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Soviet activation - 1/16/2020 8:41:53 PM

RogerJNeilson
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Ok when it happens all the land forces and the airforces become active, an intersting 'mixed bag' they are too. But no sign of any naval forces? Do these suddenly appear or do they only drip feed in according to some reinforcement schedule?

Roger

< Message edited by RogerJNeilson -- 1/16/2020 8:42:16 PM >

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RE: Soviet activation - 1/16/2020 9:00:49 PM

btd64
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Depends on the activation date. I went active once but didn't get the ships. Look in the ship reinforcements in mid July 45 and you should see them....GP

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RE: Soviet activation - 1/16/2020 9:05:04 PM

RogerJNeilson
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aha I see, everything seems to be 1 day after activation according to the list. Its the 14th April 1945....

Not that there is a lot on the list....

Roger

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RE: Soviet activation - 1/16/2020 9:16:29 PM

btd64
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Should have a bunch of subs. The surface ships are outdated....GP

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RE: Soviet activation - 1/16/2020 9:26:14 PM

RogerJNeilson
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Indeed, though I really don't have much to do with the subs I already have these days. I suppose the landing craft may come in useful.

Roger

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RE: Soviet activation - 1/16/2020 9:29:52 PM

btd64
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True....GP

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RE: Soviet activation - 1/16/2020 11:48:48 PM

Lokasenna
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Not outdated so much as just not really that useful. Many of the DDs were late-30s DDs, for example, and the CLs were as well.

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RE: Soviet activation - 1/17/2020 3:10:44 AM

BBfanboy
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

Not outdated so much as just not really that useful. Many of the DDs were late-30s DDs, for example, and the CLs were as well.

I activated the Soviets in 1942 and subsequently used their ships a lot. Their DD guns were very effective and their ASW was decent. They had been fighting U-boats for some time. The subs had working torpedoes and quite a few good skippers.

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RE: Soviet activation - 1/17/2020 2:16:11 PM

dr.hal
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I'm playing Ironman Tier 3 against the Jap AI and the Japs attacked the USSR in early '42. Shocked the heck out of me but it's been educational. The Subs and their superb skippers are a great asset as there are a lot of them and their torpedoes WORK! Their fighter aircraft are akin to the Nate (but bi-planes and open cockpit) but there are a lot of them and given what the designer did for the Japs in terms of numbers of aircraft, you need them. On land what the Soviets have is ARTILLERY and LOTS of it... if you concentrate it and get into an artillery shoot out with the Japs, they die.

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RE: Soviet activation - 1/17/2020 6:19:18 PM

RogerJNeilson
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Thanks, its all a bit irrelevant really at this stage, on the ground apart from the HI the Japanese forces are impotent and the Soviets will just roll over them, their planes are incredibly short legged so not much use, and their subs will spend their lives looking for targets to sink which do not venture out of harbour.

Roger

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RE: Soviet activation - 1/18/2020 4:07:54 AM

BBfanboy
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quote:

ORIGINAL: RogerJNeilson

Thanks, its all a bit irrelevant really at this stage, on the ground apart from the HI the Japanese forces are impotent and the Soviets will just roll over them, their planes are incredibly short legged so not much use, and their subs will spend their lives looking for targets to sink which do not venture out of harbour.

Roger

Understood. I wanted to clarify "usefulness" a bit for the new players who have no experience with the Soviet forces and might at some point get some use out of them with an earlier activation or a more potent end-game Japan.

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RE: Soviet activation - 1/18/2020 10:51:24 AM

RangerJoe
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Yes, just look what happened to Lowpe when he dropped some rotten sushi off on the coast of the USSR.

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RE: Soviet activation - 1/21/2020 4:11:42 AM

Ian R
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quote:

ORIGINAL: RogerJNeilson

Thanks, its all a bit irrelevant really at this stage, on the ground apart from the HI the Japanese forces are impotent and the Soviets will just roll over them, their planes are incredibly short legged so not much use, and their subs will spend their lives looking for targets to sink which do not venture out of harbour.

Roger

True that, but, after The Manchurian/Korean operation is completed, the limited numbers of Tu-2, Pe-2, and most of all the Pe-2R recon are useful. Get Uncle Joe to lease the "9" air bases in Korea to 10th Airforce*, and get the HQ into to run things. Those Soviet aircraft can be "op-conned" to Pusan, and with consistent base-HQ affiliations you get enough co-ordination that the VVS will fly with 10th AF escorts.

[*I have not tried to change a Soviet Airforce command to the same allied HQ as 10th AF. That might also be good for co-ordination.]

There are a couple of models of Soviet fighters with slightly longer range (6 or 7), and a few B25s which are useful, but I don't think you get any of those until about August '45.

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RE: Soviet activation - 1/21/2020 4:19:10 AM

Ian R
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quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

Not outdated so much as just not really that useful. Many of the DDs were late-30s DDs, for example, and the CLs were as well.

