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Ancient Europe - 9/25/2019 6:48:03 PM

ernieschwitz

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I had this thought, that I'd try and help out sbatman with his Ancient Greek/Persian scenario, that he suggested in an earlier thread. Well I figured that I could do some stuff while waiting for him to finish the map making, like graphics and such, and what better way to do this than make a new scenario...

So I have begun.

Right now I am making graphics for the units that will populate the map. It is a fun process once you get the hang of it. Trust me, they look great on the map too! :) However since I have still to make the Subformations and items (something that needs to be done before you can make a unit), I cannot really show them off.

What I can (sort of) show is the map I've made. This is the diplomatic map. It shows off the factions and cities. Perhaps too many cities... but it felt right.

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RE: Ancient Europe - 9/26/2019 8:44:18 PM

ernieschwitz

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I guess some of you might want to take a closer look at the map. For sake of ease I have used the ANewDawn graphics, except for cities, which I have made like you can see in the image below. Maybe some of you have an idea where this is?

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RE: Ancient Europe - 9/29/2019 7:16:40 PM

ernieschwitz

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Working on making combat work properly now. Had to scrap an early idea at the concept stage too, about how you would gain new troops. I had planned on making HQs and Formations only available via PP purchase, but that stranded on a number of things. It would however had made armies look more realistic, and encouraged players to play a certain way. So at the moment I am juggling a few other things that might replace that way of doing things.

Anyway, while I am working on combat, I of course had to have some units to do it with. Hence I began populating the map. Here is a little example of what the Empire of Rome and Unified Greece look like. I hope you enjoy it.

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RE: Ancient Europe - 9/30/2019 9:29:30 PM

ernieschwitz

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I am slowly putting all the units on the map now. It takes some time. I need to do a little research between each nation or group of nations cities and tribes, as well as make some up as I go. So far I've placed the following factions on the map:

Rome
Greece
Carthage
Persia
Egypt
Iberia
Scythia
Celts

Still have a way to go. Five factions are still lacking units, and I need to look at their city's production as well as their total economy. Still I am having fun :) Here is a picture of parts of Spain (with hexcoloring turned on).

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RE: Ancient Europe - 10/1/2019 3:59:43 AM

Ormand

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Nice job. A real change of pace.

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Post #: 5

RE: Ancient Europe - 10/2/2019 11:11:54 PM

ernieschwitz

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Thanks Ormand :)

I think it is time to show off some of the new unit pictures. So here, without too much of an introduction are some Celts. These are some Warriors, which is a substandard infantry unit, Infantry, which is a standard infantry unit, and some slingers, that are light infantry units. This "little" band of troops is quite effective against troops in the open, a bit less when the enemy is in defensive positions.

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RE: Ancient Europe - 10/2/2019 11:40:12 PM

ArmouredLion

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I agree... WW2, while still loved, could use a change up... this looks like a great mod!!!

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Post #: 7

RE: Ancient Europe - 10/3/2019 12:33:17 AM

Twotribes

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We gonna be able to play this?

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Post #: 8

RE: Ancient Europe - 10/3/2019 12:40:51 AM

ernieschwitz

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Thanks, I hope it will be great too :)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ArmouredLion

I agree... WW2, while still loved, could use a change up... this looks like a great mod!!!

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Post #: 9

RE: Ancient Europe - 10/3/2019 12:42:07 AM

ernieschwitz

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Well, I never made a scenario that wasn't playable. Although with 13 regimes (currently) I think I might need to do some AI work too. I don't imagine 13 players finding time to play this.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Twotribes

We gonna be able to play this?

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Post #: 10

RE: Ancient Europe - 10/3/2019 3:28:42 PM

ArmouredLion

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Never know... but work on that AI just the same... in case :)

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Post #: 11

RE: Ancient Europe - 10/3/2019 3:54:04 PM

ernieschwitz

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I've begun some internal playtesting. Mostly to find out if the balance is right, adjusting formations to what works, and removing those that don't. For instance the old Greek formation was 30 Hoplites, 10 Light Infantry and 5 Slingers. That unit had a tendency to become overwhelmed by sheer numbers of enemy troops, so it wasn't that effective. Now I've tried a different make-up of it. 25 Hoplites, 20 Light Infantry and 5 Slingers. Here is a picture of the Phylai in question. Phylai is a Greek formation name, not sure if I'll keep, having trouble finding names for all regimes.

