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RE: Intellectus Ex Nihilo (Wal-Mart on Ice) - 11/13/2019 9:10:37 PM   
adarbrauner

 

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From: Zichron Yaaqov, Israel; Before, Treviso, Italy
Status: offline 		Pitiful the expenditure of torps on such minor targets, your DSs served very well their scope and the cause.

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Post #: 1921
RE: Intellectus Ex Nihilo (Wal-Mart on Ice) - 11/13/2019 9:11:18 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
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Kwangchowan: The nasties get in amongst a supply TF, demolishing it.




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Post #: 1922
RE: Intellectus Ex Nihilo (Wal-Mart on Ice) - 11/13/2019 9:13:28 PM   
Canoerebel


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Kwangchowan: This RN DD TF is low on ammo after skirmishing earlier in the day, but it's still game. The Hyuga leads a weird little TF (and most of the DDs seen to this point have been second-tier, 6-pointers).




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Post #: 1923
RE: Intellectus Ex Nihilo (Wal-Mart on Ice) - 11/13/2019 9:14:53 PM   
Canoerebel


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Kwangchowan: Both sides low on ammo. When the sun comes up, some enemy combat ships may be vulnerable to air attack.




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Post #: 1924
RE: Intellectus Ex Nihilo (Wal-Mart on Ice) - 11/13/2019 9:16:40 PM   
Canoerebel


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Kwangchowan: The sun comes up and enemy aircraft sortie. These raids target the beachhead, which is protected by one CVE TF. I think these are kamikazes rather than sweepers.




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Post #: 1925
RE: Intellectus Ex Nihilo (Wal-Mart on Ice) - 11/13/2019 9:18:39 PM   
Canoerebel


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Kwangchowan: Allied LBA strike aircraft target the pair of tuckered out, vulnerable enemy cruisers but not with marked success.




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Post #: 1926
RE: Intellectus Ex Nihilo (Wal-Mart on Ice) - 11/13/2019 9:20:12 PM   
Canoerebel


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Kwangchowan: Targeting nimble DDs.




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Post #: 1927
RE: Intellectus Ex Nihilo (Wal-Mart on Ice) - 11/13/2019 9:22:20 PM   
adarbrauner

 

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From: Zichron Yaaqov, Israel; Before, Treviso, Italy
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

12/2/44

Kwangchowan: Both sides low on ammo. When the sun comes up, some enemy combat ships may be vulnerable to air attack.




And now let'ssee wether your opponent has set up a good and sufficient coordination between land air and naval-ships, i.e. a very strong CAP on his ships;

given the past occurencies, and the hastiness whith which he wrapped up his attack, I doubt it unfortunately, i.e. the CAP won't be enough to hurt your naval squadrons, but let's see...


any how very great kudos for his determination, no oil/fuel production left, tough lossess in the air and minor vessels, still he's up to the challenge. wow...

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Post #: 1928
RE: Intellectus Ex Nihilo (Wal-Mart on Ice) - 11/13/2019 9:22:38 PM   
Canoerebel


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Kwangchowan: DS lacks bite - too many carriers are out of torpedo stores, as a lot of strikes were flown as DS & The Herd journeyed north through the South China Sea.




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Post #: 1929
RE: Intellectus Ex Nihilo (Wal-Mart on Ice) - 11/13/2019 9:24:49 PM   
Canoerebel


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Kwangchowan: Kamikazes arrive over DS in numbers. CAP handles a lot of them but not enough. A lot of leakers; a lot of hits scored.




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Post #: 1930
RE: Intellectus Ex Nihilo (Wal-Mart on Ice) - 11/13/2019 9:26:16 PM   
Canoerebel


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Kwangchowan: LBA makes sure one CA won't be fit to return to the fray.




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Post #: 1931
RE: Intellectus Ex Nihilo (Wal-Mart on Ice) - 11/13/2019 9:27:46 PM   
Canoerebel


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Kwangchowan: Probably just paint-scratching.




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Post #: 1932
RE: Intellectus Ex Nihilo (Wal-Mart on Ice) - 11/13/2019 9:29:05 PM   
Canoerebel


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Kwangchowan: There seem to be targets everywhere!




