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Which JTS Panzer game should I buy first ?

 
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Which JTS Panzer game should I buy first ? - 12/31/2019 12:12:56 PM   
nukkxx5058


Posts: 2932
Joined: 2/3/2005
From: France
Status: offline 		Hi, after trying Napoleon Waterloo game I'm already in love with JTS games. Great system !

So I'd like to try a game from the JTS Panzer series. But no idea which one suits my needs best. I noticed that they come in 3 scales.

Campaign, battle, squad.

Generally speaking, I like the squad scale. But I'm totally opened to any scale even campaign.

The important points for me are:
- Eastern front
- Large battles (lots of units), large map (many hexes) but smaller scenarios welcome too.
- Last but not least,an easy to PBEM game, ie. easy to find opponents.

Suggestions anybody ?

Thank you :-)

< Message edited by nukkxx5058 -- 12/31/2019 12:14:21 PM >
Post #: 1
RE: Which JTS Panzer game should I buy first ? - 12/31/2019 12:41:16 PM   
Trugrit


Posts: 947
Joined: 7/14/2014
From: North Carolina
Status: offline
Have you tried Panzer Corp.

There is a sale on Steam.

All Slitherine Panzer Corp Bundle. (About 14 games, one low price)
https://store.steampowered.com/bundle/1580/Panzer_Corps_Gold/

The reviews are almost all positive.


(in reply to nukkxx5058)
Post #: 2
RE: Which JTS Panzer game should I buy first ? - 12/31/2019 12:56:29 PM   
lecrop


Posts: 412
Joined: 4/14/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: nukkxx5058
The important points for me are:
- Eastern front
- Large battles (lots of units), large map (many hexes) but smaller scenarios welcome too.
- Last but not least,an easy to PBEM game, ie. easy to find opponents.

Suggestions anybody ?

Thank you :-)

There are a lot of JTS Panzer Campaign Eastern Front titles, and it really depends on your interests.

For me one that I like most is Stalingrad '42 Gold



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RE: Which JTS Panzer game should I buy first ? - 12/31/2019 1:14:41 PM   
nukkxx5058


Posts: 2932
Joined: 2/3/2005
From: France
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Trugrit


Have you tried Panzer Corp.

There is a sale on Steam.

All Slitherine Panzer Corp Bundle. (About 14 games, one low price)
https://store.steampowered.com/bundle/1580/Panzer_Corps_Gold/

The reviews are almost all positive.




Hi, thanks. Yes I know the Panzer Corps series and I have them nearly all. And yes, it's a good/fun game but a bit too simplistic to my taste.

No, I was really talking about buying a title within the JTS Panzer series. Here >
http://www.johntillersoftware.com/

And I'm hesitating between many titles in the squad battles, panzer battles and panzer campaign categories... and even modern campaigns.

(in reply to Trugrit)
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RE: Which JTS Panzer game should I buy first ? - 12/31/2019 1:16:25 PM   
nukkxx5058


Posts: 2932
Joined: 2/3/2005
From: France
Status: offline 		@lecrop: Yes Stalingrad is one of my potential pick. Looks definitely good. How about PBEM ? easy to find opponents ?

But so many other titles are tempting ...

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RE: Which JTS Panzer game should I buy first ? - 12/31/2019 1:23:31 PM   
lecrop


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quote:

ORIGINAL: nukkxx5058

@lecrop: Yes Stalingrad is one of my potential pick. Looks definitely good. How about PBEM ? easy to find opponents ?

But so many other titles are tempting ...

The best way to find rivals to play John Tiller games in pbem is to sign up for one of the clubs on the internet. I particularly recommend The Blitz.

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RE: Which JTS Panzer game should I buy first ? - 12/31/2019 1:25:47 PM   
nukkxx5058


Posts: 2932
Joined: 2/3/2005
From: France
Status: offline 		Yep, I'm a member but havent yet played. How easy/difficult it is to find an opponent ? I'm asking because given the large number of JTS titles, it seems more difficult to find a guy with the same game ... But I'm probably wrong ... :-)

(in reply to lecrop)
Post #: 7
RE: Which JTS Panzer game should I buy first ? - 12/31/2019 2:09:30 PM   
loki100


Posts: 10920
Joined: 10/20/2012
From: Utlima Thule
Status: offline 		going back to your original question, Minsk 44 is good, lots of unusual situations. France 40 is a real gem, again lots of good scenarios and it does a first rate job of exploring the Nazi invasion of the Netherlands in particular. The scenario that brings together a French DLM with a Pzr Division is first rate. Also helps its such an under-modelled campaign and the granuality of the Pzr campaigns scale really fits it very well.

