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So what's happening with the new patch? - 11/16/2019 11:18:35 AM

Shadrach

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It's been nearly a year now since the last patch, and I've heard several times that a new patch is in the works. Judging by the time spent to release this, it must be HUGE, or it's fixed some really pesky bugs.

I would've like to see some kind of list of things already fixed and being tested, as well as some confirmation from the developers that yes, a patch is being worked on and an estimate when it will be released.

There are several things I'd like to know if have been addressed:

- Memory leak + crash issue on Windows 10
- UI sluggishness and general performance issues
- Several PBEM++ issues, especially end of game information
- Naval bombardment auto-kill issues
- All kinds of scenario editor issues

Again, some kind of information on what's changed would be great, and an estimate on when we can expect it to be released.

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RE: So what's happening with the new patch? - 11/16/2019 11:26:13 AM

RFalvo69

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Don't forget some form of "Players' Scenarios Greatest Hits" to be added to those already available.

Yes, I do know how to install them. Yes, I'm lazy

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RE: So what's happening with the new patch? - 11/16/2019 2:03:47 PM

76mm

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Yes, it has been a long time with no news on this topic...

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RE: So what's happening with the new patch? - 11/18/2019 2:27:53 PM

larryfulkerson

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The playtesters would like to hear about it too. At least I would. We're wondering what's up too.

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RE: So what's happening with the new patch? - 11/18/2019 8:44:17 PM

Shadrach

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Larry, what's the latest patch version you guys are testing, and how long has it been since you've heard anything from the developers or Matrix?

I'm sure you guys are under some kind of NDA but are you able to give any insight on the number of fixes or any major improvements, specifically on the things I mentioned earlier?

I think it's the complete lack of communication that's the most troubling part here, not necessarily the lack of a patch. I mean, we've known there's a patch in the works for a long time (six months?) but no idea what it contains or an estimate on when we can see it.

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RE: So what's happening with the new patch? - 11/18/2019 10:34:23 PM

larryfulkerson

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Shadrach
Larry, what's the latest patch version you guys are testing, and how long has it been since you've heard anything from the developers or Matrix?

I'm sure you guys are under some kind of NDA but are you able to give any insight on the number of fixes or any major improvements, specifically on the things I mentioned earlier?

I think it's the complete lack of communication that's the most troubling part here, not necessarily the lack of a patch. I mean, we've known there's a patch in the works for a long time (six months?) but no idea what it contains or an estimate on when we can see it.

I myself am testing 4.1.0.40 and it's my understanding that *that* is the latest and greatest version. But there's no oversight so the playtesters can run any version they want really. Tamas has left the team and so I'm not sure who is in charge now and that may be one of the reasons for the delay. We've heard very little at all since 08Oct2019. We're not sure what's going on. But the good news is that there's been a boatload of fixes. I'm not allowed to say what exactly right now but I'm not super up to date with what's been fixed since the last patch at any rate. It would be really nice if SOMEONE who is considered "higher up" would say SOMETHING about it. I'm wondering if that's too much to ask.

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RE: So what's happening with the new patch? - 11/19/2019 2:12:53 AM

Lobster

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Larry, in the dev forum Bob told you who is currently doing the job Tamas was doing. I'm not saying anything because I don't know if I'm allowed. But it is definitely someone 'higher up'.

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RE: So what's happening with the new patch? - 11/19/2019 2:19:33 AM

larryfulkerson

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lobster
Larry, in the dev forum Bob told you who is currently doing the job Tamas was doing. I'm not saying anything because I don't know if I'm allowed. But it is definitely someone 'higher up'.

And this Bart what's his name....have we ever heard from him about anything at all? Does he really exist? Does he know what he's doing or is he just another stuffed shirt? A note from him would do wonders for the communnity.

Note to Bart: How about a word or two? Pretty please. With a cherry on top.