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Post #: 1933
RE: Intellectus Ex Nihilo (Wal-Mart on Ice) - 11/13/2019 9:40:28 PM   
Canoerebel


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Kwangchowan: The fighting ends, leaving a confused map. The Allies are ashore in strength at vacant Kwangchowan. Some important Allied ships are moderately damaged; some Allied TFs are low on ammo; what happens if more kamikazes sortie and target the already-damaged ships?; and what if Dave has fresh combat TFs to feed into the fray?

I weigh those things and elect to keep the TFs on station. Landings will continue at Kwangchowan. DS will remain on patrol. My gut tells me that Dave shot his main wad but, even if not, the mission demands utmost effort.

The loss of the supply TF is worrisome. As noted previously, this op was mounted with concerns about that and fuel. Checking over everything, I think it's still fine. Already 200k supply is ashore at Samah, and there's plenty left to come in at Kwangchowan - barring further mishap.




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Post #: 1934
RE: Intellectus Ex Nihilo (Wal-Mart on Ice) - 11/13/2019 9:41:49 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
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Air Losses: Japanese losses are heavy but not crippling, especially considering the hits scored.




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Post #: 1935
RE: Intellectus Ex Nihilo (Wal-Mart on Ice) - 11/13/2019 9:43:02 PM   
Canoerebel


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Allied Ship Losses: The supply TF lost hurts but the Allies didn't lose any fighting power.




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Post #: 1936
RE: Intellectus Ex Nihilo (Wal-Mart on Ice) - 11/13/2019 9:44:16 PM   
Canoerebel


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Japanese Ship Losses: CL Yura and six DDs confirmed sunk. CA Ashigara is heavily damaged. All told, I think Dave lost about 10 DDs, all low-value models.




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Post #: 1937
RE: Intellectus Ex Nihilo (Wal-Mart on Ice) - 11/13/2019 9:45:33 PM   
Canoerebel


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Kwangchowan: CL Yura and friends didn't do too much damage to the CVE TF.




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Post #: 1938
RE: Intellectus Ex Nihilo (Wal-Mart on Ice) - 11/13/2019 9:46:41 PM   
Canoerebel


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Kwangchowan: Considering the number of kami hits on the carriers, damage isn't too bad. But if another such strike should target the same ships.....




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Post #: 1939
RE: Intellectus Ex Nihilo (Wal-Mart on Ice) - 11/13/2019 10:00:56 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		From a denominator standpoint, this clash wasn't helpful to the Allies. The score is roughly 316 points for the Allies, 280 for Japan (that could go up, especially if a ship like Ashigara goes down).

But this battle has ramifications far beyond the points scored. For one thing, some Allied capital ships will need time in the yards. For another, Japan shot a wad and thus has one less to fight with. The invasion itself outflanks Indochina, Thailand and northern Malaya, possibly rendering them irrelevant. A new front opens in China, where Dave probably isn't ready for action behind his long-time MLR. And the Allies are an important step closer to the Home Islands, for strategic bombing.

I'm not sure if I want to pull the trigger on target 3 now. I'm weighing that option vs. landing the troops at Kwangchowan, at less risk. That could be another byproduct of the intense fighting. DS needs to replenish.

I feel good about the day's fighting, but two things tinged that feeling with a touch of slimy oiliness - seeing CL Yura get amongst the CVEs, and having the IJN CAs savage a supply TF, left a bad taste in my mouth. You don't like letting the wolves get in amongst the sheep.

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Post #: 1940
RE: Intellectus Ex Nihilo (Wal-Mart on Ice) - 11/14/2019 2:29:00 AM   
Canoerebel


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Battle of Hainan Island (as it came to be called): The two days that followed the great battle were much quieter. There was skirmishing, mostly on the periphery, with little harm done to the Allies but a few good licks against the Japanese forces. Three USN DDs put a TT into BB Hyuga, which sank one of the DDs. Depleted of ammo, Hyuga then took a barrage of hits from a combat DE TF that registered a bit. A raid of kamikazes somehow penetrated DS's awesome CAP and sank four empty LCIs. And Allied aircraft and combat vessels sank several more DDs and a PB TF.

The army of 1000 AV is ashore at Kwangchowan with 70k supply. Enough to manage until I can work in more, but not enough to get overly fancy with. Samah has 200k supply.