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RE: Which JTS Panzer game should I buy first ? - 12/31/2019 3:50:08 PM   
Simulacra53


Posts: 632
Joined: 5/16/2015
Status: offline 		From small to huge scale

Squad Battles
Panzer Battles
Panzer Campaigns

You say you like the Eastern Front and large battles.
There is a lot of choice

Squad Battles
- Advance of the Reich
- Red Victory

Panzer Battles
- Kursk Southern Flank

Panzer Campaigns
- Smolensk ‘41
- Moscow ‘41
- Moscow ‘42
- Rzhev ‘42
- Kharkov ‘42
- Stalingrad ‘42
- Kharkov ‘43
- Kursk ‘43
- Korsun ‘44
- Minsk 44
- Budapest ‘45

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RE: Which JTS Panzer game should I buy first ? - 12/31/2019 3:52:18 PM   
Simulacra53


Posts: 632
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Status: offline 		Ah, also worth a look East Prussia ‘14, not WW2 but First World War Campaign series.

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RE: Which JTS Panzer game should I buy first ? - 12/31/2019 3:54:21 PM   
Simulacra53


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quote:

ORIGINAL: loki100

going back to your original question, Minsk 44 is good, lots of unusual situations. France 40 is a real gem, again lots of good scenarios and it does a first rate job of exploring the Nazi invasion of the Netherlands in particular. The scenario that brings together a French DLM with a Pzr Division is first rate. Also helps its such an under-modelled campaign and the granuality of the Pzr campaigns scale really fits it very well.


France ‘40 is indeed very nice, especially with the expanded (NL) map.
...which brings France ‘14 as another beauty, imo.


Back to topic

PzC Smolensk or one of the Kharkovs, as these are still manageable.
PB Kursk Southern Flank is the best of both worlds.

SB, I do not have AotR only RV, so cannot advice one over the other.

< Message edited by Simulacra53 -- 12/31/2019 4:34:51 PM >

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RE: Which JTS Panzer game should I buy first ? - 12/31/2019 4:43:41 PM   
nelmsm1


Posts: 1041
Joined: 1/21/2002
From: Texas
Status: offline 		If you want large battles with lots of units you'll probably want to go with one of the Panzer Campaign games. From there pick the Eastern Front game that interests you the most. You'll find opponents without any problems at the Blitz site as a lot of players are like me and own most if not all the titles. I've yet to see an opponent wanted post at the Blitz go unreplied to for very long.

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RE: Which JTS Panzer game should I buy first ? - 12/31/2019 6:51:10 PM   
wodin


Posts: 10762
Joined: 4/20/2003
From: England
Status: offline 		Ask at the Blitz forum. They will advise on best game for PBEM.

Squad Battles for me is so close to the perfect tactical turn based game. I so wish the code was given over to someone who could then redo the ammo system and add multi level buildings..then it would be perfect. I'd say any title upto and including the Vietnam ones are worth buying. The games set after Vietnam I feel the engine doesn't cope so well so I'd stay away from.

AOTR, RV and ES are all great WW2 titles. Probably RV if you can only buy one EF title.

< Message edited by wodin -- 12/31/2019 6:53:40 PM >

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RE: Which JTS Panzer game should I buy first ? - 12/31/2019 6:56:33 PM   
AndySfromVA

 

Posts: 130
Joined: 4/4/2009
Status: offline 		If you want excellent graphics check out the JTS Civil War or Early American War games. The graphics are fantastic.

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Post #: 14
RE: Which JTS Panzer game should I buy first ? - 12/31/2019 7:47:05 PM   
budd


Posts: 2972
Joined: 7/4/2009
From: Tacoma
Status: offline 		I prefer the panzer battles scale, I'm partial to ranged fire games. Either way don't forget to use the link for the store at the blitz forums for 25% off through today, so hurry.

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"Be Yourself; Everyone else is already taken" ~Oscar Wilde

*I'm in the Wargamer middle ground*
I don't buy all the wargames I want, I just buy more than I need.

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RE: Which JTS Panzer game should I buy first ? - 1/1/2020 4:56:25 PM   
rommel222

 

Posts: 725
Joined: 9/21/2015
Status: offline 		Greetings nukkxx5058,
The Panzer Campaign series are usually high unit density (Kursk, Stalingrad, Moscow, etc)
There are some Panzer Campaign titles that are lower unit density but very good (Market Garden, Sicily, etc)
These might be better to start with to see if you want to invest the time & money in larger game titles.

