Invasion of Norway

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Invasion of Norway - 11/13/2019 11:05:16 AM

Calaf
Matrix Trooper

Posts: 55
Joined: 7/25/2015
Status: offline

Thanks for a great game.
One thing, though: Invading Norway (Op. Weserübung) is far too easy, since only Oslo needs to be captured. In the game this is accomplished in one turn with one corps, and thus takes 14 days. In reality this took two whole months (9. April to 10. June), i.e. 4 game turns) and took a heavy toll on German forces, esp. naval and air. Losses (Wikipedia):
1 heavy cruiser ("Blücher", the state of the art new pride of the Kriegsmarine)
2 light cruisers
10 destroyers
various U-boats, transports and smaller warships
Luftwaffe:
1,130 air crew
341 killed
448 missing[1]
Total:
5,636 killed or missing
341 wounded.
Now SC solves this by a scripted event, but at a considerable cost in PP. I think this needs a fix in WarPlan too; invading and conquering Norway was not a walk in the park, like it was in Denmark.

Jon H.
Oslo

< Message edited by Calaf -- 11/13/2019 11:07:24 AM >

Post #: 1

RE: Invasion of Norway - 11/13/2019 11:07:19 AM

Hoyt Burrass
Matrix Veteran

Posts: 330
Joined: 6/30/2004
From: Montgomery, Alabama
Status: offline

Hi Calaf,

I think that if the allied player keeps a reserve available to respond to the invasion by occupying ports, it will take the Axis player more than two weeks to clear Norway.

_____________________________

Roll Tide

(in reply to Calaf)

Post #: 2

RE: Invasion of Norway - 11/13/2019 11:09:02 AM

Calaf
Matrix Trooper

Posts: 55
Joined: 7/25/2015
Status: offline

Hi Hoyt, I played against the AI.

(in reply to Hoyt Burrass)

Post #: 3

RE: Invasion of Norway - 11/13/2019 12:02:27 PM

AlbertN
Matrix Legion of Merit

Posts: 3693
Joined: 10/5/2010
From: Italy
Status: offline

Norway invasion -has- to be kept simple in games, due to how 'particular' it was.
Otherwise it would require a huge boatload of special rules to emulate it.

(in reply to Calaf)

Post #: 4

RE: Invasion of Norway - 11/15/2019 9:06:34 AM

Calaf
Matrix Trooper

Posts: 55
Joined: 7/25/2015
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A simple solution, that perhaps would better emulate the historical reality, would be a rule stating that both Oslo AND Narvik need to be taken before Norway capitulates.

(in reply to AlbertN)

Post #: 5

RE: Invasion of Norway - 11/15/2019 9:45:49 AM

AlbertN
Matrix Legion of Merit

Posts: 3693
Joined: 10/5/2010
From: Italy
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Problem is, it was a surprise business historically.
In a game, the player knows, can have the Royal Navy lurk around Narvik.

(in reply to Calaf)

Post #: 6

RE: Invasion of Norway - 11/15/2019 6:10:34 PM

TrogusP96
Matrix Trooper

Posts: 160
Joined: 6/15/2015
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Cohen, Sir that is a good point like so many of the events. What to do?

(in reply to AlbertN)

Post #: 7

RE: Invasion of Norway - 11/15/2019 8:30:23 PM

AlbertN
Matrix Legion of Merit

Posts: 3693
Joined: 10/5/2010
From: Italy
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For Norway I admit I really liked Strategic Command approach.

It was such a feat that to have the game replicate it without special rules is pratically mission impossible.
In Warplan Germany can invade Norway, or better, Oslo. Norway surrenders. Narvik is pratically empty... UK slips in some troop and farewell Swedish trade. Unless Germany can invest a massive amount of forces up there to dislodged the Brits that will get super entrenched by the time Germans get there.

(in reply to TrogusP96)

Post #: 8

RE: Invasion of Norway - 11/15/2019 9:33:25 PM

Chocolino
Matrix Elite Guard

Posts: 2095
Joined: 2/14/2009
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quote:

In Warplan Germany can invade Norway, or better, Oslo. Norway surrenders. Narvik is pratically empty... UK slips in some troop and farewell Swedish trade.

The Swedish trade only disappears during winter when the Baltic is frozen (which is bad enough). I understand that trade is routed through Narvik only then during those conditions.

< Message edited by Chocolino -- 11/15/2019 9:35:37 PM >

(in reply to AlbertN)

Post #: 9

RE: Invasion of Norway - 11/18/2019 10:52:09 AM

Calaf
Matrix Trooper

Posts: 55
Joined: 7/25/2015
Status: offline

Yeah, foresight is off course the problem here. So SC solution - scripted event - is the better one, by far, IMO.

(in reply to Chocolino)

Post #: 10

RE: Invasion of Norway - 11/18/2019 11:22:01 AM

mroyer
Matrix Hero

Posts: 914
Joined: 3/6/2016
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Calaf

Yeah, foresight is off course the problem here. So SC solution - scripted event - is the better one, by far, IMO.

While you're probably right, scripted events for this sort of thing is so.... uninspired. That said, I don't have any better ideas - I always hope the brilliant designer can come up with the awesome solution we mere players never thought of!

In a similar vein, I always wish somehow it could be figured out how to force a Soviet-Finnish winter war where AI plays the Finns, even in a two-player game. That would be pretty cool.

-Mark R.

(in reply to Calaf)

Post #: 11

RE: Invasion of Norway - 11/18/2019 11:33:04 AM

gwgardner
Matrix Legion of Merit

Posts: 6722
Joined: 4/7/2006
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quote:

Norway surrenders. Narvik is pratically empty... UK slips in some troop and farewell Swedish trade. Unless Germany can invest a massive amount of forces up there to dislodged the Brits that will get super entrenched by the time Germans get there.

The German player has to go to Narvik the same turn as when taking Oslo, park a ground unit on transport in Narvik harbor, and a naval force outside the harbor to guard the approach. The naval force will take some hits if the Allies respond, but that is historical. Next turn, that land unit disembarks at Narvik.

What Warplan needs is some heavy repurcussions, if the Allies park their own naval forces in Norwegian waters without declaring war first.

< Message edited by gwgardner -- 11/18/2019 11:39:55 AM >

(in reply to mroyer)

Post #: 12

RE: Invasion of Norway - 11/18/2019 1:32:07 PM

AlvaroSousa
Moderator

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Tough to balance Norway.

_____________________________

Creator Kraken Studios
- WarPlan
- WarPlan Pacific

Designer Strategic Command
- Brute Force (mod) SC2
- Assault on Communism SC2
- Assault on Democracy SC2
- Map Image Importer SC3

(in reply to gwgardner)

Post #: 13

RE: Invasion of Norway - 11/18/2019 1:32:28 PM

AlvaroSousa
Moderator

Posts: 9927
Joined: 7/29/2013
Status: offline

SC3 gives it to you. No easy rides in WarPlan. You must earn Norway.

_____________________________

Creator Kraken Studios
- WarPlan
- WarPlan Pacific

Designer Strategic Command
- Brute Force (mod) SC2
- Assault on Communism SC2
- Assault on Democracy SC2
- Map Image Importer SC3

(in reply to AlvaroSousa)

Post #: 14