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CMO performance on latest CPU/GPU - 12/1/2019 7:37:07 PM   
afelix1

 

Posts: 15
Joined: 2/26/2007
Status: offline 		Will game performance cap out on high end gpu/cpu combo. As a for instance will layering benefit from gpu memory? Will the game work better with more cpu cores.

Let’s say and i7/GF 2080 vs an i9/Titan. Thoughts and any insight into key info about what elements improve performance.
Post #: 1
RE: CMO performance on latest CPU/GPU - 12/2/2019 1:15:10 AM   
mavfin

 

Posts: 274
Joined: 6/22/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: afelix1

Will game performance cap out on high end gpu/cpu combo. As a for instance will layering benefit from gpu memory? Will the game work better with more cpu cores.

Let’s say and i7/GF 2080 vs an i9/Titan. Thoughts and any insight into key info about what elements improve performance.

I've got an i7-8700 (6-core), 32 GB RAM, and Windows running on an SSD.

Works fine, can run in fastest if I wish on some pretty hefty scenarios.

Seems to work fairly well with multi-core.

(in reply to afelix1)
Post #: 2
RE: CMO performance on latest CPU/GPU - 12/2/2019 2:04:34 AM   
thewood1

 

Posts: 6529
Joined: 11/27/2005
Status: offline 		Laptop Lenovo Legion: i7-9750, nVidia 1660 ti, 32 gb RAM, SSD. Op Brass Drum runs about 50:1 on fastest
Surface Book 2: i7-8750, nVidia 1050 mobile, 16 gb RAM, SSD. Op Brass Drum runs about 35:1 on fastest

I use Op Brass Drum as my personal benchmark. btw, CMNAO ran Op Brass Drum at 30:1 on the Lenovo.

To me, raw single core speed is the key. Multi-core helps, but that single core speed is the critical part. If you run TacView as the 3D window, the GPU is very important also. But without the 3D window, I have found only minor differences between nVidia and Intel GPUs.

< Message edited by thewood1 -- 12/2/2019 2:05:01 AM >

(in reply to mavfin)
Post #: 3
RE: CMO performance on latest CPU/GPU - 12/2/2019 3:20:29 AM   
stoltz

 

Posts: 7
Joined: 11/9/2019
Status: offline 		I have nearly identical specs as your Lenovo and Operation Brass Drum performance gradually degrades as the game progresses and becomes nearly unplayable after about 10 game time hours.

(in reply to thewood1)
Post #: 4
RE: CMO performance on latest CPU/GPU - 12/2/2019 4:22:04 AM   
thewood1

 

Posts: 6529
Joined: 11/27/2005
Status: offline 		Then there is something wrong with your setup. I have run it multiple to times to the full 24 hours. It will slow a bit when a lot of missiles are in the air, but comes right back quickly. What scan rates are you getting at the beginning and then during missile attacks?

(in reply to stoltz)
Post #: 5
RE: CMO performance on latest CPU/GPU - 12/2/2019 7:25:29 AM   
guanotwozero

 

Posts: 651
Joined: 12/27/2013
Status: offline 		I've not noticed any degradation but I've not played for as long as that at a time.

If it's an issue, I'd first want to check memory usage using resmon. That could reveal if any memory leaks are present - the bane of 24/7 software. That can, for example, slow down sorts and lookups of internal data structures, and even cause excessive paging (swapping to disc instead of pure RAM usage). I'm speculating here, but at least look to rule it out.

(in reply to thewood1)
Post #: 6
RE: CMO performance on latest CPU/GPU - 12/2/2019 1:52:07 PM   
JPFisher55

 

Posts: 589
Joined: 11/22/2014
Status: offline 		i have an I9-9900k with 32 GB RAM. I have run CMANO and CMO on a very large scenario (over 5k units.) CMO does run faster than CMANO, but CMO's best speed on this very large scenario was about 3:1.

(in reply to guanotwozero)
Post #: 7
RE: CMO performance on latest CPU/GPU - 12/2/2019 4:07:29 PM   
thewood1

 

Posts: 6529
Joined: 11/27/2005
Status: offline 		Define "very large" scenario if you can.

