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A little disappointed. - 12/13/2019 3:53:26 AM   
goodwoodrw


Posts: 2661
Joined: 2/14/2005
Status: offline 		I am a retiree now and I have become sensitive in how I spend my money. I put off the purchase this game for a couple of weeks after reading a number reviews and comments, after seeing a major patch was prepared by the developer, it was assumed by many it would released late last week or as the days went on sometime this week. As I saw it the reason I hadn't purchased the game earlier was of some issues with the game that will be addressed in the coming 1.04 patch.
I have been a Matrix purchaser and fan for a very long time now and they get things right most of the time, however this occasion they have wandered off the track a bit. Yes it is the silly season, yes there has been a few new releases and yes there has been other games that have needed patches, but I feel Matrix has left the developer dangling a little bit, all week he said he has done his bit, but the patch hasn't arrived. There may be some communication issues here between him and Matrix and either or both may be at fault. From a customers prospective it looks bad. What magnifies the issue is no one from Matrix got on this forum to address the issue and as busy as everyone may be there CMO has had 3 beta patches this week, but I'm not comparing. Even tomorrow I may not even bitch, but today I felt I needed to. Thanks for listening (reading).

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Post #: 1
RE: A little disappointed. - 12/13/2019 4:05:04 AM   
budd


Posts: 2972
Joined: 7/4/2009
From: Tacoma
Status: offline 		Well, your not wrong. Seems like Matrix's part shouldn't take longer than the dev takes to put it together.

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I don't buy all the wargames I want, I just buy more than I need.

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Post #: 2
RE: A little disappointed. - 12/13/2019 4:42:09 AM   
Michael T


Posts: 4443
Joined: 10/22/2006
From: Queensland, Australia.
Status: offline 		Totally agree with your sentiments OP.

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Post #: 3
RE: A little disappointed. - 12/13/2019 6:08:03 AM   
PanzerMike


Posts: 888
Joined: 4/30/2006
Status: offline 		This is slightly dissappointing. Not Matrix finest hour. However, I am not worried. Alvaro is supporting this game very nicely and that is the most important of all. It is not his doing that Matrix is so slow to come out with this patch. He too will probably be a bit frustrated, just like we all are. Well back to modding it is for me then. Fingers crossed for a Friday release.

(in reply to Michael T)
Post #: 4
RE: A little disappointed. - 12/13/2019 8:20:18 AM   
demyansk


Posts: 2840
Joined: 2/20/2008
Status: offline 		I rather have a finished patch than being a rush job. Under promise over deliver. I don't want the auto mechanic to rush the job on my brakes, take an extra hour to fix them. Just my two cents but Matrix or anyone else when a deadline is announced, be fairly sure it will be done. Under promise- it works but over deliver. I do it all the time.

(in reply to PanzerMike)
Post #: 5
RE: A little disappointed. - 12/13/2019 8:35:34 AM   
newheart

 

Posts: 12
Joined: 2/13/2016
Status: offline 		I suspect this is a lower priority for Matrix than their higher profile releases. Shame, and I feel sorry for Alvaro. Come on Matrix...

(in reply to demyansk)
Post #: 6
RE: A little disappointed. - 12/13/2019 10:35:00 AM   
tigercub


Posts: 2004
Joined: 2/3/2003
From: brisbane oz
Status: offline 		3 campaigns waiting that need to be restarted! i feel like most here a little let down!

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Post #: 7
RE: A little disappointed. - 12/13/2019 1:05:23 PM   
MorningDew

 

Posts: 1170
Joined: 9/20/2006
From: Greenville, SC
Status: offline 		While I agree this has really taken too long, I will point out that Matrix did post about it:

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/fb.asp?m=4732215

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Post #: 8
RE: A little disappointed. - 12/13/2019 1:50:21 PM   
76mm


Posts: 4688
Joined: 5/2/2004
From: Washington, DC
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: goodwoodrw
I feel Matrix has left the developer dangling a little bit, all week he said he has done his bit, but the patch hasn't arrived. There may be some communication issues here between him and Matrix and either or both may be at fault. From a customers prospective it looks bad. What magnifies the issue is no one from Matrix got on this forum to address the issue...

I don't have this game, but I wanted to let you know that this is not only an issue with this game...there was the same issue with TOAW IV, until the patch magically appeared yesterday.

I'm not sure how hard it is for Matrix to prepare the patches, but I wish that they would improve the process, especially the communication part.

