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Flaviusx v. Tyronec

 
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Flaviusx v. Tyronec - 1/14/2020 8:29:32 PM   
Flaviusx


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Joined: 9/9/2009
From: Southern California
Status: offline 		Sept. 15. Poland is out and so is Denmark.

Attention now turns to the cockpit of Europe, the low countries. The Dutch will surely fall on turn 3. Then mud and then Germany will set up to knock out Belgium in one quick go sometime during the winter when they can hope and expect to get a single clear weather turn.

Then they are 6 hexes away from Paris with the whole summer of 1940 ahead of them.

I have A Plan. It may not be a good plan, but we will find that out. How to delay the German war machine with all this cheese?

I must come up with my own cheese. Armored cheese. The WDF is on its way from Egypt soon to be followed by Wavell's HQ. (Lord Gort is staying home in Britain. The poor old dear is not up for this task.)

The British are saving up ever penny they can and will put a mech corps into the queue on turn 3. This sucks for the British, because as I have already mentioned the British economy sucks and it takes no less than 3 turns for this to be possible and everything else is hanging fire until then. No escorts. (And the subs are already raiding, btw.) No replacements. No nothing. These are the marvels of Britain having a GDP 50% the size of Germany, contrary to all reason and historicity.

The French, for their part, are putting a 1940 heavy armored corps into their queue at the end of turn 3 as well. Paradoxically, this is much easier for the French to do. They already have a mostly mobilized army. So, by putting this on garrison mode I can quickly generate the necessary production. That is 396 production points for this luxury item. The French economy is about the same size as the British, much to the amazement of any economic historian. This was certainly not the case in real life.

At any rate, by May of 1940 I will have 3 mechanized corps in France to counterattack with. I don't need infantry in France. The poilus have that covered. What I need here to delay the German war machine is something to punch back with.




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< Message edited by Flaviusx -- 1/14/2020 8:36:09 PM >

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RE: Flaviusx v. Tyronec - 1/15/2020 2:40:45 PM   
tyronec


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From: Portaferry, N. Ireland
Status: offline 		I made a mess up on turn 2 and as a result failed to take Netherlands on T3, plus took some unnecessary losses.

My build plan is 2 heavy Panzers for France, plus am going to try a lot of Close Support for a change this game. Am not keen on Mech, think the extra offensive value of Panzers is important for Barbarossa.

Would agree with Flavius that counter attack power is what matters, otherwise Axis can take more risks pushing forwards. Have yet to catch a BEF unit in France, maybe this time...

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RE: Flaviusx v. Tyronec - 1/15/2020 2:45:31 PM   
Flaviusx


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Status: offline 		The Dutch actually survived? But you had a panzer unit there on turn 2 ready to roll into Amsterdam. Honestly surprised that wasn't enough to get it done.

I appreciate the gift! Even if it is only for one turn.

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RE: Flaviusx v. Tyronec - 1/15/2020 3:21:46 PM   
Kilo59


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Status: offline 		Am so looking forward to following this AAR. Hope to glean all the intricacies of WarPlan's mechanics. From the eyes of a newb, it's the clash of the titans!

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RE: Flaviusx v. Tyronec - 1/15/2020 3:31:25 PM   
tyronec


Posts: 4940
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From: Portaferry, N. Ireland
Status: offline 		No, MichaelT is the Titan !
Think I did about 6 attacks on Amsterdam, plus bombing, was not enough.

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RE: Flaviusx v. Tyronec - 1/15/2020 3:35:33 PM   
Flaviusx


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Status: offline 		I checked the combat logs, the RAF intercepted and gave a surprisingly good account of itself.

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RE: Flaviusx v. Tyronec - 1/15/2020 3:38:07 PM   
Flaviusx


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Status: offline 		I think I have perhaps been conditioned to expect perfect die rolls from the enemy here after my last game.