(in reply to JPFisher55)
Post #: 8
RE: CMO performance on latest CPU/GPU - 12/2/2019 5:21:29 PM   
stoltz

 

Posts: 7
Joined: 11/9/2019
Status: offline 		I will investigate and report back.

(in reply to JPFisher55)
Post #: 9
RE: CMO performance on latest CPU/GPU - 12/2/2019 9:02:35 PM   
afelix1

 

Posts: 15
Joined: 2/26/2007
Status: offline 		Thanks to all for the feedback. I am still wondering if the GPU helps render the graphic layers as you zoom in and out. Any thoughts on that?

(in reply to stoltz)
Post #: 10
RE: CMO performance on latest CPU/GPU - 12/2/2019 9:24:18 PM   
thewood1

 

Posts: 6529
Joined: 11/27/2005
Status: offline 		Not really. As I already said above, I have seen only minimal improvement switching from Intel graphics to nVidia graphics.

"I have found only minor differences between nVidia and Intel GPUs."

(in reply to afelix1)
Post #: 11
RE: CMO performance on latest CPU/GPU - 12/3/2019 1:09:38 AM   
LargeDiameterBomb

 

Posts: 80
Joined: 3/3/2019
Status: offline 		The developers wrote in one of the pre-release posts the following:

"Turbo-charged for your pleasure

One of the most immediately noticeable features, especially when running large or elaborate scenarios, is the jump in performance. Command now offers both greater absolute speed in simulation execution (ie. reduced “pulse time” as displayed when the “Show Diagnostics” option is enabled) as well as significantly increased CPU utilization, as a result of improved parallelism. (As an example of the latter, on a recent trial run of “Northern Fury #9: Hold the line”, CPU load was observed fluctuating between 65%-75% on a Core i7-6700 system. This may vary across different systems, of course). Maximum practical unit count has also increased thanks to better memory management, with the result that even more massive scenarios are now feasible."

As you see they reached 65-70 % CPU utilization on a i7 6700K. If I understand things correctly games are almost always limited by some main process that runs on one core and one core only and uses it to the max and then, demanding on the amount of multicore optimization, the game also runs several other less demanding processes that gets spread out on the other cores by the operating system and that constitutes the rest of the CPU utilization (That is not taken up by other programs).

I guess you don't need much of an graphics card to run this game. CMANO used to run fast in 4K with a cheap Intel Pentium laptop processor GPU, like the 605 series. I might imagine that CMO is slightly more demanding but any post-2015 graphics card from Nvidia like a 960 GTX or an AMD R9 270X that I have in my HTPC seem to be more than enough. CMO is just not a very graphics intensive game so the game speed is practically always CPU-limited.

I can't guarantee I have understood things exactly right but this is my impression.

(in reply to thewood1)
Post #: 12
RE: CMO performance on latest CPU/GPU - 12/3/2019 2:23:20 AM   
stoltz

 

Posts: 7
Joined: 11/9/2019
Status: offline 		I have fixed my problem. I cleaned out some programs that had snuck into my start up. That has fixed the memory leak or whatever problem I was having. Now scenario Bass Drum runs very well. Thanks for the tips.

< Message edited by stoltz -- 12/3/2019 2:24:12 AM >

(in reply to thewood1)
Post #: 13
RE: CMO performance on latest CPU/GPU - 12/3/2019 6:41:05 AM   
Galahad78

 

Posts: 386
Joined: 9/28/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mavfin


quote:

ORIGINAL: afelix1

Will game performance cap out on high end gpu/cpu combo. As a for instance will layering benefit from gpu memory? Will the game work better with more cpu cores.

Let’s say and i7/GF 2080 vs an i9/Titan. Thoughts and any insight into key info about what elements improve performance.

I've got an i7-8700 (6-core), 32 GB RAM, and Windows running on an SSD.

Works fine, can run in fastest if I wish on some pretty hefty scenarios.

Seems to work fairly well with multi-core.



