[WAD] civilian contacts flagged as hostile : why ?

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[WAD] civilian contacts flagged as hostile : why ?

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All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> Command: Modern Operations series >> Tech Support >> [WAD] civilian contacts flagged as hostile : why ?

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[WAD] civilian contacts flagged as hostile : why ? - 12/2/2019 2:17:02 PM

davidoux

Posts: 60
Joined: 11/28/2014
Status: offline

Hello,

I am trying to use Air intercept / strike mission with the pre-planned ("targets in target list only")
but it seems that every civilian contact is instant flagged as hostile now, not sure if it is because
of that particular mission ?

What is the difference between air intercept and patrol and which one should i use ? my objective
is to target designated HVT with stealth f35

< Message edited by apache85 -- 12/3/2019 4:31:43 AM >

Post #: 1

RE: civilian contacts flagged as hostile : why ? - 12/2/2019 3:57:32 PM

SeaQueen

Posts: 1451
Joined: 4/14/2007
From: Washington D.C.
Status: offline

Under the side menu in the editor, there's a box for "Use collective responsibility" or something like that. Is that checked?

(in reply to davidoux)

Post #: 2

RE: civilian contacts flagged as hostile : why ? - 12/2/2019 4:28:32 PM

davidoux

Posts: 60
Joined: 11/28/2014
Status: offline

i didnt even know there was an editor, since I am "playing" a scenario how am I supposed to edit the scenario ?
sorry if it is a dumb question,

(in reply to SeaQueen)

Post #: 3

RE: civilian contacts flagged as hostile : why ? - 12/2/2019 4:43:38 PM

thewood1

Posts: 6529
Joined: 11/27/2005
Status: offline

It almost impossible to give an answer without a save or scenario file. Any number of things can cause them to be labelled hostile.

(in reply to davidoux)

Post #: 4

RE: civilian contacts flagged as hostile : why ? - 12/2/2019 5:01:38 PM

davidoux

Posts: 60
Joined: 11/28/2014
Status: offline

Here is the save file,

notice also that whenever I change the contact status, if I save then load the contact status comes back to hostile
( I posted in the tech support) I don't know if it is normal,

also something which looks wrong, after pressing O, locate all civilian and change them to "neutral"
(there are 6 contacts to change otherwise you will loose instantly as my fighters will shoot them)

after that has been done,th f35 "ADIR-2" will be locked and circling around the Cessna 500 citation
altought he is assigned to a intercept mission on HVT, the workaround i found is to "disengage him"

To summarize up several odd behaviour :
1. contact status when changed manually is not serialized in the save game
2. Civilian contacts are flagged as hostile and i dont know why, my workaround i to change manually the status but 1. makes it unpractical if i need to save
and load the game later
3. After changing the contact to neutral, fighters already engaged with these contact (ADIR2 in this save) will circle around it and never disengage unless instructed manually

Attachment (1)

(in reply to thewood1)

Post #: 5

RE: civilian contacts flagged as hostile : why ? - 12/2/2019 5:37:46 PM

thewood1

Posts: 6529
Joined: 11/27/2005
Status: offline

Did you build the missions yourself or were they already part of the scenario? I think it has something to do with how the missions are constructed. It might hinge on ROE and what kicks off the intercept mission. I haven't looked in any more detail than that.

I also noted that the civilian side has collective responsibility. This is a common mistake with even experience scenario builders. Civilians shouldn't be simulated as a collective side. Otherwise, if one mistake happens, all civilians become hostile. No one will like that outcome.

(in reply to davidoux)

Post #: 6

RE: civilian contacts flagged as hostile : why ? - 12/2/2019 6:03:45 PM

davidoux

Posts: 60
Joined: 11/28/2014
Status: offline

I built the missions myself and this is a tutorial mission,

Flight Tutorial 8 - AAW 6 CoW - Advanced Combat

So you think this tutorial mission is incorrectly done ?

(in reply to thewood1)

Post #: 7

RE: civilian contacts flagged as hostile : why ? - 12/2/2019 8:02:07 PM

thewood1

Posts: 6529
Joined: 11/27/2005
Status: offline

I think the settings for your intercept missions are not quite right. Just a guess.

(in reply to davidoux)

Post #: 8

RE: civilian contacts flagged as hostile : why ? - 12/3/2019 12:00:02 AM

Rory Noonan

Posts: 2816
Joined: 12/18/2014
From: Brooklyn, NY
Status: offline

Setting a unit as a target of an intercept mission is the same as assigning an auto-attack against it (technically an intercept mission is just a strike mission in the air).

In your save you have one of the neutral aircraft assigned as a target of a mission along with some hostile MiGs.