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RE: Flaviusx v. Tyronec - 1/15/2020 3:53:50 PM   
tyronec


Posts: 4940
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From: Portaferry, N. Ireland
Status: offline 		Took it on turn 4, through the mud.
Too many casualties but at least we are back on schedule.




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RE: Flaviusx v. Tyronec - 1/15/2020 3:55:01 PM   
Flaviusx


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Status: offline 		Ouch, 18 air losses on my end is not a joke. Not exactly swimming in production over here.

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RE: Flaviusx v. Tyronec - 1/15/2020 4:22:01 PM   
Almeron

 

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Status: offline 		Don't be to scared. Any german loss in 39 means less fighting power in 40 summer/fall. The most critical stage of the game as Britain. Just keep the ration 1:1.

Your forces around the french-german borders (the 50 XP troops). Did you replaced them, with less experienced troops?

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RE: Flaviusx v. Tyronec - 1/15/2020 4:39:36 PM   
Flaviusx


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Status: offline 		I'm in the process of sorting things out. I'm limited by rail, mud, and most everything being in garrison mode, so it's going to take a couple more turns to get it all in perfect order. Plus the colonial troops take time to arrive as well, they only just reached the front.

Overall the air loss ratio is ok thanks to turn 3, but it's going to be very difficult to keep that up if there are more turns like turn 4. I doubt it can be done. Part of the problem is I cannot spare the production to upgrade the RAF to 40 interceptors very easily. First priority is getting the WDF up to speed. And after delaying several turns I have to start cranking escorts now. So 40 points a turn are accounted for already just for that. That leaves me with 70 points for replacements and upgrades.

This is not much to work with. And I'm not doing French lend lease this time around because after the big armor buy they can't afford this, they have their own units to flesh out. Plus I need to switch garrison units back to active mode ASAP.

Have I mentioned that the UK economy it is too small? It really should be somewhere around 75% of the German starting economy. Not 1/2. Going by 1939 GDP figures. That would add something like 40 production a turn and it would help enormously.

< Message edited by Flaviusx -- 1/15/2020 4:41:59 PM >

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RE: Flaviusx v. Tyronec - 1/15/2020 5:33:42 PM   
Almeron

 

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Status: offline 		Leave all escort building, and focusing on air war. Yes sounds costly, but you have 6 fighter, and the german only 4. And after you hit them, the german player could reinforce his looses, or build something else. But doesn't matter, just attack, with your air power. And even spend all PP, to maintain the losses.

My advice is to leave Canada build those (they could build 1/2 turn), focusing all escort on North Atlantic, all 3 CVs on hunting mission, with all DD's around Scapa Flow. They are not the best sub hunter, but sometimes they could score a hit.

And if you commit yourself to defend France, do it properly. Most troops from the Mediterranean Sea should be transferred to france (except Algir, Malta, and Gibraltar). There are a few fully strength british division in Egypt, and the could form a corps.

The combined allied navy defend England, so less troops need to stay in GB as well in long run. The best strategy is the land and air war. Paris blocks the italian entry, so France must be defended at all cost, and with 3 armored corps, you have the fighting power in 40/may.

And another advice, disband two of your french army HQ, for 100 PP. Could be handy building the second armour.

Germany has 200-250 PP, France and GB little less, but close to 1:1 ratio.

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RE: Flaviusx v. Tyronec - 1/15/2020 5:42:33 PM   
Flaviusx


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Status: offline 		The colonials are all in France already.

I do not like this idea of delaying escort production.

I am not sending any British infantry to France if I can possibly hep it. France is already getting two mobile corps from the UK.

The French do not need infantry. They have plenty already.

< Message edited by Flaviusx -- 1/15/2020 5:44:22 PM >

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RE: Flaviusx v. Tyronec - 1/15/2020 5:54:42 PM   
Almeron

 

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Status: offline 		You shoud have at least 4 infantry corps, and the WDF in France. Place them around Lille, and create secondary lines, based on Somme river. Without british support France will fall 3-4 turn sooner, than she shoud.
The best sealion defense is still France.