< Message edited by larryfulkerson -- 11/19/2019 4:34:26 AM >

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RE: So what's happening with the new patch? - 11/19/2019 4:19:52 AM

76mm

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OK, I'll bite...what was Tamas doing that Bart is supposed to be doing?

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RE: So what's happening with the new patch? - 11/19/2019 4:25:19 AM

larryfulkerson

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quote:

ORIGINAL: 76mm
OK, I'll bite...what was Tamas doing that Bart is supposed to be doing?

Tamas was getting better at being the decider for the team when he left. I'm assuming that 98% of what he did was behind the scenes, a laison with Matrix for this project or whatever. But now that you ask about what he did directly, to be honest with you....I have no proof that he ever *did* anything. But everything had to be cleared through him so he must have been indispensible for having to do something.

< Message edited by larryfulkerson -- 11/19/2019 4:30:22 AM >

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RE: So what's happening with the new patch? - 11/19/2019 12:01:57 PM

DD696

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This makes me want to receive the title of "play tester" as it appears that is the only way a player can have any chance of the game being updated. Last official version .21, beta version at least .40. Assuming a fix/improvement or two or five per version and with 19 beta updates (assuming sequentially numbered) it would appear that someone is doing some work on this game. The lead programmer hasn't made any comment here since February.

Information would be nice - might keep some players from giving up. I'd like to know about editor improvements/fixes.

How about it? Make all of us play testers? Or at least me.

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RE: So what's happening with the new patch? - 11/19/2019 2:26:05 PM

76mm

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I'll pass on becoming a playtester--no time for that--but it sure would be nice for somebody, anybody, to tell the players what is going on.

Many of us have been playing the game for twenty years, it would seem like a basic courtesy. I can't speak for others, but I lose interest relatively quickly in games for which the devs neither release updates nor communicate--if the devs aren't interested/excited, why should I be? Contrast TOAW with many other games on the Matrix forum--the difference is night and day.

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RE: So what's happening with the new patch? - 11/19/2019 2:55:48 PM

DD696

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War in the Pacific AE had beta updates produced almost weekly for a very long time, years, until the programmer got pulled for another game. These updates were available to be used by any player who cared to use them. The last update for the game is the latest beta update. Matrix appeared to give up on the game and not release the final version in the case of AE.

Is that the case here? With the exception in that the beta is going to be held in great secrecy?

AE is a prime example of how a game should be supported, not counting Matrix not releasing a final version of it.

A very big difference in how this game is handled - I was going to say supported, but obviously the major difference is in the level of support.

So what's happening with the new patch?

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RE: So what's happening with the new patch? - 11/19/2019 6:15:55 PM

larryfulkerson

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quote:

So what's happening with the new patch?

Tamas, the most recent "leader" was replaced by a Bart somebody and so now maybe something will happen.

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RE: So what's happening with the new patch? - 11/19/2019 7:24:09 PM

DD696

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Well, I can truly believe a Bart Simpson is in charge.

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RE: So what's happening with the new patch? - 11/19/2019 10:07:22 PM

demyansk

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Looks like an independent person needs to work on it. I wish I knew how to do all the stuff for when I retire.

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RE: So what's happening with the new patch? - 11/20/2019 3:23:37 AM

Lobster

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DD696

Well, I can truly believe a Bart Simpson is in charge.

It's not Bart Simpson you need to worry about. It's Ralph Kramden.

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RE: So what's happening with the new patch? - 11/20/2019 3:14:48 PM

BigDuke66

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A patch per year is in my view the minimum goal that a game should get. It just needs this prove of support, TOAWIII showed how bad it is for the well being of a community when you have to wait for several years to get vital things fixed. Veterans here surely remember that it went as far as users releasing patches. The result was a community that basically ceased to exist, and that fallout was not only seen here but also on other places like the Blitz wargame club with numbers of played games & active gamers declining.

My current top problem with TOAWIV is the bugged interdiction, any new game starts from my side are on hold till this is solved. We can't just play a game with bugged combat mechanics. At least none with any noteworthy air part, so we are stuck with WW1 or before.

