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IJFB - 12/10/2019 1:15:38 AM   
Hanzberger


Posts: 921
Joined: 4/26/2006
From: SE Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		So what's the thought on DD conversion to APD. I was thinking of converting a few, but is it worth it?

_____________________________

Planning for #17 Ironman Tier2

Japan AC wire chart here
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2769286&mpage=1&key=?
Post #: 1
RE: IJFB - 12/10/2019 6:01:07 AM   
BBfanboy


Posts: 18046
Joined: 8/4/2010
From: Winnipeg, MB
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Hanzberger

So what's the thought on DD conversion to APD. I was thinking of converting a few, but is it worth it?

Depends on where you intend to fight your battles.

Firstly, converting at game start removes precious DDs for a few weeks when you really need escorts. When they come out as APDs they are good ASW vessels but gun power is weaker. Not sure about AA.

If you plan to fight your war among the myriad of small islands and atolls, APDs are very handy for moving small units around to clean up all those enemy islands that you do not intend to garrison but you really don't want the enemy to be able to use (e.g. putting an AVP and patrol planes there).

When you have a horde of them, you can front-load the fighting troops for a landing on the APDs before using bigger transports to bring the unit equipment and support troops. The fighting troops will land very quickly and usually with minimal disruption. You do need to have separate supply-only ships to land supply with the fighting troops.

When you have troops spread out over a bunch of APDs, enemy subs and aircraft are not going to kill the unit with an attack or two, and APDs can usually escape from SCTFs with minimal losses if the commander has high naval skill.

_____________________________

No matter how bad a situation is, you can always make it worse. - Chris Hadfield : An Astronaut's Guide To Life On Earth

(in reply to Hanzberger)
Post #: 2
RE: IJFB - 12/10/2019 12:13:37 PM   
PaxMondo


Posts: 9750
Joined: 6/6/2008
Status: offline 		I rarely consider converting any DD's as there are NEVER enough DD's for the IJ. And that's before losses which will really stack up if you are aggressive at all with your navy (and I tend to be).

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Pax

(in reply to BBfanboy)
Post #: 3
RE: IJFB - 12/10/2019 5:30:56 PM   
rustysi


Posts: 7472
Joined: 2/21/2012
From: LI, NY
Status: offline 		In one of my games I did so on a large scale. Wasn't worth the effort.

As Pax says there are never enough DD's for Japan, especially early in the game. Add to that for the first months lots of 'em will be in the yards for upgrades and you have a 'situation'.

_____________________________

It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once. Hume

In every party there is one member who by his all-too-devout pronouncement of the party principles provokes the others to apostasy. Nietzsche

Cave ab homine unius libri. Ltn Prvb

(in reply to PaxMondo)
Post #: 4
RE: IJFB - 12/10/2019 6:02:04 PM   
Chickenboy


Posts: 24520
Joined: 6/29/2002
From: San Antonio, TX
Status: offline 		Hi Hanzberger,

Like the others, I likes my DDs doing DD things-so I don't convert large numbers of them.

EXCEPT for some that can convert in 8/42 to APDs with radar. I'm experimenting on pairing these with CVE groups to determine if they provide additional CAP scramble time for the air groups. Full disclosure: I don't know if this will work or not, but it seems worth a shot for a handful of them.

_____________________________


(in reply to rustysi)
Post #: 5
RE: IJFB - 12/10/2019 6:20:32 PM   
Kull


Posts: 2625
Joined: 7/3/2007
From: El Paso, TX
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

Hi Hanzberger,

Like the others, I likes my DDs doing DD things-so I don't convert large numbers of them.

EXCEPT for some that can convert in 8/42 to APDs with radar. I'm experimenting on pairing these with CVE groups to determine if they provide additional CAP scramble time for the air groups. Full disclosure: I don't know if this will work or not, but it seems worth a shot for a handful of them.


PaxMondo made a comment elsewhere which suggested that it won't work, because the device availability date is March 1943. If so, smart move by the devs, but I'm kinda bummed!

_____________________________

AE-Japan Setup

AE-Allied Setup

Japan Air-Engine Plan

(in reply to Chickenboy)
Post #: 6
RE: IJFB - 12/11/2019 2:11:26 AM   
PaxMondo


Posts: 9750
Joined: 6/6/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kull


quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

Hi Hanzberger,

Like the others, I likes my DDs doing DD things-so I don't convert large numbers of them.

EXCEPT for some that can convert in 8/42 to APDs with radar. I'm experimenting on pairing these with CVE groups to determine if they provide additional CAP scramble time for the air groups. Full disclosure: I don't know if this will work or not, but it seems worth a shot for a handful of them.


PaxMondo made a comment elsewhere which suggested that it won't work, because the device availability date is March 1943. If so, smart move by the devs, but I'm kinda bummed!