And the escort production need to be delayed. You need an army, and air force to protect yourself. London can't be defended by escorts. I believe the dynamic of this game strongly favored that strategy.

< Message edited by Almeron -- 1/15/2020 6:04:13 PM >

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RE: Flaviusx v. Tyronec - 1/15/2020 6:00:08 PM   
tyronec


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quote:

Leave all escort building, and focusing on air war. Yes sounds costly, but you have 6 fighter, and the german only 4. And after you hit them, the german player could reinforce his looses, or build something else. But doesn't matter, just attack, with your air power. And even spend all PP, to maintain the losses.

What are you saying he should attack with all his air power ?

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RE: Flaviusx v. Tyronec - 1/15/2020 6:11:36 PM   
Almeron

 

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Status: offline 		Yes. Attack with airpower. At least all sides commit himself to air fight, what means less german armours, less subs...
And if the german try to avoid that fight (sending the planes out of range), he will lose the opportunity to attack during 39/40 bad weather season with airpower against Belgium. What is a huge deal.

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RE: Flaviusx v. Tyronec - 1/15/2020 6:32:44 PM   
Flaviusx


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Status: offline 		Most of the German air force is either out of reach or sitting on flak.

I have tried a couple of exploratory attacks on these units sitting on flak. And I have lost 2 points each time with no losses to the Germans. It's not a viable proposition. You will burn out the allied air force doing it to no purpose and the allies can hardly afford doing that.

My best results have been intercepting his air not trying to bomb his bases covered with flak.

Frankly, I'm struggling as is just getting my units topped off here without adding unnecessary loses.



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RE: Flaviusx v. Tyronec - 1/15/2020 6:35:51 PM   
Flaviusx


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From: Southern California
Status: offline 		The German, btw, will just stand down his air and put it on mission only if I try these fighter sweeps. That's what I would do. He has no need to fly it until he's ready to attack. It is perfectly safe sitting in its present bases.

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RE: Flaviusx v. Tyronec - 1/15/2020 6:44:03 PM   
Almeron

 

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Status: offline 		Bomb troops, farm some XP. If the german remains quiet, then you can continue your preferred build.
But still a good advice to skip the early escort build. Maybe another fighter. And french lead lease is important.
Even if you planning to build one french armour, better to give GB instead as soon as it's possible.
A british fighter buildt from french PP could last for the end of the game.

< Message edited by Almeron -- 1/15/2020 6:47:07 PM >

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RE: Flaviusx v. Tyronec - 1/15/2020 6:46:35 PM   
Flaviusx


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From: Southern California
Status: offline 		I'll try bombing his troops next turn, but again, what I would do here is put the luftwaffe on mission only.

The German can simply ignore these attacks. And his troops have their own flak.

This isn't quite the silver bullet you think it is if the German knows how to manage his air force.

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RE: Flaviusx v. Tyronec - 1/15/2020 6:55:08 PM   
Almeron

 

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Status: offline 		Do not attack flak based hex. And if the german avoid any fight, well, wait unitl Belgium.
How many german planes where killed yet? If more than 40+ you did a good job.

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RE: Flaviusx v. Tyronec - 1/15/2020 7:15:40 PM   
Michael T


Posts: 4443
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From: Queensland, Australia.
Status: offline 		Your Armoured counter attack force is what I have been doing since day one. I always have 3 Allied Tank Corp. In my current game I managed to kill 2 German Panzer Corp, 2 German INF Corp and over run a Bomber. Plus lots of step air/Pz/Inf losses on the German. France still fell in August but it was a bloody victory for Germany.

The basic strategy is sound. Fight in France with teeth.

The key is too know when to pack up and get out without losing BEF units.

