Suggestion: ASW Patrol AI, Identifying contacts

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Suggestion: ASW Patrol AI, Identifying contacts

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Suggestion: ASW Patrol AI, Identifying contacts - 12/31/2019 5:02:41 PM

AKar

Posts: 81
Joined: 3/18/2018
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Hey, and happy new year!

A quick suggestion; on ASW Patrol missions (with weapons on tight, particularly), I sometimes get units consisting of helicopters and/or maritime patrol airplanes stupidly swarming around an unidentified underwater contact that is under the layer. It appears, at least if there is a random sonobuoy already nearby, that the hunters don't have a presence of mind to throw in a passive sonobuoy under the layer for contact identification.

Of course I can throw that in manually, but given how big effects an unidentified underwater contact can have on a multiple-unit, wide-area ASW mission (all rushing in to simply swarm around the unidentified sub or whale or whatever), I think that errs towards the micromanagement side.

Any thoughts?

Post #: 1

RE: Suggestion: ASW Patrol AI, Identifying contacts - 12/31/2019 5:28:57 PM

dcpollay

Posts: 532
Joined: 11/22/2012
From: Upstate New York USA
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If I recall correctly, there is a Doctrine setting that allows you to limit the number of units responding to a contact??? Someone feel free to correct/clarify this....

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Formerly known as Colonel Mustard, before I got Slitherine Syndrome.

(in reply to AKar)

Post #: 2

RE: Suggestion: ASW Patrol AI, Identifying contacts - 12/31/2019 5:47:39 PM

stilesw

Posts: 1497
Joined: 6/26/2014
From: Hansville, WA, USA
Status: offline

quote:

If I recall correctly, there is a Doctrine setting that allows you to limit the number of units responding to a contact??? Someone feel free to correct/clarify this....

Daniel,

Correct. Check "Missions + Ref Points > Mission Editor":

-WS

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�There is no limit to what a man can do so long as he does not care a straw who gets the credit for it.�

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~Disenchantment, ch. 15 (1922)

(in reply to AKar)

Post #: 3

RE: Suggestion: ASW Patrol AI, Identifying contacts - 12/31/2019 5:55:44 PM

AKar

Posts: 81
Joined: 3/18/2018
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Yes, that's true, but the point was on effort of identifying the contact.

So, even if I had only one or two (or a thousand of) units engaging, I'd love just one of them of throwing that sonobuoy capable of identifying the contact automatically, according to the known target specs, specifically, being under or above the layer.

< Message edited by AKar -- 12/31/2019 6:00:25 PM >

(in reply to stilesw)

Post #: 4

RE: Suggestion: ASW Patrol AI, Identifying contacts - 12/31/2019 11:52:40 PM

dcpollay

Posts: 532
Joined: 11/22/2012
From: Upstate New York USA
Status: offline

If your units possess both active and passive sonobuoys, the expected behavior should be dropping a mix of active and passive, both above and below the layer. What is happening in your case? You can check the depth of a buoy by clicking on it and viewing the unit information window.

As for identifying the contact, it will not be "automatic," and is not determined by their position above or below the layer. IDing the contact is a process that will take place over a period of time. If the contact is very quiet, that could be a long time to achieve. Older model sensors may not be able to do it at all.

As an aside, I'm not sure how you know the contact is below the layer. Does the contact info include the depth of the contact?

So, is your issue:

- Units are not dropping buoys?
- Buoys are not dropping to the correct depth? If not deep, is your water depth deep enough to have a layer?
- The contact is not being classified?
- Something else?

Posting a game save file would be helpful. (Disclaimer: I can't review the file since I don't yet own CMO, but someone else will be able to do so.)

_____________________________

"It's all according to how your boogaloo situation stands, you understand."

Formerly known as Colonel Mustard, before I got Slitherine Syndrome.

(in reply to AKar)

Post #: 5

RE: Suggestion: ASW Patrol AI, Identifying contacts - 1/1/2020 1:05:15 AM

DWReese

Posts: 1824
Joined: 3/21/2014
From: Miami, Florida
Status: offline

I have experienced the same issue as you.

One way to know if there is a problem is to manually assign the helo to attack the sub. If it then immediately starts moving to prosecute (locate) and attack the sub, the you know if there is something wrong with the code. Often, the procedure used looks a little strange as it starts on one side of your elongated box, and then moves to the other.

