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First Impression - 10/24/2019 7:16:35 PM   
Essro

 

Posts: 129
Joined: 11/19/2007
Status: offline 		So far, it's outstanding.



My perspective:
I am 44 and have been a wargamer since age 10. One of my favorite genres is WW2 Grand Strategy. Some of my favorites have included 3R, A3R, AWAW, TK2, WiF, and AETO/APTO. They are all decent and each one shines in it's own way, and each have various shortcomings. I have always said that the perfect game would be a combo of AWAW+AETO+WiF+TK2 and then put it on computer.

My favorite computer wargame in this category is: none, they all suck (with the following caveat for TOAW below). Until now.

I will add TOAW in there for the following reason: I once took the Europe Aflame scenario and completely built the European Theater. Obviously, TOAW isn't built to do that but I did it and it was freakin awesome. It was huge and had hundreds and hundreds of events to control the strategic warfare and production. Dozens upon dozens of theater options. Probably had the most accurate corps level OOB ever assembled. I spent years on it. I was most proud of options I created for hypotheticals such as France fighting on. I must have read 15 books just about French collapse and resistance. In all honesty, I'm probably an expert on the subject lol. I also took great pride in the Italian OOB (I fell in love with the Italian Navy and they remain by favorite combatant of WW2). Utterly fascinating. Anyhow, it was a labor of love and of course it doesn't really work--you had to manually trigger some events and so forth.

And now I have Warplan and I'm---so far--very happy with it.

I'm going to use this thread for myself as a sort of checklist of observations and impressions. I plan to update it as I go.


Post #: 1
RE: First Impression - 10/24/2019 8:14:58 PM   
Essro

 

Posts: 129
Joined: 11/19/2007
Status: offline 		so here we gooooo....

I am playing the 1939 scenario, hotseat. I will be intentionally playing as close to historical as I can in order to examine the general flow of the game. I've been of the opinion that if a game cannot replicate history (within a reasonable amount obviously) then the model is flawed.

I am at Jan 40. Poland collapsed as expected. The Brits are attempting a half hearted bombing campaign. German subs are on the prowl. Neither effort is producing much in terms of results....yet. Weather doused any hopes of a fall campaign into France for the Germans.

Interesting note: I transferred the German army and air via rail to the French border rather than walk/fly them. I saw people in the videos doing walking them from Poland and thought that was absurd. While some units may have walked, they were taken by rail for the most part. Awaiting available rail transport did not impede operations in any way and it felt smoother, used far less oil. But I was surprised that the units I railed suffered effectiveness loss (?)



Tech: download was fine. No issues. No bugs discovered as yet. Runs smooth.

UI: fantastic, it's intuitive and easy.

Manual: the manual fell short in my opinion, not enough details about what is happening under the hood. Most of my questions that I had--and continue to have--are being answered by playing.

Map and counters: map is functional as are the counters. Looks great. I am willing to bet some modders will make it even better.

here is my running list of observations and questions from play. I am noting these things as they come up. Some things will probably be answered by further play.

-Canada is not rolled up into the UK. Not sure how I feel about that yet

-mission vs full support for air: I put everybody on full support, but I clearly had some battles where the air did not arrive even though they were available

-bombing an airfield--what's the math behind this? If I bomb a fighter unit, what happens?

-what is the anti-air value on air units used for? They also have a combat value

-would like to see an option with air range shown on counters

-there is a key for removing units in order to see the map, would like to see a way to filter just air or naval

-RN took out German sub early on...seemed too easy to locate sub

-does readiness drop when using rail movement?


...more to come




< Message edited by Essro -- 10/24/2019 8:40:36 PM >

(in reply to Essro)
Post #: 2
RE: First Impression - 10/24/2019 10:14:11 PM   
Essro

 

Posts: 129
Joined: 11/19/2007
Status: offline 		okay next update...

France is next. Waiting for weather to clear. Weather is a bit of a bitch. It will 100% interfere with your operations. Would be nice to be able to perhaps have a forecast of next turn or so. Maybe.

USSR-Finland Winter War was handled via event. Pretty standard. Not sure if this can be influenced one way or the other.

USSR unclear about Baltic States. If going for historical outcome, I wonder if I need to invade or will there be an event?