I'm having issues with CMO and a similar config, albeit only with The King of The Border scenario.

(in reply to mavfin)
Post #: 14
RE: CMO performance on latest CPU/GPU - 12/3/2019 7:36:22 AM   
Rory Noonan

 

Posts: 2816
Joined: 12/18/2014
From: Brooklyn, NY
Status: offline
quote:



I'm having issues with CMO and a similar config, albeit only with The King of The Border scenario.


There's a known issue with KotB that relates to area complexity. It's scenario specific (i.e. won't affect any other scenarios) and it's being worked on right now

_____________________________


(in reply to Galahad78)
Post #: 15
RE: CMO performance on latest CPU/GPU - 12/4/2019 10:49:17 AM   
Galahad78

 

Posts: 386
Joined: 9/28/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: apache85

quote:



I'm having issues with CMO and a similar config, albeit only with The King of The Border scenario.


There's a known issue with KotB that relates to area complexity. It's scenario specific (i.e. won't affect any other scenarios) and it's being worked on right now


Yeah, I read something on this regard so I'm not really complaining

(in reply to Rory Noonan)
Post #: 16
RE: CMO performance on latest CPU/GPU - 12/5/2019 5:09:03 PM   
LMychajluk

 

Posts: 126
Joined: 10/8/2017
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LargeDiameterBomb

...
I guess you don't need much of an graphics card to run this game. ...


I had asked in another thread if it had been considered during development to include support for nVidia's Cuda for mathematical functions in CMO (similar to the way that graphics cards are used for Bitcoin mining), and if there was a particular reason it wasn't done, but I don't think there was a reply to that. I definitely don't think it's needed for graphics processing of the game (though it may help a bit w/ TacView).

(in reply to LargeDiameterBomb)
Post #: 17
RE: CMO performance on latest CPU/GPU - 12/5/2020 1:14:28 PM   
thewood1

 

Posts: 6529
Joined: 11/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: thewood1

Laptop Lenovo Legion: i7-9750, nVidia 1660 ti, 32 gb RAM, SSD. Op Brass Drum runs about 50:1 on fastest
Surface Book 2: i7-8750, nVidia 1050 mobile, 16 gb RAM, SSD. Op Brass Drum runs about 35:1 on fastest

I use Op Brass Drum as my personal benchmark. btw, CMNAO ran Op Brass Drum at 30:1 on the Lenovo.

To me, raw single core speed is the key. Multi-core helps, but that single core speed is the critical part. If you run TacView as the 3D window, the GPU is very important also. But without the 3D window, I have found only minor differences between nVidia and Intel GPUs.


Update with two newer latops:

Gigabyte Aorus - i9-10980HK, RTX 2080 Super MaxQ, 32 Gb RAM, M2 SSDs - Op Brass Drum ran about 53:1 over 10 run throughs

Surface Book 3 - i7-1065G, GTX 1650, 32Gb RAM, SSD - Op Brass Drum ran at 37:1 over 5 runs.

Just trying to keep the benchmarks going. Keep in mind these are all using the latest public beta. So game optimizations might have as much impact as upgraded hardware.

(in reply to thewood1)
Post #: 18
RE: CMO performance on latest CPU/GPU - 12/5/2020 4:38:31 PM   
boogabooga

 

Posts: 457
Joined: 7/18/2018
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: stoltz

I have nearly identical specs as your Lenovo and Operation Brass Drum performance gradually degrades as the game progresses and becomes nearly unplayable after about 10 game time hours.


Try clearing the message log. I've seen slowdowns when the message backlog gets into the hundreds.

(in reply to stoltz)
Post #: 19
RE: CMO performance on latest CPU/GPU - 12/5/2020 5:12:29 PM   
thewood1

 

Posts: 6529
Joined: 11/27/2005
Status: offline 		That's a good piece of advice and the effort is appreciated, most likely. But that comment is over a year old. I was just updating the benchmark.

(in reply to boogabooga)
Post #: 20
RE: CMO performance on latest CPU/GPU - 12/8/2020 1:57:53 PM   
Twistedpretzel

 

Posts: 47
Joined: 9/6/2020
Status: offline 		I am interested in this, hopefully I pick up one of the new Ryzen processors soon and I'll report benchmarks.

