[WAD] Fighter sensor switching ON/OFF/ON/.. endlessly

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[WAD] Fighter sensor switching ON/OFF/ON/.. endlessly

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[WAD] Fighter sensor switching ON/OFF/ON/.. endlessly - 12/9/2019 5:39:35 AM

davidoux

Posts: 60
Joined: 11/28/2014
Status: offline

I have a tomcat switching ON/OFF sensors every few second, is there anything that can explain that ? Moreover, the sensor dialog does not update correctly unless I close / open it . here are some screenshots that highlight this issue + attached save file.

please check tomcat#3

screenshots :
screenshot of issue tomcat3

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Dimitris -- 12/12/2019 9:41:58 AM >

Post #: 1

RE: Fighter sensor switching ON/OFF/ON/.. endlessly - 12/9/2019 8:03:38 AM

guanotwozero

Posts: 651
Joined: 12/27/2013
Status: offline

OK, you have the plane flying AAW mission "PatrolA". The mission EMCON specifies no emissions outside the mission area.

The mission has no defined area - no ref points - therefore it can never be within the area.

So no emissions other than possibly going offensive (e.g. initial launch guidance for the Phoenix). In the save, the Phoenix is already flying blind as there's no guidance.

To fix it, I suggest defining the patrol area with ref points.

(in reply to davidoux)

Post #: 2

RE: Fighter sensor switching ON/OFF/ON/.. endlessly - 12/9/2019 10:11:20 AM

davidoux

Posts: 60
Joined: 11/28/2014
Status: offline

The patrol area is empty but the mission editor should not allow that, should it ? at least validate area should return an erro (it doesn't),

(in reply to guanotwozero)

Post #: 3

RE: Fighter sensor switching ON/OFF/ON/.. endlessly - 12/9/2019 10:49:08 AM

guanotwozero

Posts: 651
Joined: 12/27/2013
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: davidoux

The patrol area is empty but the mission editor should not allow that, should it ? at least validate area should return an erro (it doesn't),

It's perfectly allowed to have a mission without an area - just don't expect assigned aircraft to do anything that depends on having an area. AFAIK Validate Area simply checks for boundary lines crossing over. A null area is still valid.

Bear in mind you have checked "Active emissions only inside patrol/prosecution area" - so you won't get such emissions if you have no area. I don't know why radar switches on sometimes - I can only guess that it's part of going offensive to launch the missiles.

(in reply to davidoux)

Post #: 4

RE: Fighter sensor switching ON/OFF/ON/.. endlessly - 12/9/2019 11:03:57 AM

davidoux

Posts: 60
Joined: 11/28/2014
Status: offline

I understand empty area is allowed but that does not explain the switch ON/OFF which is revealing of a bug IMHO

(in reply to guanotwozero)

Post #: 5

RE: Fighter sensor switching ON/OFF/ON/.. endlessly - 12/9/2019 11:14:47 AM

guanotwozero

Posts: 651
Joined: 12/27/2013
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I'm only seeing the radar turning on when it launches a Phoenix missile, which is SARH - it cannot launch without the Tomcat using its radar to get a lock. However the missile will then go blind when the Tomcat turns off its radar. I'm not sure that's a bug, as it may be legitimate to launch a missile and hope terminal guidance will pick up the target.

Edit:
Reading the blurb for the Phoenix, it can operate with periodic mid-course updates from the launching Tomcat - I guess the brief radar switch-ons are to locate the target again and do just that. So it looks like WAD.

< Message edited by guanotwozero -- 12/9/2019 11:37:08 AM >

(in reply to davidoux)

Post #: 6

RE: Fighter sensor switching ON/OFF/ON/.. endlessly - 12/9/2019 11:44:31 AM

Dimitris

Posts: 13282
Joined: 7/31/2005
Status: offline

Just had a look at this.

I think the problem stems from two factors:

1) On the patrol mission, you have the "Active emissions only inside patrol/prosecution area" option activated.

2) The patrol area has no reference points at all!!!

Therefore, the plane never considers itself to be within its patrol area, and thus activates its radar only to fire the missiles, and then shuts it off immediately again.

If you disable the "Active emissions..." option, the aircraft keeps the radar active. Also, if you define an area (either circle or rectangle) and add its reference points to the mission, the aircraft will keep the radar active while it's inside the area.

< Message edited by Dimitris -- 12/9/2019 11:45:58 AM >

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(in reply to guanotwozero)

Post #: 7

RE: Fighter sensor switching ON/OFF/ON/.. endlessly - 12/9/2019 12:00:37 PM

davidoux

Posts: 60
Joined: 11/28/2014
Status: offline

"Therefore, the plane never considers itself to be within its patrol area, and thus activates its radar only to fire the missiles, and then shuts it off immediately again."

Hello Dimitris, there is no missile ever fired and each state last a couple of seconds at most;
From my point of view, this behaviour makes no sense at all ...
Now I understand that creating a valid area would "fix" this issue but that's really feels like sweeping the dirt under the rug

(maybe there is more to uncover by digging this strange behaviour ...)

Also, don't you think that a patrol mission should enforce a non empty patrol area ?

(in reply to Dimitris)

Post #: 8

RE: Fighter sensor switching ON/OFF/ON/.. endlessly - 12/9/2019 12:08:32 PM

guanotwozero

Posts: 651
Joined: 12/27/2013
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: davidoux
...
Hello Dimitris, there is no missile ever fired and each state last a couple of seconds at most;
From my point of view, this behaviour makes no sense at all ...
Now I understand that creating a valid area would "fix" this issue but that's really feels like sweeping the dirt under the rug
(maybe there is more to uncover by digging this strange behaviour ...)

Also, don't you think that a patrol mission should enforce a non empty patrol area ?

The save I loaded already has a Phoenix in the air and shortly more are launched. Radar switch-ons are at launch and periodically while missiles are still in flight. This seems entirely consistent with Phoenix guidance.

I don't want a patrol mission to require an area - I may want to rely only on investigation anywhere within range. Sure, I may use areas most of the time, but I can also see cases where I'd not want it.

Edit:
I've circled a Phoenix in one of your images:

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by guanotwozero -- 12/9/2019 12:17:47 PM >

(in reply to davidoux)

Post #: 9

RE: Fighter sensor switching ON/OFF/ON/.. endlessly - 12/9/2019 12:24:25 PM

davidoux

Posts: 60
Joined: 11/28/2014
Status: offline

Hello guanotwozero (and Dimitris) you were right, i did not pay attention to the phoenix fired and it seems indeed consistent with phoenix guidance

"2) The patrol area has no reference points at all!!!
Therefore, the plane never considers itself to be within its patrol area, and thus activates its radar only to fire the missiles, and then shuts it off immediately again."

perfectly clear now, thanks a lot and sorry for bothering you :)

(in reply to guanotwozero)

Post #: 10

RE: Fighter sensor switching ON/OFF/ON/.. endlessly - 12/9/2019 12:30:48 PM

guanotwozero

Posts: 651
Joined: 12/27/2013
Status: offline

Not at all, one of the fascinations with this game is that it has an endless learning curve!

(in reply to davidoux)

Post #: 11

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