Undecided about Norway. Here is the situation: UK subs quite successfully interdicting German convoys along Norwegian coast. I sent some German DD in pursuit but have failed to successfully locate them. Perhaps invasion of Norway afterall. And I will say this: you will not be able to do this "on the fly." It's a very complex operation to replicate the historical outcome. You will need to prep and be prepared well before the event.

HQs...hmmm..they seem to function more like Army Group HQs than Army level ones. Really want to be able to assign specific corps to specific HQs.


Having oil issues for Canada and France. This was surprising. Will need other players input to assess.


Without a doubt oil is a tricky thing to balance. What I do like, is that it keeps the fleets from running amok all over the map. If you want to send some ships out, you'd better have something specific in mind. Wandering around aimlessly in the Atlantic ain't gonna work in the long run.

Possible bug? Allied player "deploy" button stays lit even when there are no units avail to place. Perhaps due to USSR reserves I suspect.

Going into France soon. This is where we shall see about stacking and traffic management.

(in reply to Essro)
Post #: 3
RE: First Impression - 10/24/2019 10:31:24 PM   
AlvaroSousa


Posts: 9927
Joined: 7/29/2013
Status: offline 		Ill take each one...

Rail Effectiveness Loss - You are moving 20k-60k men over crowded rail cars over a long distance. It takes time to reorganize, count equipment, and stretch your legs.

Manual - which questions you want answered? Remember the game is a game of incomplete information. If there is something specifically missing let me know.

Map and counters - that's why I made it moddable :D Players can get creative and then pick their own style. I even included blanks.

Canada - I thought about that but Canada has their own units and deployment. I believe most players want to feel like Canada is a real country.

Full Support - Air units fly based on operation points. So you might have run out of operation points to fly planes.

Airfield Bombing - Bombing an airfield is like bombing a land unit. It lowers the effectiveness and some air planes. If you want to prevent your opponent from striking your forces it is an option.

Anti-Air on planes - These are AA guns at their airfield. They only come into play if they are bombed.

Ranges on Counters - Part of the good UI is knowing what information is important and not to overload the map with visuals. Any of the lighted, semi-lighter, and non lighted hexes shows you the range of the air unit when you click on it. It is all generic anyways.

RN vs sub - sometimes it's just luck they hit. Also how low was the sub's strength?

Rail Effectiveness Loss - yes.

Toggle Units = "u" just hover over a toggle and you will see the hot key in BOLD lettering or click the "?" for the hot keys. The unit toggle removes all units. There is no feature for different kinds but I will add it to the list.





_____________________________

Creator Kraken Studios
- WarPlan
- WarPlan Pacific

Designer Strategic Command
- Brute Force (mod) SC2
- Assault on Communism SC2
- Assault on Democracy SC2
- Map Image Importer SC3

(in reply to Essro)
Post #: 4
RE: First Impression - 10/25/2019 1:58:49 AM   
basilstaghare

 

Posts: 173
Joined: 7/5/2015
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Essro

So far, it's outstanding.



This! I agree...outstanding strategic campaign...will be sinking a bunch of hours into it...

(in reply to Essro)
Post #: 5
RE: First Impression - 10/25/2019 4:24:11 AM   
Essro

 

Posts: 129
Joined: 11/19/2007
Status: offline 		Calling it a day.

France fell in 6 turns. Belgium fell in 3. Netherlands in two.

German panzers punched a beautiful hole in the French line along the Meuse and drove to the sea, catching a fair number of troops. The BEF was a no show however as I completely botched it as the UK player (lesson learned).

I never did go after Norway or Denmark. The Norway operation is fairly sophisticated and I need to plan that much better.

Also, my 1FJ never reached 100% effectiveness so it was unable to drop in time for any operations. This is likely an issue that Alvaro should look at or perhaps I am not understanding something. They sat for many many turns doing absolutely nothing.

I'll be ending that game and starting anew (too many dumb mistakes--to include a suicide sub run at Scapa Flow to see what would happen. hint: it didn't end well.)

But overall, I'm very impressed with the game. My complaints are few, and almost all of them are attributed to me not fully understanding or things that can be very easily fixed.

Bottom line: pretty solid corps level treatment of WW2 that will probably get better


EDIT: I'm still thinking about stacking. It didn't bother me as much as I thought it would. France played out just fine, but I think the argument for both AND against allowing stacking is still up for debate.


