naval air strike too easy?

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naval air strike too easy? - 12/5/2019 4:56:15 PM

MrBlizzard

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Playing the Axis, rel 1.3
This turn my planes attacked some enemy fleet in the Mediterranean sinking many ships and without losing a single aircraft.
It seems to me a little too easy.
Here you are some examples,
in first example an italian tactical air group attacked and sunk 2 London CA groups

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RE: naval air strike too easy? - 12/5/2019 5:03:57 PM

MrBlizzard

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Here another attack by another land based italian air group:
The whole fleet was annihilated without losing a single plane.
The brithis lost 14 naval groups in all the attacks, the axis didn't lose a plane.
I think we got a small problem

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RE: naval air strike too easy? - 12/5/2019 6:12:50 PM

Essro

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You're going to have to elaborate more on what you think you are seeing.

In the first screenshot the Italian Bomber did "2 damage" and "0 sunk" at a loss of zero to himself. That's a pretty basic result. They damaged some ships, that's all. The UK player should escort that with a carrier. You'd get a different outcome.

In the second example, I'm guessing it was an un-escorted UK air sup unit traveling via ship transport directly across the Med. Bold. A sort of in game Operation Pedestal.

I am also guessing you are playing the AI?

Am I understanding your examples correctly?

Transports absolutely get hammered if travelling alone I've noticed. And rightly so.

< Message edited by Essro -- 12/5/2019 6:37:38 PM >

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RE: naval air strike too easy? - 12/5/2019 6:21:46 PM

AlvaroSousa

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Land based air is unbelievably destructive to any fleet. That Italian air unit is 300 planes at full strength. They Americans had what 150-200 at Midway and they effectively sank 2 WarPlan carrier groups.

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RE: naval air strike too easy? - 12/5/2019 6:40:12 PM

MrBlizzard

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Essro

You're going to have to elaborate more on what you think you are seeing.

In the first screenshot the Italian Bomber did "2 damage" and "0 sunk" at a loss of zero to himself. That's a pretty basic result. They damaged some ships, that's all. The UK player should escort that with a carrier. You'd get a different outcome.

In the second example, I'm guessing it was an un-escorted UK air sup unit traveling via ship transport directly across the Med. Bold. A sort of in game Operation Pedestal.

I am also guessing you are playing the AI?

Am I understanding your examples correctly?

Transports absolutely get hammered if travelling alone I've noticed.

Yes playing against AI, that's why tranports (carrying planes in crates) were travelling alone and were obliterated

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RE: naval air strike too easy? - 12/5/2019 6:42:44 PM

MrBlizzard

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Alvaro Sousa

Land based air is unbelievably destructive to any fleet. That Italian air unit is 300 planes at full strength. They Americans had what 150-200 at Midway and they effectively sank 2 WarPlan carrier groups.

I didn't figure that there were 300 hundred planes, now the result is clear

At Midway the land based planes didn't hit anything, the KB was sunk by CV planes

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RE: naval air strike too easy? - 12/5/2019 6:49:40 PM

AlbertN

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Airplanes should be lethal to ships - no question asked - when they've initiative.

There are scarce cases of ships 'winning' over planes and usually that's faulty of the CV in question (Example, the HMS Glorious, a CV sank by BCs) - whereas even a single bomber can sink a BB, in the example of the Italian BB Roma. Sure it was a radio-guided bomb, but it was sent right down the chimney pot.
There are lots of example of LBA squadrons hammering convoys, their escorts, and battle squadrons.

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RE: naval air strike too easy? - 12/5/2019 7:00:22 PM

AlvaroSousa

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The A.I. should be grabbing escorts when it can

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- Assault on Communism SC2
- Assault on Democracy SC2
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RE: naval air strike too easy? - 12/5/2019 7:25:05 PM

Essro

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Alvaro Sousa

The A.I. should be grabbing escorts when it can

AI really ought to send those transports through Red Sea.

I'm guessing it's going for shortest distance?

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RE: naval air strike too easy? - 12/5/2019 7:53:21 PM

ThunderLizard11

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Nice screen shots OP. Naval torpedo bombers, like the Fairey Swordfish, were very effective (especially for a bi-plane that looks to be straight out of WW1). However, the Sparviero (sparrowhawk) Italian torpedo bomber only sank a few British war ships, like a destroyer, and damaged several cruiser so the amount of ships sunk in game seems unrealistic. Maybe the issue is AI not protecting its transports with air cover.

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RE: naval air strike too easy? - 12/5/2019 8:05:24 PM

scout1

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Alvaro Sousa

Land based air is unbelievably destructive to any fleet. That Italian air unit is 300 planes at full strength. They Americans had what 150-200 at Midway and they effectively sank 2 WarPlan carrier groups.

I could be wrong �.. but ��

Midway didn't have anywhere near that number of land based aircraft and none of the land based aircraft did any damage to the flat tops �..

but yes, land based aircraft were considered a premium threat to flattops �.

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RE: naval air strike too easy? - 12/5/2019 8:12:53 PM

Michael T

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Level bombers were pretty useless v ships. Torpedo bombers or dive bombers, whether land based or carrier based were the threats.

< Message edited by Michael T -- 12/5/2019 8:13:30 PM >

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RE: naval air strike too easy? - 12/6/2019 3:59:07 AM

sol_invictus

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Michael T

Level bombers were pretty useless v ships. Torpedo bombers or dive bombers, whether land based or carrier based were the threats.

Agree. A good example; if memory serves; was the sinking of the Prince of Wales and the Repulse. The level bombers didn't cause a problem but the torpedo planes sank them.

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RE: naval air strike too easy? - 12/6/2019 11:41:04 AM

MrBlizzard

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What do you think about this?
Interceptors from 1� Jagdkorps bombed and sunk BB Marat, 7 points of strenght lost in this attack by soviet BBs

Ok ground attack planes like stuka, ok level planes like torpedo SM-79 but even interceptors can easily sink a BB?

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RE: naval air strike too easy? - 12/6/2019 1:22:06 PM

AlvaroSousa

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Air units are a mix of units. You probably got lucky in the rolls. In fact you got mega lucky because it is hard to sink a unit in port.

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- WarPlan Pacific

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- Assault on Communism SC2
- Assault on Democracy SC2
- Map Image Importer SC3

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RE: naval air strike too easy? - 12/6/2019 1:55:32 PM

MrBlizzard

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I'm a lucky man

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RE: naval air strike too easy? - 12/6/2019 6:24:58 PM

Essro

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MrBlizzard

What do you think about this?
Interceptors from 1� Jagdkorps bombed and sunk BB Marat, 7 points of strenght lost in this attack by soviet BBs

Ok ground attack planes like stuka, ok level planes like torpedo SM-79 but even interceptors can easily sink a BB?

Okay, even I'm going to call out this one lol.

Yes, you got very lucky. Interceptors--regardless of tech level--only have ONE naval air factor. Maybe even that's too much lol.

But for those who want an explanation...here is a photo of a FW-190 carrying a freakin torpedo...I googled "FW-190 dive bomber" and got results and still can't stop laughing. It was a prototype but nonetheless.....

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RE: naval air strike too easy? - 12/6/2019 6:38:51 PM

MrBlizzard

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Nice bird indeed, never seen before

yes I suspect too that 1 of naval air (1 on 10 scale?) is probably too much for interceptors; 'cause if you have 20/20 air squadrons you can do two hits as average.
The naval flak seems really too low, in 20 attacks I lost some 4 air strenght points;
the coordination of land based planes was very difficult against ships in ww2; a nice model would be if every single air squadron comes alone against the ship and takes is amount of flak.

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