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Question of command points - 12/2/2019 1:22:26 PM   
pbcrnk

 

Posts: 45
Joined: 8/15/2016
Status: offline 		Playing my first campaign as SU and am looking for a simplistic answer to whether it is better to overload Fronts or Armies as far as command points go? Or is it ok to keep Armies attached to Stavka so the Fronts don't get over loaded. Right now in Dec 1941 I have way more Army's than I have Front's to command them. Thanks.
Post #: 1
RE: Question of command points - 12/2/2019 1:29:29 PM   
No idea

 

Posts: 495
Joined: 6/24/2011
Status: offline 		Afaik it is better to overload fronts instead of attaching armies to STAVKA. Somebody did the numbers some time ago

(in reply to pbcrnk)
Post #: 2
RE: Question of command points - 12/2/2019 1:36:46 PM   
pbcrnk

 

Posts: 45
Joined: 8/15/2016
Status: offline 		Really? Came across this in a post below so am confused. I would think that while losing out on leadership rolls would be bad the ability to access front resources like air support would outweigh them so I would bloat Front's till more came along.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Telemecus
If you overload a front, then the units will have worse ratings than if you just assign the army HQ to STAVKA. So surely the optimum at least is to never overload a front


(in reply to No idea)
Post #: 3
RE: Question of command points - 12/2/2019 1:44:19 PM   
joelmar


Posts: 1023
Joined: 3/16/2019
Status: offline 		When an HQ is overloaded, there is always a rating penality, increasing with the overload. So rule of thumb, it's better never to overload when possible. But sometimes other considerations may come in play of course, so better to keep an open mind on things.

That said, when you realize the importance and incredible quantity of ratings die rolls for every unit at every turn, you understand how important they are. My own perception is they have much more impact than air support.

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Post #: 4
RE: Question of command points - 12/2/2019 2:09:16 PM   
pbcrnk

 

Posts: 45
Joined: 8/15/2016
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: joelmar

When an HQ is overloaded, there is always a rating penality, increasing with the overload. So rule of thumb, it's better never to overload when possible. But sometimes other considerations may come in play of course, so better to keep an open mind on things.

That said, when you realize the importance and incredible quantity of ratings die rolls for every unit at every turn, you understand how important they are. My own perception is they have much more impact than air support.


So for the first few months of the war half of my front will be attached to Stavka? Seems a bit untidy...

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Post #: 5
RE: Question of command points - 12/2/2019 3:33:02 PM   
joelmar


Posts: 1023
Joined: 3/16/2019
Status: offline 		Yes, it is of course. HQ overload problems and compromises are common for the Soviet and Axis players in the first year of the war. I guess you have to evaluate and decide where to keep tidy HQ hierarchies and where to just make sure things are working but not optimum. You won't find any ready made solution that works all the time, which is usually the case in this game. Endless compromises and tough decisions! lol!

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Post #: 6
RE: Question of command points - 12/2/2019 5:27:58 PM   
Telemecus


Posts: 4689
Joined: 3/20/2016
Status: offline 		Although the exact formulas are complicated for most of the time you can approximate adding command points to be just like subtracting points from a command leadership rating. So adding a division (2 command points) over the command limit is like turning a rating six commander into a ratings four commander. The formula for calculating whether a ratings check is passed is complicated with many modifiers. But at its simplest it is saying each point of ratings will give you a 10% chance of passing a ratings check at first level (Soviet army?) and 5% at the second level (Soviet front).

Say you have a Soviet front with 30 divisions each with 10 ratings a turn checked at front level with a commander with ratings of 6 - then you have 300 ratings a turn checked with a probability of 30% of passing (6*5%) - or on average passing 90. If you add just one division over the limit then you 310 ratings checks a turn checked with a probability of 20% of passing ( (6-2)*5% ) - or an average passing 62. That is not just losing some of the ten checks on that one division you have just added - but many more losses on ALL of the divisions that are in the Front. That is just from adding one more division. If you add in a whole armies worth of divisions and you are effectively making the ratings of the Front command pointless. They then would have to rely on the ratings checks of STAVKA - but checks from STAVKA would be worth even less because it is even further up the command scale.

So the choice is a second level ratings check with STAVKA, or a second level ratings check with an overloaded front (effectively zero) followed by a third level ratings check with STAVKA (which is worth less than if it was second level)

STAVKA 2nd level check > STAVKA 3rd level check + zero from front check

(note morale ratings do not get a command penalty in the same way as they do not get a range penalty also)

In practical terms many Soviet players I have seen use the Fronts up to their command limits and then have a set of "Independent" armies directly attached to STAVKA. Often they are grouped together in the centre to be the armies closest to where STAVKA is. It is not uniform across the board but I would say still farily tidy.

< Message edited by Telemecus -- 12/2/2019 6:24:56 PM >

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Post #: 7
RE: Question of command points - 12/3/2019 1:03:23 PM   
pbcrnk

 

Posts: 45
Joined: 8/15/2016
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Telemecus

So the choice is a second level ratings check with STAVKA, or a second level ratings check with an overloaded front (effectively zero) followed by a third level ratings check with STAVKA (which is worth less than if it was second level)

STAVKA 2nd level check > STAVKA 3rd level check + zero from front check


Awesome...what I needed going into Blizzard '41. Thanks!

(in reply to Telemecus)
Post #: 8
RE: Question of command points - 12/3/2019 5:03:37 PM   
thedoctorking


Posts: 2297
Joined: 4/29/2017
Status: offline 		If you go to the unit detail pane and click on supply status, you can see the possibility of making each kind of leadership roll for that unit. So you can test out changes in command status for yourself.

My sense has always been that you should never overload an HQ at any level if you can possibly avoid it. If you have to overload, make sure it is a higher HQ and not the immediate command HQ.

Also, make sure the higher HQ is within three hexes of their lower HQ's if at all possible.

(in reply to pbcrnk)
Post #: 9
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