Be sure to try the Panzer Campaign free Mius 43 demo at JTS software:
http://www.johntillersoftware.com/Demos.php

I agree with budd's post about Panzer Battles series with ranged fire.

I will put in a plug for John Tiller's Campaign Series on sale here since it covers East, West, Africa & Pacific fronts.
https://www.matrixgames.com/game/john-tillers-campaign-series It is a steal at less than $10! I always go back to it.


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Post #: 16
RE: Which JTS Panzer game should I buy first ? - 1/1/2020 8:39:31 PM   
nukkxx5058


Posts: 2932
Joined: 2/3/2005
From: France
Status: offline 		Guys, it's too difficult to decide ...

I want at least 2 more Napoleonic JTS games (Russia and Spain) and I'd like at least one squad title, one panzer battle and one panzer campaign. And all these with my tiny empty wallet :-(

When I mean high units density, here is what I mean (from Kursk). Look at the jump map !!

http://www.johntillersoftware.com/PanzerCampaigns/Kursk43/k43_ss6.png

(in reply to rommel222)
Post #: 17
RE: Which JTS Panzer game should I buy first ? - 1/2/2020 7:38:07 AM   
nukkxx5058


Posts: 2932
Joined: 2/3/2005
From: France
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: rommel222
I agree with budd's post about Panzer Battles series with ranged fire.


What is the issue with range fire ? Generally speaking, I love ranged fire in wargames ... So smaller hexes should offfer better range fire options than 1km hexes. Would appreciate if you guys could elaborate a bit on this matter.

Havent purchased yet so I guess i missed the Blitz discount coupon :-(((

Can't decide what to purchase. And my treasury is very limited these days ... I def want Napo's Russia + one WW2 or Modern squad battle + 1 East Front panzer battle and/or campaign. Cant decide which ones.

(in reply to rommel222)
Post #: 18
RE: Which JTS Panzer game should I buy first ? - 1/2/2020 9:22:14 AM   
Simulacra53


Posts: 632
Joined: 5/16/2015
Status: offline 		Just some friendly advice - don’t fuzz about it...
Or how I stopped worrying about what John Tiller game to buy next.

These are just games, not life changing decisions.

I am sure some OCD type grognards will jump on me, but these Tiller games are all fundamentally the same, with each series having its own subset of features and play style.

Once you decide between the scale of Panzer Corps, Panzer Battles or Squad Battles, just buy the Campaign / Battle that appeals most to you.

IF you plan to jump right into the PBEM side of Tiller, sure check TheBlitz.org stats on game / scenario.
This also offers an insight into the balance of scenarios. but you can go old and blind while weighing all the pros and cons of title X vs title Y.

As for unit density, simple: how much time do you want spend every turn, how long do you want to wait for the other side?

Balance, it should be clear that Minsk ‘44 is about the collapse of Army Group center, so expect a Soviet offensive... Some reflect the tide of battle, like Bulge ‘44.

1. Scale
2. Theatre
3. Battle/Campaign

I actually like all three scale types, they each offer enough difference to make it worthwhile.
The FWWC and MC Series offer their own play style, while still being Campaign games.

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RE: Which JTS Panzer game should I buy first ? - 1/2/2020 9:46:16 AM   
Simulacra53


Posts: 632
Joined: 5/16/2015
Status: offline 		SB - Squad - 40m hexes @ 5mins
PzB - Platoon - 250m hexes @ 30mins
PzC - Company - 1000m hexes @ 120mins

In SB you’ll have a lot of ranged fighting, in PzC most combat (except artillery) will be with adjacent hexes.
PzB sits in the middle ground, ideal for some to others neither fish nor fowl. IMO it works well.

I’ll let the grognards take over from here.

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RE: Which JTS Panzer game should I buy first ? - 1/2/2020 11:25:20 AM   
nukkxx5058


Posts: 2932
Joined: 2/3/2005
From: France
Status: offline 		Thanks for the comments. Useful ! Narrowing my choices ...

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RE: Which JTS Panzer game should I buy first ? - 1/2/2020 1:12:40 PM   
rommel222

 

Posts: 725
Joined: 9/21/2015
Status: offline 		Greetings Simulacra53,
+1

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RE: Which JTS Panzer game should I buy first ? - 1/2/2020 3:24:59 PM   
nukkxx5058


Posts: 2932
Joined: 2/3/2005
From: France
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: AndySfromVA

If you want excellent graphics check out the JTS Civil War or Early American War games. The graphics are fantastic.