(in reply to goodwoodrw)
Post #: 9
RE: A little disappointed. - 12/13/2019 2:49:36 PM   
PanzerMike


Posts: 888
Joined: 4/30/2006
Status: offline 		I do hope it will come today (even tough Friday is rapidly coming to a close in my timezone). Meanwhile, I will use this thread to shamelessly plug the new version of my Unit mod. Available for download in the modding section of the forum. Check it out.

(in reply to 76mm)
Post #: 10
RE: A little disappointed. - 12/13/2019 2:58:58 PM   
newheart

 

Posts: 12
Joined: 2/13/2016
Status: offline 		Its a great mod Panzermike - will be all the sweeter with the new patch. Fingers crossed...

(in reply to PanzerMike)
Post #: 11
RE: A little disappointed. - 12/13/2019 5:03:22 PM   
AlvaroSousa


Posts: 9927
Joined: 7/29/2013
Status: offline 		At this point I suspect it will be Monday. But hey I get to fix more stuff.

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Creator Kraken Studios
- WarPlan
- WarPlan Pacific

Designer Strategic Command
- Brute Force (mod) SC2
- Assault on Communism SC2
- Assault on Democracy SC2
- Map Image Importer SC3

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Post #: 12
RE: A little disappointed. - 12/13/2019 5:58:54 PM   
Michael T


Posts: 4443
Joined: 10/22/2006
From: Queensland, Australia.
Status: offline 		Alvaro, could it be the case that every time you add in more fixes (and therefore upload a new file), that matrix have to begin the QA process again?

I mean there has to be more to this than we can see.



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Post #: 13
RE: A little disappointed. - 12/13/2019 6:01:10 PM   
Michael T


Posts: 4443
Joined: 10/22/2006
From: Queensland, Australia.
Status: offline 		So perhaps stop uploading new files until 1.04 comes out, work on 1.05.

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Post #: 14
RE: A little disappointed. - 12/13/2019 7:09:43 PM   
PanzerMike


Posts: 888
Joined: 4/30/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Alvaro Sousa

At this point I suspect it will be Monday. But hey I get to fix more stuff.

So the bug stomp continues. That at least is the silver lining. Are you still updating the v4 list of fixed bugs in the thread?

(in reply to AlvaroSousa)
Post #: 15
RE: A little disappointed. - 12/13/2019 8:05:38 PM   
AlvaroSousa


Posts: 9927
Joined: 7/29/2013
Status: offline 		It is not the case. They are literally backed up. It is the holidays.

Very likely one of their big money projects or a new game had an enormous problem and they had to work on that above all other working games. If you put out a game initially and there is something seriously flawed it can drastically impact sales as people start talking.

Most of the money games make are in the first month. So from a business standpoint I understand where they are coming from.

Could also be someone quit all of a sudden that was important and they literally didn't have enough people.

I can tell you as a game publisher they have treated me really well and took a chance on a no name risky game model. If anyone publishes wargames I will always suggest going through Matrix/Slitherine.

Trying to market, code, test, support yourself it very hard and time consuming. You need to know everything.

_____________________________

Creator Kraken Studios
- WarPlan
- WarPlan Pacific

Designer Strategic Command
- Brute Force (mod) SC2
- Assault on Communism SC2
- Assault on Democracy SC2
- Map Image Importer SC3

(in reply to PanzerMike)
Post #: 16
RE: A little disappointed. - 12/13/2019 9:42:31 PM   
tyronec


Posts: 4940
Joined: 8/7/2015
From: Portaferry, N. Ireland
Status: offline
quote:

At this point I suspect it will be Monday. But hey I get to fix more stuff.

Alvaro can you not sort this out with Matrix and find out what needs to happen to get the patch uploaded.

I have been waiting to start a new game for well over a week now, waiting for the patch that you/Matrix said would be out at the beginning of this week. It is bad enough that it takes so long, worse that a time line is given and not held to.

'If you put out a game initially and there is something seriously flawed it can drastically impact sales as people start talking' - this is exactly the position that Warplan is in now, it does have things that need fixed and the fixing is just not happening in a timely manner.