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Post #: 12

RE: Ancient Europe - 10/5/2019 2:13:24 PM

ernieschwitz

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I am working on action cards at the moment. I have made a few of them, but I won't reveal them at this time, except for one. This card allows you to get more PPs the next turn. The amount depends on how many production points you have. So this all sounds good, the card even costs 0 PPs. So what is the deal, nothing in this world is free. Neither is this card. It will cause a morale hit on your troops. So in the end, you have to ask yourself, is it worth it. Obviously if at war, it is a very risky thing to do. In my experiments the effect of this morale hit is over almost in 2 turns. Here is the card.

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Post #: 13

RE: Ancient Europe - 10/6/2019 6:43:03 PM

Bombur

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A Great mod. I�m anxious to playtest it.

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Post #: 14

RE: Ancient Europe - 10/6/2019 8:06:15 PM

ernieschwitz

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I am anxious to get into a state where I feel comfortable letting someone test it. But nearing that point every day I work on it :) Thanks for the kind words Bombur. :)

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Post #: 15

RE: Ancient Europe - 10/7/2019 2:50:35 PM

ernieschwitz

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Sometimes you run into problems with scenarios, that will have yourself asking, is this side really viable. Such a Regime are the Nomadic tribes and the Mauretanians. They have approximately the same amout of cities, and the same production output, almost. Compared to their other brothers (other regimes) they are about half the size of the average nation (measured in production points). This makes them pretty non-viable, even though they have been set as allies. They simply don't have the spare production to invest in PPs and other non-combat stuff.

So how to fix? Well, one solution would be to extend the map, but that would possibly lead to more nations that came into the same situation. Even if I did it, it wouldn't be an Ancient Europe map... it would be more of a North African/Europe map. Here is what I did. I made a trade route for each. Every turn, a caravan arrives and gives those two nations an amount of PPs.

But how do you balance this out, when there can be growth of economies (a post for later). You calculate the average production of all the regimes that are not themselves. That way they gain more PPs when there is more economy.

Here is a look at the results of one such Caravan. (Note the amount is randomized between two numbers that are manipulated from the above mentioned average).

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< Message edited by ernieschwitz -- 10/7/2019 2:54:24 PM >

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RE: Ancient Europe - 10/7/2019 2:53:43 PM

ernieschwitz

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Well, could there be more?

Yes. I made it so that you can invest in getting more PPs (more silver, gold and spices), from the trade routes, by getting more trade partners. This card will gradually increase the average amount of PPs you get. It costs PP though, so it is an investment. Here is the card.

EDIT: Changed the cost after I posted to 20. Seemed wrong you could get your investment back after 1 turn (if you were lucky).

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< Message edited by ernieschwitz -- 10/7/2019 3:28:36 PM >

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Post #: 17

RE: Ancient Europe - 10/10/2019 3:08:30 PM

ernieschwitz

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Right, so I am trying to get the combat system right, and balanced. To do that I decided to do some playtesting. It's a tricky thing striking that balance. There are so many factors you need to take into account, and not just the combat table. Which is good, makes for a more interesting game. Anyway, thought I'd show you all a screenshot of part of an OOB after it tried to attack (without success) an enemy unit, from Thrace. The poor Hoplites, that are decent in defense, got hammered. So back to the drawing board for them. This is from the OOB.

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RE: Ancient Europe - 10/11/2019 8:11:43 PM

ernieschwitz

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One of the really important things to get right in a scenario/mod/game like this, is to get the feel of the game right. This has to saturate it, and provide an experience unlike any before. So, it stands to reason that a lot of work needs to go into making the pictures of the subformation types, and their coresponding pictures on the counter. To that end, I have worked countless hours scouring the internet for graphics I found usable, to convert, manipulate and use.