Just out of curiosity, what is that metric you are using and how do I see it in my game? (53:1 or 37:1) Thanks!

(in reply to thewood1)
Post #: 21
RE: CMO performance on latest CPU/GPU - 12/8/2020 2:01:05 PM   
thewood1

 

Posts: 6529
Joined: 11/27/2005
Status: offline 		I just timed it on a stopwatch. Its not hard.

(in reply to Twistedpretzel)
Post #: 22
RE: CMO performance on latest CPU/GPU - 12/8/2020 2:28:15 PM   
Twistedpretzel

 

Posts: 47
Joined: 9/6/2020
Status: offline 		Definitely not hard to do! Thank you for clarifying your testing methodology.

(in reply to thewood1)
Post #: 23
RE: CMO performance on latest CPU/GPU - 12/9/2020 4:07:57 AM   
Rory Noonan

 

Posts: 2816
Joined: 12/18/2014
From: Brooklyn, NY
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: stoltz

I have fixed my problem. I cleaned out some programs that had snuck into my start up. That has fixed the memory leak or whatever problem I was having. Now scenario Bass Drum runs very well. Thanks for the tips.

Glad to hear !

_____________________________


(in reply to stoltz)
Post #: 24
RE: CMO performance on latest CPU/GPU - 12/12/2020 5:21:08 PM   
p1t1o

 

Posts: 271
Joined: 4/6/2015
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Twistedpretzel

Definitely not hard to do! Thank you for clarifying your testing methodology.



(in reply to Twistedpretzel)
Post #: 25
RE: CMO performance on latest CPU/GPU - 12/14/2020 5:59:44 PM   
Twistedpretzel

 

Posts: 47
Joined: 9/6/2020
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: thewood1

I just timed it on a stopwatch. Its not hard.


Hope I am not beating a dead horse, but I am just trying to establish a solid testing parameter that is repeatable with similar results for each user/setup.

I would assume for benchmark and testing purposes you turn off all messages that would pause the game and run it at a fixed speed until the time runs out, without actually playing the scenario like launching aircraft or giving any human input? Which speed do you recommend using?

(in reply to thewood1)
Post #: 26
RE: CMO performance on latest CPU/GPU - 12/14/2020 7:21:58 PM   
thewood1

 

Posts: 6529
Joined: 11/27/2005
Status: offline 		I built a version of Op Bass Drum with missions for the blue side. Of course no pauses. Its not fixed speed. Its as fast as it can run.

My suggestion is to run a mission, any mission, on the old PC and the new one.

(in reply to Twistedpretzel)
Post #: 27
RE: CMO performance on latest CPU/GPU - 12/20/2020 5:35:09 PM   
Twistedpretzel

 

Posts: 47
Joined: 9/6/2020
Status: offline 		I had too many variations with timing to make areal determination. I have a 5800x and compared to an older i7-7700k the anecdotal evidence is that CMO runs much smoother during large scenarios, with a lower pulse time at all speed settings.

I did notice of the 16 threads on this CPU one is used heavily, another 3 are used moderately, and the other 12 don't seem to be used for CMO at all. I enabled multithread in the command.ini file in the config folder and after short testing it did not appear to have any noticeable impact on thread usage. For no other reason than curiosity and more power always being better, I wonder what kind of performance would be garnered if all 16 threads were used! It is nice having plenty of processing power in the backend not dedicated to CMO though, it also keeps temps relatively low and doesn't tax the system too much while still providing excellent performance.

That is my super anecdotal feedback.

(in reply to thewood1)
Post #: 28
RE: CMO performance on latest CPU/GPU - 12/20/2020 6:25:47 PM   
thewood1

 

Posts: 6529
Joined: 11/27/2005
Status: offline 		Weird that you have so many differences in timing. All of the testing I've done has shown very consistent times with the same rig and scenario.

(in reply to Twistedpretzel)
Post #: 29
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