraft-carrier-ww2-paul-allen-a9161481.html


Thank you, Skyros, for sharing.

_____________________________

Have a bit more patience with newbies. Of course some of them act dumb -- they're often students, for heaven's sake. - Terry Pratchett

(in reply to Skyros)
Post #: 27
RE: Kaga Found - 10/20/2019 11:48:53 AM   
Zorch

 

Posts: 7087
Joined: 3/7/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Orm

Thank you, warspite1, for the laugh.

The distinguished denizens of this forum can argue about absolutely anything.




Attachment (1)

(in reply to Orm)
Post #: 28
RE: Kaga Found - 10/20/2019 12:08:28 PM   
Orm


Posts: 22154
Joined: 5/3/2008
From: Sweden
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Zorch

The distinguished denizens of this forum can argue about absolutely anything.

Indeed. Just remember that anything is better than nothing.

_____________________________

Have a bit more patience with newbies. Of course some of them act dumb -- they're often students, for heaven's sake. - Terry Pratchett

(in reply to Zorch)
Post #: 29
RE: Kaga Found - 10/20/2019 2:12:03 PM   
Zorch

 

Posts: 7087
Joined: 3/7/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Orm


quote:

ORIGINAL: Zorch

The distinguished denizens of this forum can argue about absolutely anything.

Indeed. Just remember that anything is better than nothing.

I don't know about that...there are some things I'd rather not have...

(in reply to Orm)
Post #: 30
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