topeverest
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Joined: 10/17/2007
From: Houston, TX - USA
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Help me understand the thought process of expending large numbers of forces in defense of Moscow and Leningrad.
quote:
ORIGINAL: Beria
T012 Soviet
quote:
Soviet South Commander
Tula ... still has all of it's Industry... I just did a calculation of the effective Industry we have left: the doomed Industry of Moscow, Kalinin, Leningrad and Poltava adds up to 28 Armaments and 17 Heavy Industry that is beyond saving. That means our effective Industry is 259 Armaments and 172 Heavy Industry.
I take the post by Stelteck as a reference to how much Industry must be saved.
quote:
Stelteck
Armament points needs are vastly overestimated by everyone, except in late 1941 for a brief period, you will never have enough men to use your armament point production. I think you can probably drop to 200, something like that.
Supply point (heavy industry) is another matter. As you save a lots of troops ... you will need a lots of supply points...I did a game once with 180 HI saved and it was a little low. I had briefly a supply shortage end 1942. Fortunately the new HI production factor in 1943 solved it.
in other words, I feel we are losing to much H.Industry in order to supply our future Red army.
I propose we give immediate priority for Heavy Industry, any that are at risk to the enemy should be evacuated at once and be given priority for transport, even above reinforcements for the Central front.
as for Tula, I propose to move 6 divisions to protect the approaches to Tula, 2 tank Div. 2 Cav. Div. and 2 Inf. Div, there is minimal risk encountering a motorize division in this area, at least for turn 13.
if a German unit get's in contact with the city (regardless if it can storm the city or not) the Industry will cost double to evacuate. normal cost is 4800 * 25 = 120 000!!, considering that the Soviets, especial now with out Moscow and Leningrad get like what? 100K-120K rail points? the normal amount is already high, double that and boom, 240 000 points, if we wanted to save the Industry, we would waste all of our rail points just to save less then half.
that is why I stress that we protect the outskirts of Tula until we evacuated most of the armaments. if we want a competitive 1942, we should save as much as we can...
...in my humble opinion, if we could save at least 15 armaments, 15*4800 = 72000, I say it would be [ac]ceptable to abandon the city.
...in the Tula case, its more a battle of Movement points rather then fire power. the Germans at the closest point, will have to cross a large river, so by the time they came close to the forest, the infantry could only do Hasty attacks
I'm counting on every mobile division being at work around Moscow. this plan is only for this turn, the city can be abandon in the next turn.
...I believe this will protect the Industry for little cost. I will have to do something similar for Voronezh, let's see if the cities of Yaroslavl, Ivanovo and Rebinsk (near the Rebinsk res.) can be protected for 2 more turns.)
quote:
Soviet Centre Commander
I can delay the retreat, but then I will not be able to form the defensive line in time as ordered, at least the southern part of it... On second thought may I recommend giving that order after the Fascists have made their move? It doesn't look like their forces are very strong in the Tula region, perhaps they will make only light advances there.
quote:
Soviet Supreme Commander
10th Army commander, Golubev, was replaced with General-Major Galanin. He was in charge of the central defense of Moscow ... ( the blue ones ). And he had suffered to many defeats ( 37 ). At the same time, the support level of the 10th Army was augmented to 7 instead of 3, in order to help Galanin achieve his objective and protect the HQ. So you will be able to choose a few extra support units for the 10th Army HQ.
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Andy M
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