< Message edited by Essro -- 10/25/2019 4:42:53 AM >

(in reply to basilstaghare)
Post #: 6
RE: First Impression - 10/25/2019 12:15:32 PM   
Redmarkus5


Posts: 4456
Joined: 12/1/2007
From: 0.00
Status: offline 		One thing I've noted is that if you leave Axis units in what will become Soviet territory after Turn 2, they get moved to the deployment box. Then you can deploy them on the French border without using any oil at all - as far as I could tell...

(in reply to Essro)
Post #: 7
RE: First Impression - 10/25/2019 12:21:24 PM   
OxfordGuy3


Posts: 1041
Joined: 7/1/2012
From: Oxford, United Kingdom
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Redmarkus5

One thing I've noted is that if you leave Axis units in what will become Soviet territory after Turn 2, they get moved to the deployment box. Then you can deploy them on the French border without using any oil at all - as far as I could tell...


That sounds like quite an exploit - at the very least there should be a delay and/or substantial effectiveness loss if doing this

(in reply to Redmarkus5)
Post #: 8
RE: First Impression - 10/25/2019 12:24:51 PM   
AlvaroSousa


Posts: 9927
Joined: 7/29/2013
Status: offline 		I'm fixing deployment exploit

_____________________________

Creator Kraken Studios
- WarPlan
- WarPlan Pacific

Designer Strategic Command
- Brute Force (mod) SC2
- Assault on Communism SC2
- Assault on Democracy SC2
- Map Image Importer SC3

(in reply to OxfordGuy3)
Post #: 9
RE: First Impression - 10/25/2019 12:50:55 PM   
juntoalmar


Posts: 601
Joined: 9/29/2013
From: Valencia
Status: offline 		Maybe they should be moved to the closest valid hex? (as unoccupied friendly hex in Poland)

_____________________________

(my humble blog about wargames, in spanish) http://cabezadepuente.blogspot.com.es/

(in reply to AlvaroSousa)
Post #: 10
RE: First Impression - 10/25/2019 1:12:46 PM   
OxfordGuy3


Posts: 1041
Joined: 7/1/2012
From: Oxford, United Kingdom
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Alvaro Sousa

I'm fixing deployment exploit


Great stuff! Appreciate you addressing these issues swiftly

(in reply to AlvaroSousa)
Post #: 11
RE: First Impression - 10/25/2019 1:26:35 PM   
delarocheg

 

Posts: 3
Joined: 11/18/2017
Status: offline 		Great thread thanks!

Alvaro, thanks for fast replies/comments. Convinced me to buy it!

From another thread, optional FOW that masks non frontline units sounds like something many would like.

Again congrats Alvaro!

(in reply to OxfordGuy3)
Post #: 12
RE: First Impression - 10/25/2019 1:35:00 PM   
delarocheg

 

Posts: 3
Joined: 11/18/2017
Status: offline 		Purchased!

(in reply to delarocheg)
Post #: 13
RE: First Impression - 10/25/2019 2:52:59 PM   
AlvaroSousa


Posts: 9927
Joined: 7/29/2013
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: juntoalmar

Maybe they should be moved to the closest valid hex? (as unoccupied friendly hex in Poland)


That is exactly what I am going to do.

_____________________________

Creator Kraken Studios
- WarPlan
- WarPlan Pacific

Designer Strategic Command
- Brute Force (mod) SC2
- Assault on Communism SC2
- Assault on Democracy SC2
- Map Image Importer SC3

(in reply to juntoalmar)
Post #: 14
RE: First Impression - 10/25/2019 2:54:04 PM   
AlvaroSousa


Posts: 9927
Joined: 7/29/2013
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: delarocheg

Great thread thanks!

Alvaro, thanks for fast replies/comments. Convinced me to buy it!

From another thread, optional FOW that masks non frontline units sounds like something many would like.

Again congrats Alvaro!


I'll look into it. The FoW is a new way to do things. It allows for deception. We see how it works. If it doesn't then it gets modified.

_____________________________

Creator Kraken Studios
- WarPlan
- WarPlan Pacific

Designer Strategic Command
- Brute Force (mod) SC2
- Assault on Communism SC2
- Assault on Democracy SC2
- Map Image Importer SC3

(in reply to delarocheg)
Post #: 15
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