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RE: Flaviusx v. Tyronec - 1/15/2020 9:27:47 PM   
Flaviusx


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From: Southern California
Status: offline 		This is part of the reason I don't want to send in infantry. I'm afraid they won't be easily extracted when the time comes to bug out. And I frankly don't think the French need more infantry in France. There is enough there to do the job already. What is lacking is the ability to punish the German spearhead.

In retrospect I could've waited one more turn and substituted a 2nd UK armored corps for the mech that I actually built, but I am afraid of bad weather luck and having the WDF there by itself for too long.

This way the WDF gets there immediately. The UK mech arrives in February. And the French armored arrives in April. I won't be biting my nails here quite so much and fearing a stretch of cold. I am very gunshy about this now.

Now I am trying to decide what to do with advancements. Am leaning towards slapping an antitank on the French armor and infiltration on the UK one. If there is time for a second attachment, an AT on the British mech. At the point of contact the Allies would actually have superiority in armor this way and some minor bonus in forcing retreats.

Most folks seem to want to use the elite advancement. I don't know.

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RE: Flaviusx v. Tyronec - 1/15/2020 9:59:45 PM   
Flaviusx


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From: Southern California
Status: offline 		Nov 10, heavy rains shut down the front. No bombing is possible nor hardly any movement. I can't even merge garrison units in this mud, which is bit awkward since I am splitting and recombining things to get it just right.

I judge the French situation sufficiently stable to start lend lease to Britain. They need the extra production quite badly. I decided, against my judgement, to forego buying an escort this turn and save up for some big ticket item. Not sure what. I very much fear finding myself without adequate escorts in mid 1940 if I keep deferring these builds. The subs are plinking away happily at British convoys already. Note that the allies only begin with 15 escorts total and 3 of those are French. This is manifestly inadequate and if the Germans chose the correct convoy route, they will find it underdefended. Subs are a much more serious threat now than before and cannot be totally ignored.




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< Message edited by Flaviusx -- 1/15/2020 10:02:10 PM >

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RE: Flaviusx v. Tyronec - 1/15/2020 11:25:27 PM   
Michael T


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Status: offline 		I put AT on the French. One AT and one Elite for the Brits.

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RE: Flaviusx v. Tyronec - 1/15/2020 11:51:16 PM   
Flaviusx


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Status: offline 		So you aren't sold on infiltration?

I wish I knew just how big of a deal that extra 5% retreat was. This is very much under the hood and there is no way to gauge it. 5% could be significant depending on the retreat chance. Or not.

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RE: Flaviusx v. Tyronec - 1/16/2020 12:49:10 AM   
Journier

 

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Status: offline 		i think it also affects not only retreat but shatter chance. that 5% could be huge across 10 armored units, if you were willing to eat not having one of the other specialties.

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RE: Flaviusx v. Tyronec - 1/16/2020 1:09:21 AM   
Flaviusx


Posts: 7750
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Status: offline 		I do not think the infiltration bonus stacks. All you need is one unit in the combat with it, and any more besides that are wasted.

If they *do* stack, that would be crazy good. Maybe too good.

Indeed, I'm pretty sure none of the attachments stack like this. Like bombardment.



< Message edited by Flaviusx -- 1/16/2020 1:10:16 AM >

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RE: Flaviusx v. Tyronec - 1/17/2020 12:27:19 AM   
Flaviusx


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Status: offline 		Nov 24, snow.

I tried this little bombing thing. Result: four lost allied air factors and one lost German land factor. The luftwaffe, as expected, declined to play.

A damp squib. Won't be trying that again.

The German doesn't have to get into grinding battles of attrition in the air if he doesn't want to. It will happen only when and if he advances. It cannot be imposed on him otherwise. I'm better off sitting tight and waiting for it. They'll be coming soon enough.

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RE: Flaviusx v. Tyronec - 1/17/2020 2:21:34 AM   
Michael T


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Status: offline 		The infiltration thing does not stack according to the rules.

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