(in reply to AlvaroSousa)
Post #: 17
RE: A little disappointed. - 12/13/2019 10:35:02 PM   
hansondavid4

 

Posts: 44
Joined: 11/10/2019
Status: offline 		I think people have to be a little more patient. I am as anxious as everyone. We have a very active developer in AV and probable receive more inside information than would be typical. I for one prefer a patch to have some quality control exercised. If that takes time, be it directly or as part of a queue waiting to be acted upon, I for one am willing to wait. My biggest complaint with the current state of affairs with the game is the research (way to accelerated which creates some real issues for lower resource positions). It was broken in the previous patch and would have been best to have discovered before that release. If something like that gets avoided by waiting, it would be an improvement.

I am happy to have an active dev on the site. I am hoping that we do not create an atmosphere wear Matrix gags him.


(in reply to tyronec)
Post #: 18
RE: A little disappointed. - 12/13/2019 10:46:15 PM   
AlvaroSousa


Posts: 9927
Joined: 7/29/2013
Status: offline 		I have done everything I can.

It is not about putting out a game in a rush that is flawed. Every game has problems. There are so many things that can go wrong because you can't see every possible thing that may happen. If you want to make PacMan then there are almost no bugs.

But a complex game like this with lots of human interfaces yea there will be problems.

Personally it's fine for me if the game gets better over time. If there isn't a super boost of sales as long as the long term quality gets people to buy it

_____________________________

Creator Kraken Studios
- WarPlan
- WarPlan Pacific

Designer Strategic Command
- Brute Force (mod) SC2
- Assault on Communism SC2
- Assault on Democracy SC2
- Map Image Importer SC3

(in reply to tyronec)
Post #: 19
RE: A little disappointed. - 12/14/2019 7:12:57 AM   
sdplate

 

Posts: 5
Joined: 12/1/2019
Status: offline 		Dear Matrix Team,

I’m really angry about the missing patch. I appreciate that quality goes before speed, but Alvaro send his files on the 2nd of December. Now, after 10 working days, the patch is still missing. I can’t understand why it is not possible to do the QA and upload the patch to your server, within this timeframe. As a paying customer my expectation is clearly, that has to be done in a shorter period.

I know you have to keep many games up to date and you had several new releases. And yes, it is always a question of resources and manpower. Nevertheless, I feel 10 working days are far too long.

I would appreciate some kind of explanation to get a better understanding for your problems.

Regards

(in reply to AlvaroSousa)
Post #: 20
RE: A little disappointed. - 12/14/2019 8:54:47 AM   
tyronec


Posts: 4940
Joined: 8/7/2015
From: Portaferry, N. Ireland
Status: offline
quote:

I have done everything I can.

It is not about putting out a game in a rush that is flawed. Every game has problems. There are so many things that can go wrong because you can't see every possible thing that may happen. If you want to make PacMan then there are almost no bugs.

But a complex game like this with lots of human interfaces yea there will be problems.

Personally it's fine for me if the game gets better over time. If there isn't a super boost of sales as long as the long term quality gets people to buy it

So I cannot understand what is happening that it takes 10+ days to put out a patch that you have already tested.
If they are testing it then presumably it is coming back to you to fix any issues they have found, but from reading the Forum it doesn't seem that that is what is happening.
If they are not testing it then surely it is just an administrative job to load up the new version, with whatever stamp they put on it.

Are they doing any testing ?

(in reply to sdplate)
Post #: 21
RE: A little disappointed. - 12/14/2019 9:33:27 AM   
jzardos


Posts: 662
Joined: 3/15/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: sdplate

Dear Matrix Team,

I’m really angry about the missing patch. I appreciate that quality goes before speed, but Alvaro send his files on the 2nd of December. Now, after 10 working days, the patch is still missing. I can’t understand why it is not possible to do the QA and upload the patch to your server, within this timeframe. As a paying customer my expectation is clearly, that has to be done in a shorter period.

I know you have to keep many games up to date and you had several new releases. And yes, it is always a question of resources and manpower. Nevertheless, I feel 10 working days are far too long.

I would appreciate some kind of explanation to get a better understanding for your problems.

Regards



They already have your money and no matter what they might say next, if anything, time has already spoken for them. I remember a time when Matrix did seem to care about customer support and I'm not talking about people having password issues. I think the issues all started when they merged with Slithern. I work with product/dev teams and we release and test stuff daily. Now that would assume Matrix has a good process and the right staff in place to even possibly have accomplished this patch push in 3-4 days. The fact it's been 10 days any not a peep leads me to believe Matrix has deep personal/process issues or they simple have bigger fish to fry and the little fish products don't matter. My answer to that nonsense is my money is as good as the big fish product buyers. This episode will further taint my ability to buy anything from Matrix. This causes me great distress because I want to support these type of products and people like Alvaro with my $$ support, but pains me to see Matrix taking their cut and for what?