The reason the whole 'Neutral' side is now considered hostile is due to the setting 'collective responsibility' on the Neutral side. That means that if you attack one, you consider them all hostile.

_____________________________

(in reply to thewood1)

Post #: 9

RE: civilian contacts flagged as hostile : why ? - 12/3/2019 12:44:22 AM

thewood1

Posts: 6529
Joined: 11/27/2005
Status: offline

Thats what I suspected. One of the missions had the activation set for "unknown" to activate. That means it will make ANY aircraft as a target. I still think the civilians shouldn't have collective responsibility.

(in reply to Rory Noonan)

Post #: 10

RE: civilian contacts flagged as hostile : why ? - 12/3/2019 3:25:22 AM

Rory Noonan

Posts: 2816
Joined: 12/18/2014
From: Brooklyn, NY
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: thewood1

Thats what I suspected. One of the missions had the activation set for "unknown" to activate. That means it will make ANY aircraft as a target. I still think the civilians shouldn't have collective responsibility.

I just want to clarify that it's the specific designation of a target for the mission in the 'Target List' pane of the mission editor that will make otherwise neutral contacts be treated as hostile.

If no target is designated and 'Unknown' is selected for the mission trigger, the assigned aircraft should launch and close with unknown contacts and--with WRA set to tight--ID them before engaging. If they turn out to be neutral the assigned AC will RTB (or go check another contact), if they're Unfriendly the assigned AC will trail but not open fire.

_____________________________

(in reply to thewood1)

Post #: 11

RE: civilian contacts flagged as hostile : why ? - 12/3/2019 6:01:08 AM

davidoux

Posts: 60
Joined: 11/28/2014
Status: offline

thanks, that makes sense i indeed assigned a civilian !

whenever i remove it for the list, it will remember it and flag all future civilian as hostiles, so i gues i have no other option than restart .... a reset collective status would be useful, thought ....

(in reply to Rory Noonan)

Post #: 12

RE: civilian contacts flagged as hostile : why ? - 12/3/2019 6:13:56 AM

guanotwozero

Posts: 651
Joined: 12/27/2013
Status: offline

This brings up a potential inconsistency; if a civilian flies into a patrol area, fighters will autonomously investigate to make an ID. They only need to fly close enough for the sensors to do that.

Conversely if there is no such patrol area (or target is outside it), there is no way to investigate other than setting an intercept course by estimating "close enough". Might it be worth adding an "investigate" action, so that an aircraft will fly just close enough to make the ID (with current EMCON)? Thereafter it returns to its prior mission/posture.

Edit:
I'll put in a request.

< Message edited by guanotwozero -- 12/3/2019 6:33:47 AM >

(in reply to davidoux)

Post #: 13

RE: civilian contacts flagged as hostile : why ? - 12/3/2019 12:18:38 PM

thewood1

Posts: 6529
Joined: 11/27/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: apache85

quote:

ORIGINAL: thewood1

Thats what I suspected. One of the missions had the activation set for "unknown" to activate. That means it will make ANY aircraft as a target. I still think the civilians shouldn't have collective responsibility.

I just want to clarify that it's the specific designation of a target for the mission in the 'Target List' pane of the mission editor that will make otherwise neutral contacts be treated as hostile.

If no target is designated and 'Unknown' is selected for the mission trigger, the assigned aircraft should launch and close with unknown contacts and--with WRA set to tight--ID them before engaging. If they turn out to be neutral the assigned AC will RTB (or go check another contact), if they're Unfriendly the assigned AC will trail but not open fire.

Never knew that. I have always made sure to not use unknown because of concern for fragging a civilian.

(in reply to Rory Noonan)

Post #: 14

RE: civilian contacts flagged as hostile : why ? - 12/3/2019 11:43:25 PM

LMychajluk

Posts: 126
Joined: 10/8/2017
Status: offline

I never knew the Aircraft on an Intercept mission would move on to another target once the first was ID'd as Neutral/Friendly, or that they would shadow Unfriendly aircraft. I did know the Unknown thing, though. ;)

(in reply to thewood1)

Post #: 15

RE: civilian contacts flagged as hostile : why ? - 12/4/2019 2:54:53 PM

mavfin

Posts: 274
Joined: 6/22/2010
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LMychajluk

I never knew the Aircraft on an Intercept mission would move on to another target once the first was ID'd as Neutral/Friendly, or that they would shadow Unfriendly aircraft. I did know the Unknown thing, though. ;)

I have used intercept missions to ID unknown bogies, and then decide to shoot or not, but you have to watch the mission settings closely for it to work; i.e. only fire if identified hostile. Then, I've seen a pair of fighters ID two or three neutrals, and then find the hostile one and shoot it down.

(in reply to LMychajluk)

Post #: 16

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