Correct. Device dates do work, so you can create TOE or Aircraft that has a future device as part of it. The device itself doesn't "come on" until the date is reached. It saves a lot of slots in the database.

_____________________________

Pax

(in reply to Kull)
Post #: 7
RE: IJFB - 12/11/2019 9:34:51 AM   
Hanzberger


Posts: 921
Joined: 4/26/2006
From: SE Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		Ok thanks everyone, interesting thought with the radar please let us know~!

_____________________________

Planning for #17 Ironman Tier2

Japan AC wire chart here
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2769286&mpage=1&key=?

(in reply to PaxMondo)
Post #: 8
RE: IJFB - 12/11/2019 12:27:12 PM   
Barb


Posts: 2503
Joined: 2/27/2007
From: Bratislava, Slovakia
Status: offline 		I had one class of DDs updated to APDs, the other not (IIRC, Minekaze & Kamikaze?).
I still had some Kamikaze class DDs around doing some useful escort role, but I had already lost most of my APDs - so I would love to have the 9 Kamikaze-class APDs even in mid-1944 for the evacuation purposes. The purpose built APDs (T-1 class) are bit slow and just coming online.

_____________________________


(in reply to Hanzberger)
Post #: 9
RE: IJFB - 12/11/2019 2:14:57 PM   
Chickenboy


Posts: 24520
Joined: 6/29/2002
From: San Antonio, TX
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo


quote:

ORIGINAL: Kull


quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

Hi Hanzberger,

Like the others, I likes my DDs doing DD things-so I don't convert large numbers of them.

EXCEPT for some that can convert in 8/42 to APDs with radar. I'm experimenting on pairing these with CVE groups to determine if they provide additional CAP scramble time for the air groups. Full disclosure: I don't know if this will work or not, but it seems worth a shot for a handful of them.


PaxMondo made a comment elsewhere which suggested that it won't work, because the device availability date is March 1943. If so, smart move by the devs, but I'm kinda bummed!

Correct. Device dates do work, so you can create TOE or Aircraft that has a future device as part of it. The device itself doesn't "come on" until the date is reached. It saves a lot of slots in the database.


Saw this earlier-of course *after* I started the upgrades.

Is the database for device availability for Sc. 2 the same as what you cite above, Pax?

No matter. I've been putting my APDs to good use with tactical front-line reinforcement and withdrawals. It won't kill me to have a handful more of them.

_____________________________


(in reply to PaxMondo)
Post #: 10
RE: IJFB - 12/11/2019 8:56:57 PM   
PaxMondo


Posts: 9750
Joined: 6/6/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy


quote:

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo


quote:

ORIGINAL: Kull


quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

Hi Hanzberger,

Like the others, I likes my DDs doing DD things-so I don't convert large numbers of them.

EXCEPT for some that can convert in 8/42 to APDs with radar. I'm experimenting on pairing these with CVE groups to determine if they provide additional CAP scramble time for the air groups. Full disclosure: I don't know if this will work or not, but it seems worth a shot for a handful of them.


PaxMondo made a comment elsewhere which suggested that it won't work, because the device availability date is March 1943. If so, smart move by the devs, but I'm kinda bummed!

Correct. Device dates do work, so you can create TOE or Aircraft that has a future device as part of it. The device itself doesn't "come on" until the date is reached. It saves a lot of slots in the database.


Saw this earlier-of course *after* I started the upgrades.

Is the database for device availability for Sc. 2 the same as what you cite above, Pax?

No matter. I've been putting my APDs to good use with tactical front-line reinforcement and withdrawals. It won't kill me to have a handful more of them.

CB: Honestly not sure, you will have to open up AEeditor and check. Sorry. (I bet it is as the devs made very few device changes between scen 1 and 2.)

_____________________________

Pax

(in reply to Chickenboy)
Post #: 11
RE: IJFB - 12/12/2019 2:27:38 AM   
Kull


Posts: 2625
Joined: 7/3/2007
From: El Paso, TX
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

Is the database for device availability for Sc. 2 the same as what you cite above, Pax?



Yep, it's the same.

_____________________________

AE-Japan Setup

AE-Allied Setup

Japan Air-Engine Plan

(in reply to Chickenboy)
Post #: 12
RE: IJFB - 12/13/2019 1:27:36 PM   
LargeSlowTarget


Posts: 4443
Joined: 9/23/2000
From: Hessen, Germany - now living in France
Status: offline 		Note that some DD class converts to APDs with a top speed of a mere 18 knots, which makes them much less useful in that role. I keep them as DDs. Other classes convert to 29 knot APDs and I usually convert a division or two (4 - 8 ships) of those to run supplies to front bases under enemy air threat.

_____________________________

AE Mod "Bottlenecks" UPDATED 01/2022

(in reply to Kull)
Post #: 13
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