Here is some of that fruit. The 5 SFTs you see below are all of the Light Infantry variant. All in all 6 regimes/nations can have these (one of these is a duplicate, so not shown). The astute observer will notice that some are named light infantry and others are not. Those that are named the same have the same basic stats, while those with unique names have better or worse stats. Last time I counted there was 64 unique graphics. Here is the picture:

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Post #: 19

RE: Ancient Europe - 10/14/2019 3:59:11 PM

BvB

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good scenario - I downloaded when you were putting it to the drop box from our 1938 game and played 2 human vs AI. My only suggestion would be there isn't much to spend PP on between research, cards, building. Then again that far back in history how much can you research, lol?
Troops start at 10-30 experience but except for combat don't seem to increase on their own to any level, so a new unit is the same as one sitting in garrison forever that could have been training?
Anyway salute to your time/effort - must have taken a lot of time to figure out all you wanted to include and unit graphics, etc...

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Post #: 20

RE: Ancient Europe - 10/14/2019 4:42:35 PM

ernieschwitz

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From: Denmark
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quote:

ORIGINAL: BvB

good scenario - I downloaded when you were putting it to the drop box from our 1938 game and played 2 human vs AI. My only suggestion would be there isn't much to spend PP on between research, cards, building. Then again that far back in history how much can you research, lol?
Troops start at 10-30 experience but except for combat don't seem to increase on their own to any level, so a new unit is the same as one sitting in garrison forever that could have been training?
Anyway salute to your time/effort - must have taken a lot of time to figure out all you wanted to include and unit graphics, etc...

Congratulations on being inducted into the Alpha Playtesters!!!

Yeah, I loaded it up there by mistake. It should have been a new folder that no-one had access to. The reason you don't see a lot of research is that I was testing out combat balance, and thus it would be very stupid to make more levels of troops, before knowing how the new levels would be.

The troops have low xp limit, cause I found that in ATG - stock version - that XP influence combat too much. I could and probably will, make a limit to how much XP you can get each turn too, so that this limit won't seem too pointless.

And yeah, it did take a very long time to do and figure out all the graphics, troop types etc. A lot of hard work... More cards, officers, ... in short, there is a long way to go.

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RE: Ancient Europe - 10/14/2019 5:03:50 PM

ernieschwitz

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Oh, and please don't spill the beans with any spoilers of stuff I haven't mentioned yet here... :)

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Post #: 22

RE: Ancient Europe - 10/15/2019 1:16:45 AM

sbatman

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Holy cow this looks amazing, great job!

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Post #: 23

RE: Ancient Europe - 10/15/2019 7:23:24 AM

Piteas

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Wow, this is a great mod... another anxious player to playtest it

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Post #: 24

RE: Ancient Europe - 10/15/2019 10:28:57 PM

ernieschwitz

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Thanks for the encouragement. It helps when people find your mod interesting, to keep on going. :)

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RE: Ancient Europe - 10/16/2019 1:17:21 AM

ernieschwitz

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Time for another update, and I better write it, before someone (BvB for instance) lets it out of the bag. ;)

I have made a new and interesting resource. It is called Infrastructure, which needs to be produced in a city. Infrastructure is used in a variety of different ways, but mainly, and for the sake of this post, it is used to build roads, forts, fortifications and bridges. It also has another use, but I will touch on that in the next post (tomorrow, I think). To my knowledge this is the first time anyone has tied building roads with a resource you can only get from your cities. It also fits into the theme of having an ancient world.

Here is a small screenie from my current testgame.

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RE: Ancient Europe - 10/17/2019 12:01:36 AM

ernieschwitz

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Right, as promised here is the follow up on the last post, that was about Infrastructure Points, and what they can be used for. I mentioned they are used for building stuff, that engineers can ordinarily build. They however can also be used to build up cities.

Each City has 10 different size categories. From village to metropolis. Each city produces 1000 production points per level of it. So a level 2 city, a settlement, has 2000 production points, and a large city, level 9, has 9000 production points. Simple system, and not quite unlike the way you can upgrade cities in GD1938v3. However, and this is where the infrastructure points (IPs) come into play, it costs 100 of them to upgrade the city, as well as 15 political points.