If it doesn't do anything at all, then the problem is either something with the setup (i.e. two helos needed, or no weapons, etc.) OR there is some kind of message that pops up to explain WHY it can't move to attack the sub.

Play with it a little bit, and you will discover what the problem is. If there is no apparent reason, then it might be some kind of code issue.

(in reply to AKar)

Post #: 6

RE: Suggestion: ASW Patrol AI, Identifying contacts - 1/1/2020 8:07:55 AM

Rory Noonan

Posts: 2816
Joined: 12/18/2014
From: Brooklyn, NY
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Current sonobouy deployment behaviour is basically to lay sonobouys with minimally overlapping detection ranges in a field around the contact or patrol area. There's definitely some room for improvement but it's difficult to pin down a behaviour that covers all situations.

Dropping more sonobouys around an unknown contact seems reasonable though, so perhaps that's something we could look into in the future (probably about a month before we get reports of units wasting sonobouys on false contacts and biologiicals

)

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RE: Suggestion: ASW Patrol AI, Identifying contacts - 1/1/2020 8:11:20 AM

AKar

Posts: 81
Joined: 3/18/2018
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I've had this happening in different occasions, but the last time specifically went as follows.

- A relatively large area ASW patrol mission is allocated to one MPA and several helicopters. Biologics are present, so I don't want to shoot just anything underwater (weapons are tight).

- The MPA throws a random active sonobuoy almost over the target, first detecting it. As the sonobuoy is active, it doesn't identify the contact. Helicopters rush to the scene, but fail to identify the contact with their dipping sonars as well. The contact remains as unknown submerged with depth under the layer depth.

- Probably due to close proximity of the previous sonobuoy, nobody seems interested to throw in a passive sonobuoy, preferably under the layer, to identify the contact. So the units kept swarming over the unidentified contact for a good while until I manually threw a passive sonobuoy under the layer. The target was immediately identified as a hostile submarine.

If the contact traveled far enough from the last dropped sonobuoy, I guess they would have thrown in another one according to their usual, alternating search pattern.

So, I'm thinking the close proximity to the last sonobuoy dropped in the search means the units won't drop another one capable of identifying the contact after the detection is made, even if the previous sonobuoy was incapable of making identification (an active one). If the target moved far enough from the last sonobuoy, I doubt they would specifically throw in a passive buoy either unless it happened to be in turn. So, I don't think anything is bugged or broken or anything, but am simply suggesting a slight addition to the airborne ASW AI so that they would be capable of identifying unknown underwater contacts using passive sonobuoys.

Edit: written before I read what Apache85 posted just before me.

< Message edited by AKar -- 1/1/2020 1:09:22 PM >

(in reply to DWReese)

Post #: 8

RE: Suggestion: ASW Patrol AI, Identifying contacts - 1/1/2020 9:52:20 AM

DWReese

Posts: 1824
Joined: 3/21/2014
From: Miami, Florida
Status: offline

AKar said......- "Probably due to close proximity of the previous sonobuoy, nobody seems interested to throw in a passive sonobuoy, preferably under the layer, to identify the contact. So the units kept swarming over the unidentified contact for a good while until I manually threw a passive sonobuoy under the layer. The target was immediately identified as a hostile submarine."

This is very true. It is as of the attackers only think in one dimension when dropping sonobuoys. If the sub is deeper, or between layers, it likely won't be found unless the game player MANUALLY elects deploy the sonobuoy at another depth. Then, as AKar said, the sub is located and identified pretty easily.

Just a tweak is needed.

(in reply to AKar)

Post #: 9

RE: Suggestion: ASW Patrol AI, Identifying contacts - 1/1/2020 3:23:26 PM

AKar

Posts: 81
Joined: 3/18/2018
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: apache85

Current sonobouy deployment behaviour is basically to lay sonobouys with minimally overlapping detection ranges in a field around the contact or patrol area. There's definitely some room for improvement but it's difficult to pin down a behaviour that covers all situations.

Dropping more sonobouys around an unknown contact seems reasonable though, so perhaps that's something we could look into in the future (probably about a month before we get reports of units wasting sonobouys on false contacts and biologiicals )

Sorry, did not catch your post before hitting OK with my previous!

Yes, that's just about exactly what I'm after. Basically, when an unknown submerged contact is detected, and WRA does not make the units to immediately throw a torpedo against the contact, a nearby ASW unit would simply drop a passive sonobuoy right on the top of the unknown for contact classification / identification.

(in reply to Rory Noonan)

Post #: 10