< Message edited by jzardos -- 12/14/2019 9:37:04 AM >

(in reply to sdplate)
Post #: 22
RE: A little disappointed. - 12/14/2019 10:43:24 AM   
Barthheart


Posts: 3194
Joined: 7/20/2004
From: Nepean, Ontario
Status: offline 		Wow... just wow. The sense of entitlement in the this thread are truly amazing. ”10 days and my game hasn’t been patched. You suck.”
It’s a game. Your life is not in danger nor impacted in anyway really. You probably have dozens of other game to play while you wait.

Matrix has hundreds of games they deal with, probably dozens that are being updated or worked on at the same time. And they really are not that large a company manpower wise. I’m guessing less than 20 total working in all aspects of the company. They don’t have 100’s, and probably not even 10’s, of people doing QA and prep for patches.

Stuff takes time.

Yeesh.


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Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty & well preserved body,
but rather to skid in broadside, totally worn out & proclaiming "WOW, what a ride!"

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Post #: 23
RE: A little disappointed. - 12/14/2019 12:03:42 PM   
goodwoodrw


Posts: 2661
Joined: 2/14/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Barthheart

Wow... just wow. The sense of entitlement in the this thread are truly amazing. ”10 days and my game hasn’t been patched. You suck.”
It’s a game. Your life is not in danger nor impacted in anyway really. You probably have dozens of other game to play while you wait.

Matrix has hundreds of games they deal with, probably dozens that are being updated or worked on at the same time. And they really are not that large a company manpower wise. I’m guessing less than 20 total working in all aspects of the company. They don’t have 100’s, and probably not even 10’s, of people doing QA and prep for patches.

Stuff takes time.

Yeesh.


So I suck for expressing an opinion, tuff words, but your entitled to your opinion, less your rudeness of course. my original post mentions nothing about 10 days, read my post again and comprehend it in its correct context thank you.


< Message edited by goodwoodrw -- 12/14/2019 12:04:45 PM >

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Post #: 24
RE: A little disappointed. - 12/14/2019 12:59:45 PM   
newheart

 

Posts: 12
Joined: 2/13/2016
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Barthheart

Wow... just wow. The sense of entitlement in the this thread are truly amazing. ”10 days and my game hasn’t been patched. You suck.”
It’s a game. Your life is not in danger nor impacted in anyway really. You probably have dozens of other game to play while you wait.

Matrix has hundreds of games they deal with, probably dozens that are being updated or worked on at the same time. And they really are not that large a company manpower wise. I’m guessing less than 20 total working in all aspects of the company. They don’t have 100’s, and probably not even 10’s, of people doing QA and prep for patches.

Stuff takes time.

Yeesh.


Vance (aka Barthheart), as a new Matrix customer I have to say I found that rather offensive.

(in reply to Barthheart)
Post #: 25
RE: A little disappointed. - 12/14/2019 1:03:11 PM   
Franciscus


Posts: 809
Joined: 12/22/2010
From: Portugal
Status: offline 		My 2 cents of unrequested opinion...

Give Matrix some slack. I do not forget that it is because of Matrix that most of my favourite games are made, released and supported.
Time, human resources and commercial reasons are probably some of the causes of this "delay". Just this week, a major beta patch has been released for FOGE, a much waited patch for TOAW IV (more than 1 year ) has been released, and the first patch for SC3 WW1 also has been released

IMHO there is also the issue of unrealistic expectations. The dev is incredible in his enthusiasm and support, but maybe Alvaro should be more cautious in submitting deadlines for a patch release...As it does not depend only on him...been there, done that, BTW, and one of the ways to circumvent this issue is to release in the forum a beta patch (heck, a zip file is enough), as we did back with AJE, as Vic did with his DC games, etc.

Anyhow, WarPlan as it is, is immensely enjoyable, and IMHO, versus the AI, there are no major or game breaking bugs to be seen.

Best regards

< Message edited by Franciscus -- 12/14/2019 1:04:13 PM >

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Post #: 26
RE: A little disappointed. - 12/14/2019 1:34:17 PM   
Simulacra53


Posts: 632
Joined: 5/16/2015
Status: offline 		The entitlement is indeed strong in this thread.

