Slitherine

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ORIGINAL: npsergio

Remember the Ardennes... That "impassable obstacle" that was lightly defended during the WWII.
Probably it is not the best terrain for armored combat, but if tanks can drive through a forest, they probably will do it if there is an operational advantage...

Just guesing here, but based on history.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hub6Actual

I did some testing to see what happens when the offRoadMobility setting is changed in the unit database. The test subject was a troop of Centurion Mk 12's Advancing, Tight-Spacing in Free Formation, back and forth in approx. 1 km legs through a mix of Coniferous and Mixed Tree tiles, both whose vehicle mobility was listed as 20. SOP was Shortest. Relief was 25, the ground was not quite flat, but very close, no other terrain features involved. Conditions were Day, Warm, Good ground, Good viz. Each run-through lasted for one hour (60:00) over the same identical patch of ground:

ORM set to 85 (original setting) - 1 tank immob at 33:10
ORM set to 43 - 1 tank immob at 12:25
ORM set to 22 - 1 tank immob at 48:08
ORM set to 11 - 3 tanks immob at 08:20, 33:05, 42:55
ORM set to 0 - 4 tanks immob at 00:40, 00:41, 00:41, 00:44

Speed through this terrain at Advance was 3 kph. I have to check other non-road terrain to see what relevance this has, if any.

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Forests with trees 20 to 25 centimeters (8 to 10 inches) in diameter are tank obstacles, and 5-centimeter (2-inch) stands will stop most wheeled vehicles. Fully dependable criteria pertaining to the size of trees, and the significance of species and root systems, have not been determined. Medium tanks, for example, have pushed over single trees as much as 30 centimeters (12 inches) in diameter.

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if several trees are pushed over, some will interlock with other trees to form a better obstacle to movement. The protruding root system and trunks of overturned trees are obstacles to vehicles. The critical average distance between trees in forests where the trees are too big to be pushed over is about 3 to 5 meters (10 to 16.5 feet), depending upon whether the trees are regularly or irregularly planted. Although this distance may be wide enough for the vehicle to pass through, in most cases there is no room for turning.

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I never deploy the main force on the front side of Forest edges using it for cover, but deploy at the rear especially infantry, this then stops the armour etc engaging at maximum ranges and with a good organised defence it just turns into a shooting gallery as you engage tgts from the side and rear as they emerge.

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ORIGINAL: echo9c

When I was serving in West Germany, in the 80's the German forests were kept very clean with little or no undergrowth. That being said we believed they were an obstacle to tanks and accordingly, we would tie our obstacles into the woods. Then we saw a film made by, if I remember correctly the German Army but it may have been US, a lot of water has gone under the bridge since then. The tanks pushed through the woods even up hill, not fast but they were able to do it without much difficulty. The only way they were able to stop the tanks was to wrap steel wire rope through the woods from tree to tree. I don't remember the diameter of the trees in the woods but they looked like a typical forest found all over the part of Germany I trained in, which was mostly in Bavaria.

quote:

ORIGINAL: edb1815

quote:

ORIGINAL: echo9c

When I was serving in West Germany, in the 80's the German forests were kept very clean with little or no undergrowth. That being said we believed they were an obstacle to tanks and accordingly, we would tie our obstacles into the woods. Then we saw a film made by, if I remember correctly the German Army but it may have been US, a lot of water has gone under the bridge since then. The tanks pushed through the woods even up hill, not fast but they were able to do it without much difficulty. The only way they were able to stop the tanks was to wrap steel wire rope through the woods from tree to tree. I don't remember the diameter of the trees in the woods but they looked like a typical forest found all over the part of Germany I trained in, which was mostly in Bavaria.

This thread brings back memories. Where were you stationed? Ever get to Wildflecken?

Someone brought up a good point about ground conditions. German forests are well cleared and kept, but still present an obstacle to movement. Have any bad weather or soft ground the situation gets worse. Tracked vehicle will chew up dirt and mud tracks very quickly. I will tell you from personal experience that it is not a quick or easy task to fix a thrown track on a tank that has slid into a muddy ditch in the woods! One point to consider is that tank commanders often did recon on foot before moving their tanks into position or along a route. Not sure how or if this is factored into AB.