DS is low on ammo. The DDs and possibly up to CAs can replenish via AKEs at Samah, but the big ships need bigger ports, damaged ships need triage, and the carriers don't have torpedoes for the Avengers. That, and the supply situation, warrant pulling the ships back. There are a bunch of important tasks that can be done, and full supply TFs are already assembled at Singkawang. And CV Ticonderoga and two CVEs are ready for action.

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Post #: 1941
RE: Intellectus Ex Nihilo (Wal-Mart on Ice) - 11/14/2019 3:53:05 AM   
T Rav

 

Posts: 387
Joined: 5/29/2004
Status: offline 		Watching with interest.

T Rav

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Post #: 1942
RE: Intellectus Ex Nihilo (Wal-Mart on Ice) - 11/14/2019 8:12:51 AM   
CaptBeefheart


Posts: 2301
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From: Seoul, Korea
Status: offline 		Thanks for the entertainment! That was a strategically bold move. He'll have to bail out of Indochina as fast as he can. And once again Surabaya's shipyard will come very much in handy to handle those kami hits.

What are Samah's port and AF levels? I've been able to replenish 14" and 16" ammo with Harriman or larger AKEs (not sure about Hog Island-class; I usually don't convert them). I have not paid a lot of attention to CV TFs getting replenished from forward bases, so I'm not sure how that'll work. I'd be interested to hear what you already know or find out. It would be a shame if the DS had to retreat to Borneo or further south.

Also, don't forget, you'll be able to do underway replenishment with AEs as of January 1.

Cheers,
CB

_____________________________

Beer, because barley makes lousy bread.

(in reply to T Rav)
Post #: 1943
RE: Intellectus Ex Nihilo (Wal-Mart on Ice) - 11/14/2019 11:00:31 AM   
Canoerebel


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Status: offline 		Samah is a level 3(3) port and 7(7) airfield (the latter is up three since the Allies took the base). I have 200 naval support and a ton of AKE and AE.

I'm weighing options. Just in case DS has to retire, I'm moving more naval support, AEs, AKEs and ADs to Batavia, which is a level 7 port.

Another option is retire only far enough to retrieve the supply TFs accumulating at Singkawang, Borneo, while releasing damaged TFs bound for Soerabaja.

The Allied army is moving out from Kwangchowan, partly to apply maximum pressure on Dave. The target is cutting the road coming into China from Indochina. I have to be careful, given supply levels. The Allies army on Hainan Island, now 4k strong, is all available to come and assist (bringing some of that 200k supply).

Complicated situation. And fun. :)

(in reply to CaptBeefheart)
Post #: 1944
RE: Intellectus Ex Nihilo (Wal-Mart on Ice) - 11/14/2019 11:21:16 AM   
HansBolter


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Status: offline 		Very surprised to see so many AKs and especially xAPs used for amphibious assault in December of 44.

Also surprised to not see supply TFs comprised of LSTs.

The Kamikazes leaking through the DS CAP seem to have counterbalanced the last time when none got through.

That was an amazingly heavy penetration.

A little less than a month to go before your DS can bring along a ready resupply of torpedoes.





< Message edited by HansBolter -- 11/14/2019 11:22:38 AM >

_____________________________

Hans


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Post #: 1945
RE: Intellectus Ex Nihilo (Wal-Mart on Ice) - 11/14/2019 12:01:54 PM   
Canoerebel


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Status: offline 		xAPs and xAKs aren't used for amphibious assault, but they are used.

This armada brought along three huge armies - two ready for assault landings and therefore loaded aboard APAs, AKAs, etc. The third big army was in strat mode and aboard xAPs and xAKs and AKs. They unloaded at Samah and were ready in three days to re-board empty assault ships for the third invasion, if triggered. That's more efficient than trying to spread three big armies amongst the available assault shipping.

Supply comes via LSTs, AKs, and dedicated xAK TFs (that's always been my practice, though here it was more necessary because of the number of good transports in triage at Soerabaja and the number still "hiding" at Kota, after that invasion - DS retired while ships were still unloading, and will "pick them up" on the way home from Hainan Island).

Complicated things, but I'm not sure how you arrived at some of the conclusions as to what's involved and what isn't. Did I imply that LSTs aren't used for supply?

(in reply to HansBolter)
Post #: 1946
RE: Intellectus Ex Nihilo (Wal-Mart on Ice) - 11/14/2019 12:51:03 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
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Battle of Hainan Island: The enemy fought again, the Allies did well, but the points - if tallied just this one day - don't indicate the Allied prevailed. I think they did. Allied TFs destroyed a PB TF, six enemy DDs, and a bunch of MTBs. But the Japanese claimed a good CL and two USN subs. So Japan took the points advantage.