Since WarPlan has been out there have been multiple patches.

What stands out is AV’s absolute dedication and extreme transparency,

Now if we start to complain because a. We know there is a patch b. Matrix has been unable to release, I know the easiest solution as a company.
Next time AV might be less inclined to keep us up to date...

Keep your cool.

You know good things are coming in the near future.
You know that AV will continue to improve this game and work on the Pacific war.
WP v1.03 is not the end of the world, neither were the versions before...play the game as is.

Maybe I have a luxury problem, but I have been saving WP, playing SC3 WW1 instead and today I mad a mini mod for a Panzer Campaigns title.
That’s besides real life (tm).





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Post #: 27
RE: A little disappointed. - 12/14/2019 1:40:17 PM   
Barthheart


Posts: 3194
Joined: 7/20/2004
From: Nepean, Ontario
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: newheart


quote:

ORIGINAL: Barthheart

Wow... just wow. The sense of entitlement in the this thread are truly amazing. ”10 days and my game hasn’t been patched. You suck.”
It’s a game. Your life is not in danger nor impacted in anyway really. You probably have dozens of other game to play while you wait.

Matrix has hundreds of games they deal with, probably dozens that are being updated or worked on at the same time. And they really are not that large a company manpower wise. I’m guessing less than 20 total working in all aspects of the company. They don’t have 100’s, and probably not even 10’s, of people doing QA and prep for patches.

Stuff takes time.

Yeesh.


Vance (aka Barthheart), as a new Matrix customer I have to say I found that rather offensive.


Well, as a customer, I too find most of this thread offensive. I don’t work here, just buy and play their games. I’ve enjoyed their continued support of existing games and their publishing of some of the best war games available.



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Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty & well preserved body,
but rather to skid in broadside, totally worn out & proclaiming "WOW, what a ride!"

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Post #: 28
RE: A little disappointed. - 12/14/2019 1:44:14 PM   
Barthheart


Posts: 3194
Joined: 7/20/2004
From: Nepean, Ontario
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: goodwoodrw

quote:

ORIGINAL: Barthheart

Wow... just wow. The sense of entitlement in the this thread are truly amazing. ”10 days and my game hasn’t been patched. You suck.”
It’s a game. Your life is not in danger nor impacted in anyway really. You probably have dozens of other game to play while you wait.

Matrix has hundreds of games they deal with, probably dozens that are being updated or worked on at the same time. And they really are not that large a company manpower wise. I’m guessing less than 20 total working in all aspects of the company. They don’t have 100’s, and probably not even 10’s, of people doing QA and prep for patches.

Stuff takes time.

Yeesh.


So I suck for expressing an opinion, tuff words, but your entitled to your opinion, less your rudeness of course. my original post mentions nothing about 10 days, read my post again and comprehend it in its correct context thank you.



Show me where I mentioned you or your post...? Really wasn’t aimed at you. Your post was the only one that wasn’t whiny.



_____________________________

Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty & well preserved body,
but rather to skid in broadside, totally worn out & proclaiming "WOW, what a ride!"

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Post #: 29
RE: A little disappointed. - 12/14/2019 7:41:59 PM   
abulbulian


Posts: 1047
Joined: 3/31/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Barthheart

Wow... just wow. The sense of entitlement in the this thread are truly amazing. ”10 days and my game hasn’t been patched. You suck.”
It’s a game. Your life is not in danger nor impacted in anyway really. You probably have dozens of other game to play while you wait.

Matrix has hundreds of games they deal with, probably dozens that are being updated or worked on at the same time. And they really are not that large a company manpower wise. I’m guessing less than 20 total working in all aspects of the company. They don’t have 100’s, and probably not even 10’s, of people doing QA and prep for patches.

Stuff takes time.

Yeesh.



So many things wrong with this comment. I'm distinguished with this individual, shame on you. The problem here is not any sense of entitlement, but rather the expectations given to the customer. IMO, these expectations have not been managed properly. I don't care if Matrix is supporting 1 million games, they need to understand all purchasers of these games are customers. Now it's up to how Matrix wants to handle relationships with those customers. I don't think there would have been an issue here if it was clear that the patch could take up to 2 weeks (or whatever), but it seemed to almost be promised each day and each day it didn't arrive. So naturally there will be disappointment. The fact that anybody wouldn't understand that concept makes me wonder what planet they live on or rather the lack of empathy they posses.

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Post #: 30
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