This so far, is the only way to increase your nations economy. No city starts at above level 6, so there is a lot of upgrading that can be done. There are also other advantages to upgrading cities, but I'll get to that in another post. I am leaving you with a picture of the card, that allows you to upgrade cities. Oh, and it can only be used once each turn.

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RE: Ancient Europe - 10/18/2019 12:22:15 AM

ernieschwitz

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Today we are going to look at Cities, and what they might be able to produce. Each city has a level, as you read in the above. A level 6 City can produce every kind of unit that there is available for that Regime/Nation. A level 2 city however cannot produce everything. Both can be seen examples of below. The smaller city has 2000 production points, and is level 2, while the one with 6000 production points is level 6.

As you can see, there is quite a difference between these two Greek cities. I would have made it possible to build special buildings in each city, so they could become unique that way. But that would mean doubling the number of cities types for each type of building I wanted to add. So if I wanted a stables and a barracks, I'd have to make 4 cities of each level... one without, one with both, and one with each type of building... so that's 4. Too many to make it worth the time. Instead I chose which "Buildings" were built in each level of city. It works, and is perhaps less confusing than the more detailed system would be.

Here are the screenies.

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RE: Ancient Europe - 10/20/2019 10:53:27 AM

ernieschwitz

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Some nations have special researches. That is they can research Elite or Special unit types, that none of the other nations can. For instance the Romans have Praetorians. The story behind them is that they are the Imperial Guard of the Emporer. They are the elite, and are represented as such. In the game, they are much like the Legionnaire. Both they and the Legionnaire don't take a first round penalty for attacking. This is due to the heavy and light javelins they hurl at their enemies before they charge.

All the special units, have some sort of uniqueness to them. The history buffs, will know their backstories. They are explained very shortly on the unit, as there is some constraints to how much text can be put onto them. Not all nations have a special unit. This is because they either had nothing special or because research did not bring up anything that was special to them.

Here is a look at one of the special units that the Greeks have (They have two special units).

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RE: Ancient Europe - 10/23/2019 1:45:45 AM

ernieschwitz

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Some of the updates I make here (most of them actually) is stuff that is well tested, and thus balanced. But it is also old news, so to speak. Today comes a very fresh item of news.

In ancient times and well up into the napoleonic age, sieges were a common thing. Somehow this had to be represented in this scenario/game/mod. Ordinarily you would think that this is well represented by the fact that you can surround a city and thus keep it out it's main supply network. And sure you could do that, but, every city also acts as a place that produces supplies. This can make sieges take an awful lot of time, if not be impossible if the city has a HQ in it, already commanding the troops within.

So I decided to take a different approach.

If a unit is next to an opponents city, and has 100 APs (obviously this means, has not moved, and is at full readiness or almost full), then it can conduct a siege. Now technically such a unit would not be surrounding the city, but, for arguments sake lets either assume that it does, or this represents an assault on the city walls.

Conducting a siege will cause damage to the city, and thus lower its structural points. This in turn will mean that it will have a tougher time producing stuff. This could solve the problem with having an HQ in the city. Of course there are casualties in such a siege. So I had to program that, as well as readiness loss, for both attacker and defender. In short, I had to reinvent combat, and I did an OK job, I think. Coming from me that would usually mean Good, but not Excellent. It took me about a day to complete the events involved.

Here is the card that allows you to conduct a siege.

Note it doesn't select a unit to do this, rather it selects a city that has the requirements met, for you to play the card. I would have made it a unit, but, I have some cities that are 1 hex appart, and then I would have to make a 2nd card, to allow the first card to work, and that could mean doing something nobody has ever done... making a card that plays a second card, both requiring a selection. Simply put, not sure if that would work, at all.

EDIT: Changed it to 90 APs, since that is almost having not moved, and could be just a slight readiness hit.

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< Message edited by ernieschwitz -- 10/23/2019 5:24:31 AM >

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Ancient Europe