This is also an important part of the game IMO...
Just had a look at Gettysburg and yes, definitely !
http://www.johntillersoftware.com/CivilWarBattles/CampaignGettysburg/Gettysburg1.png


I like nice graphics for a better immersion. Will definitely consider a JTS civil war game at one point in time.



< Message edited by nukkxx5058 -- 1/2/2020 3:26:57 PM >

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RE: Which JTS Panzer game should I buy first ? - 1/2/2020 4:22:07 PM   
Strelaoz

 

Posts: 29
Joined: 12/6/2010
Status: offline 		As the lead designer for all the Panzer Battles titles as well as Panzer Campaigns Kharkov ‘43 and Moscow ‘42, please fire away with any questions...!

If you want unit density, Moscow ‘42 is probably the absolute king. For playable size, the Longest Day scenario from PzB Normandy is worth a look.

David

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RE: Which JTS Panzer game should I buy first ? - 1/2/2020 5:26:02 PM   
nukkxx5058


Posts: 2932
Joined: 2/3/2005
From: France
Status: offline
quote:

David


quote:

Scenario Design: David Freer
Additional Scenario Design: Eric Baker
Project Coordinator: David Freer
Order of Battle: David Freer


Oh !! I'm impresssed ! Just had a look at Moscow 42 and it really looks impressive. And the battle for Moscow is certainly high in my eastern front battles list. Looks like you sold it to me as my Campaign choice.

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RE: Which JTS Panzer game should I buy first ? - 1/2/2020 7:56:11 PM   
76mm


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quote:

ORIGINAL: nukkxx5058
Just had a look at Moscow 42 and it really looks impressive. And the battle for Moscow is certainly high in my eastern front battles list. Looks like you sold it to me as my Campaign choice.

I'm playing a Moscow 42 Campaign (Fall Kreml) right now. The map and number of units are massive. I generally don't play the big PzC campaigns vs the AI anymore, it just can't cope with the huge scope. That said, the campaigns are big enough that they are pretty fun to play hotseat against yourself...you can't really keep everything that's going on in your head, although of course complete surprise is hard to achieve!


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RE: Which JTS Panzer game should I buy first ? - 1/2/2020 8:12:31 PM   
matt3916

 

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Status: offline 		Don't forget they offer a bulk discount of 20% off on all orders over $199.

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RE: Which JTS Panzer game should I buy first ? - 1/2/2020 8:27:09 PM   
Blond_Knight


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quote:

ORIGINAL: 76mm

quote:

ORIGINAL: nukkxx5058
Just had a look at Moscow 42 and it really looks impressive. And the battle for Moscow is certainly high in my eastern front battles list. Looks like you sold it to me as my Campaign choice.

I'm playing a Moscow 42 Campaign (Fall Kreml) right now. The map and number of units are massive. I generally don't play the big PzC campaigns vs the AI anymore, it just can't cope with the huge scope. That said, the campaigns are big enough that they are pretty fun to play hotseat against yourself...you can't really keep everything that's going on in your head, although of course complete surprise is hard to achieve!




I only ever play vs the AI. But I also only play the smaller "parts" of the campaign and not the entire campaign itself.

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RE: Which JTS Panzer game should I buy first ? - 1/2/2020 8:41:04 PM   
76mm


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Blond_Knight
But I also only play the smaller "parts" of the campaign and not the entire campaign itself.

From my experience in the large campaigns the AI just completely breaks down once you're 30-40 turns in, even if the AI is playing defense. Understandable really, but not super-enjoyable.

For fortification-heavy campaigns, such as Minsk or Moscow 42, I seriously doubt that the AI could make any progress at all as attacker (although I haven't tried).

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Post #: 29
RE: Which JTS Panzer game should I buy first ? - 1/3/2020 5:40:13 AM   
nukkxx5058


Posts: 2932
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quote:

ORIGINAL: 76mm


I'm playing a Moscow 42 Campaign (Fall Kreml) right now. The map and number of units are massive. I generally don't play the big PzC campaigns vs the AI anymore, it just can't cope with the huge scope. That said, the campaigns are big enough that they are pretty fun to play hotseat against yourself...you can't really keep everything that's going on in your head, although of course complete surprise is hard to achieve!


So AI won't make it on large scenarios? Is it what you say ? I was also wondering how long would an AI turn last on games with 7000+ units ... This might be an issue ...

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