In the air, the Allies prevailed 4:1 (49 to 12) in relatively light combat.

It appears that Dave may be pulling his fleet away from Hong Kong, possibly abandoning the notion that he can afford to go toe to toe in this theater. Samah may already be too strong, with it's level 7 airfield and growing.

Down at Manila, I think Dave finally pulled out his damaged ships, including BB Kirishima. It appears he had to send it SE, around Luzon's southern tip, since DS and subs patrol in the other direction. I think the BB is hurting (she showed up on the sunk list, a hex from Manila, but I think that's a fable). Allied subs will patrol the area between east Luzon and the southern Home Islands.

The war goeth well in Malaya. And the enemy appeareth to grow weary and thus retireth in Indochina, me thinks; me hazardeth a guess.




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Post #: 1947
RE: Intellectus Ex Nihilo (Wal-Mart on Ice) - 11/14/2019 9:06:46 PM   
Canoerebel


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Kwangchowan Campaign: DS has replenished and can remain in theater, covering movement of reinforcements from Samah to Kwangchowan. The lead elements of the Western Army has nearly reached the main road from Vietnam. We'll see what kind of battle this turns into. The Allies lost another sub or two; the Japanese two more DDs and several ASW platforms. In this campaign, to date, I've lost two CLs (Caradoc and Houston II), a few DDs, and around 5-8 subs. Dave has lost CL Yura, possibly another CL, possibly CA Ashigara, with damage to BB Hyuga, and roughly 20 DDs. The air campaign has decidedly favored the Allies but at a cost of some damage to good ships.

The taking of Hainan Island and the invasion of western China has ripped into Dave's interior and he's scrambling to address matters. This should seal the fate of Malaya, Thailand and Indochina.

Burma: Allies are sending reinforcements to Burma by sea, first to aid in the Rangoon campaign and then to manage the situation in Thailand and Indochina.

Singapore: Allied army brushed aside light opposition to take Kuala Lumpur. Dave probably won't stand at Malacca and may not stand at Johore. He may prefer to keep the core of his Singapore garrison as strong as possible in preparation for the pending siege.




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Post #: 1948
RE: Intellectus Ex Nihilo (Wal-Mart on Ice) - 11/15/2019 11:29:04 AM   
HansBolter


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

xAPs and xAKs aren't used for amphibious assault, but they are used.

This armada brought along three huge armies - two ready for assault landings and therefore loaded aboard APAs, AKAs, etc. The third big army was in strat mode and aboard xAPs and xAKs and AKs. They unloaded at Samah and were ready in three days to re-board empty assault ships for the third invasion, if triggered. That's more efficient than trying to spread three big armies amongst the available assault shipping.

Supply comes via LSTs, AKs, and dedicated xAK TFs (that's always been my practice, though here it was more necessary because of the number of good transports in triage at Soerabaja and the number still "hiding" at Kota, after that invasion - DS retired while ships were still unloading, and will "pick them up" on the way home from Hainan Island).

Complicated things, but I'm not sure how you arrived at some of the conclusions as to what's involved and what isn't. Did I imply that LSTs aren't used for supply?



Sorry for the mistaken interpretations. Wasn't shown any LST TFs with supply and presumed they weren't there. Was shown only an xAP TF representing a major invasion and incorrectly interpreted it to be an invasion TF, not a reinforcement TF.

_____________________________

Hans


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Post #: 1949
RE: Intellectus Ex Nihilo (Wal-Mart on Ice) - 11/16/2019 4:38:15 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
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Asia: Dave commits a CL/DD TF against Allied transports carrying reinforcements to China (protected by DS in a blocking position). The enemy TF scores some hits against empty shipping but gets wiped out in the process. The reinforcements have been delivered, so it's about time for DS to escort empties and cripples back towards Java. DS won't leave the South China Sea - she'll receive inbound TFs and escort them back to Hainan Island.

Dave is fighting more persistently than I expected. Once his first wave got mauled, I figured he'd cede this area. The Western Allied troops in China must be giving him a lot of indigestion.




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(in reply to HansBolter)
Post #: 1950
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