I don't mind that Ralph(our programmer afaik) doesn't post here, he's not there for public relations but to work on the game. But someone at Matrix must be, I don't care if it's Bart now or Homer or Bob Dole, but we really should either here or see something before 2019 is over.

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RE: So what's happening with the new patch? - 11/20/2019 11:04:39 PM

larryfulkerson

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quote:

but we really should either hear or see something before 2019 is over.

I quite agree. Maybe we should start at the top and send somebody an email to inquire.

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RE: So what's happening with the new patch? - 11/21/2019 2:56:25 AM

Lobster

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quote:

ORIGINAL: BigDuke66

A patch per year is in my view the minimum goal that a game should get. It just needs this prove of support, TOAWIII showed how bad it is for the well being of a community when you have to wait for several years to get vital things fixed. Veterans here surely remember that it went as far as users releasing patches. The result was a community that basically ceased to exist, and that fallout was not only seen here but also on other places like the Blitz wargame club with numbers of played games & active gamers declining.

My current top problem with TOAWIV is the bugged interdiction, any new game starts from my side are on hold till this is solved. We can't just play a game with bugged combat mechanics. At least none with any noteworthy air part, so we are stuck with WW1 or before.

I don't mind that Ralph(our programmer afaik) doesn't post here, he's not there for public relations but to work on the game. But someone at Matrix must be, I don't care if it's Bart now or Homer or Bob Dole, but we really should either here or see something before 2019 is over.

I would like to see hot fixes for bugs like the broken interdiction that have an impact on game play. That's not difficult.

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RE: So what's happening with the new patch? - 11/21/2019 11:15:52 AM

DD696

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Tamas was hanging around here yesterday but did not have any spare words.

So, what's happening with the new patch?

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RE: So what's happening with the new patch? - 11/21/2019 11:30:31 AM

Lobster

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DD696

Tamas was hanging around here yesterday but did not have any spare words.

So, what's happening with the new patch?

Hanging around 'here'? Tamas has nothing to do with this game now. Erik Rutkins was hanging around 'here' too as were many Slitherine/Matrix staff.

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RE: So what's happening with the new patch? - 11/21/2019 11:45:18 AM

DD696

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He was the only "official" I saw on this forum, but then I do not spend every waking and sleeping moment observing who is logged in. I rarely log in, but this is my home page and I check frequently and am rarely logged in. To my knowledge, there has been no official word that Tamas is not involved with the game, only a rumor. Which rumors should we believe? Should we believe a rumor that a new patch is coming? Should we believe a rumor that someone new from Slitherine is in charge? Should we discount all rumors?.

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RE: So what's happening with the new patch? - 11/21/2019 12:48:13 PM

sPzAbt653

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quote:

Should we believe a rumor that someone new from Slitherine is in charge?

To be clear, TOAW has a laison. Nobody from Slitherine or Matrix is 'in charge' of TOAW.

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RE: So what's happening with the new patch? - 11/21/2019 2:36:17 PM

Lobster

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DD696

He was the only "official" I saw on this forum, but then I do not spend every waking and sleeping moment observing who is logged in. I rarely log in, but this is my home page and I check frequently and am rarely logged in. To my knowledge, there has been no official word that Tamas is not involved with the game, only a rumor. Which rumors should we believe? Should we believe a rumor that a new patch is coming? Should we believe a rumor that someone new from Slitherine is in charge? Should we discount all rumors?.

quote:

Tamas, the most recent "leader" was replaced by a Bart somebody and so now maybe something will happen.

Larry's post was definitive.

If you open the game and click on About you'll see Matrix Publishing holds the copyright. Then as the scrolling starts you will see Trickysoft which is Ralph Tricky who is the developer. But, since it says Matrix is the copyright holder it should be clear as to who really owns the game. So, last I heard Matrix bought the rights and they are in charge but I'll be darned if I know how the whole thing is set up because they seem quite powerless to do anything about how development is going.

< Message edited by Lobster -- 11/21/2019 2:48:12 PM >

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RE: So what's happening with the new patch? - 11/21/2019 2:46:29 PM

DD696

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OK. My next question is "Who is the designated speaker for TOAW in an official capacity for the ongoing support of the game"?

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RE: So what's happening with the new patch? - 11/21/2019 5:04:28 PM

terry1040

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Do I sense a certain tension and negative swing in the discussion here?

Matrixgames has supported this game for more than 10 years.
Development is certainly stopped, but it has turned more into a labor of love.
So if there is a patch in the works (and it looks like it is), it might well take 1-2-3 years to appear.
We have seen this with so many other games (EDBTR comes across my mind).
And that is all totally fine with me.

Let us be thankful, that such an old source code and related software development is still supported.
They certainly do not make any extra money on this, so I appreciate any effort and support from their side.

Just my 2 cents.
Terry

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RE: So what's happening with the new patch? - 11/21/2019 6:45:54 PM

BigDuke66

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This game appeared 2 years ago and in my opinion is still in the "hot phase" where it should be tightly supported, that means patches AND communication.

Besides this, the tension is the bad feeling that some of us could make the same experience as in TOAWIII where vital things took years to be fixed.
The road of TOAWIII was rather bad, first it wasn't so different from the CoW edition so that community git split, then each patch took much longer then is predecessor with the last. It is just damaging to the community but few other games depend so much on it like TOAW.
Where do all the scenarios come from? From a breathing & living community and it has to be well looked after to keep it alive. Especially as we still have broken scenario because of the way counters are handled now, alone this needs the designers to come back and fix it, but I doubt this will happen if the community starts declining again.

So were are back at the point:
- Patches on a regular base at least once a year
- Steady communication of what is worked on, what is fixed, what new stuff comes along, etc.
That all isn't too much for a game just 2 years old

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RE: So what's happening with the new patch? - 11/21/2019 9:39:01 PM

76mm

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quote:

ORIGINAL: terry1040
They certainly do not make any extra money on this, so I appreciate any effort and support from their side.

I have to agree with BigDuke; There has been what, one patch since the game was released two years ago, despite a couple of major issues (air interdiction and shore guns), and a host of smaller ones?

As to "not making any extra money on this", I have bought this game four times in the last twenty years, never with any kind of discount for owners of the previous edition. Moreover, the changes in that time have been incremental and it is rather hard to believe that they have squeezed money from players to buy the game four times despite the fact that the game has changed so little. Are we supposed to wait (and pay for) TOAW V to get the next patch?

Finally, to contrast this game with another 20 year old game system, look at Tiller's games. Many of his games are also twenty years old, and have been patched regularly over the years.
Just in the last couple of years many of them have received free and significant upgrades (not even bugs, as here, but upgrading graphics, etc).

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RE: So what's happening with the new patch? - 11/22/2019 2:26:58 AM

Simon Edmonds

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When TOAW IV came out I noted in the various discussions that a lot of people considered it to be more of an update to TOAW III than a generational change as happened when TOAW III came out. In my humble opinion I think that this may be indicative of the developers running out of creative ideas with it. Or running out of steam. Or running out of interest. Any of those will work. On the other hand those of us who play the game are still going strong.
If there is a change of hierarchy or ownership then maybe now is the time for a real generational change to the game. Convert it to modern software. Bring in hexside features (such as lakes that block a hexside instead of the whole hex). Bring in more terrain types (a major part of Russia is wooded swamp) Have the option of using either hexagonal orientation (the current one isn't optimal for the eastern front) Have the option of either having rivers in the hex or on the hexside.(In the hex for narrow valleys; On the hexside for open ground.
Okay so the scenarios wont be transferable from IV to V. Think of the fun we can have converting them. It is currently fairly difficult to find a scenario idea that hasn't been done before. This will effectively wipe the slate clean and bring new people to the game.
Not saying I'm right. Not saying I'm wrong. Just saying...

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