I activated the Soviets in 1942 and subsequently used their ships a lot. Their DD guns were very effective and their ASW was decent. They had been fighting U-boats for some time. The subs had working torpedoes and quite a few good skippers.

The first time I played the 3rd tier ironman, when the Soviets activated, I formed their surface forces into a TF at Vladivostok so they could react...

The IJNAF promptly sent over a massive strike with about 1000 B7A Graces/kamikaze Betties etc and long legged escorts, and sank most of them. Maybe a couple of cruisers and DDs were left in dock with about 80-90% damage the next day.

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RE: Soviet activation - 1/21/2020 5:39:23 AM

RogerJNeilson
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Ian R

quote:

ORIGINAL: RogerJNeilson

Thanks, its all a bit irrelevant really at this stage, on the ground apart from the HI the Japanese forces are impotent and the Soviets will just roll over them, their planes are incredibly short legged so not much use, and their subs will spend their lives looking for targets to sink which do not venture out of harbour.

Roger

True that, but, after The Manchurian/Korean operation is completed, the limited numbers of Tu-2, Pe-2, and most of all the Pe-2R recon are useful. Get Uncle Joe to lease the "9" air bases in Korea to 10th Airforce*, and get the HQ into to run things. Those Soviet aircraft can be "op-conned" to Pusan, and with consistent base-HQ affiliations you get enough co-ordination that the VVS will fly with 10th AF escorts.

[*I have not tried to change a Soviet Airforce command to the same allied HQ as 10th AF. That might also be good for co-ordination.]

There are a couple of models of Soviet fighters with slightly longer range (6 or 7), and a few B25s which are useful, but I don't think you get any of those until about August '45.

In terms of historical purism not sure how that would have worked in practice, in game terms seems a good idea. My own circumstance, as detailed in the AAR 'Play up and play the game' is Uncle Joe is incredibly tardy in showing up to the fight and the western allies already own all but two bases in Korea and have most of them at level 9 airfields already.....and more planes than tarmac to sit them on.

Roger

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RE: Soviet activation - 1/21/2020 12:49:31 PM

HansBolter
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Allied forces can deploy to Soviet owned bases as long as they are captured bases and not home country bases.

Soviet planes can deploy to Allied controlled bases.

I have the entire IL-2 force sitting in the HI hitting Tokyo daily.

The short range isn't an issue when you can deploy within two hexes of the target.

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RE: Soviet activation - 1/21/2020 12:59:18 PM

Kursk1943
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You can deploy Allied TFs to Soviet home bases as Vladivostok for instance to transfer Soviet divisions to Japan, but the home port of such TFs can't be a Soviet home port, only the TF's destination port.

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RE: Soviet activation - 1/21/2020 2:24:44 PM

spence
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quote:

Their DD guns were very effective and their ASW was decent. They had been fighting U-boats for some time.

According to U-Boat.net the Soviets sank 5 warships in their fight against the Germans. Their record on their "Western Front" was undistinguished even in their own estimation.

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RE: Soviet activation - 1/21/2020 2:53:08 PM

BBfanboy
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quote:

ORIGINAL: spence

quote:

Their DD guns were very effective and their ASW was decent. They had been fighting U-boats for some time.

According to U-Boat.net the Soviets sank 5 warships in their fight against the Germans. Their record on their "Western Front" was undistinguished even in their own estimation.

That is not surprising. The Soviet ships are short-ranged and Stalin kept them close to his bases to avoid defections. The Germans did not send U-boats or other ships close to Murmansk, Archangel, or Leningrad AFAIK. I have no idea if the Russians had a training program to keep their captains up-to-date with tactics like ASW doctrine. They were watching what happened in the Atlantic, Pacific, and Mediterranean.

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RE: Soviet activation - 1/21/2020 3:03:04 PM

Jorge_Stanbury
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The soviet navy (actually submarines S-13 and L-3) inflicted quite heavy loses to Germany.

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RE: Soviet activation - 1/21/2020 3:14:47 PM

spence
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quote:

The soviet navy (actually submarines S-13 and L-3) inflicted quite heavy loses to Germany.

I presume that you speak of sinking of those German liners in the late winter of 1945. U-boat.net gives the credit for both to submarine S-13. Submarine L-3 is not listed.

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RE: Soviet activation - 1/21/2020 3:36:06 PM

Jorge_Stanbury
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L-3 sank MV Goya; this was not a big liner, but it was one of the worst naval disasters, in terms of casualties

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RE: Soviet activation - 1/21/2020 10:44:10 PM

HansBolter
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Not sure exactly when this became 'enabled', but my current game is at April 19, 1946 and I just directed a beat up British cruiser force to Vladivostok for repairs.

The game engine enabled the Return to Vlad in the lower left corner of the TF interface.

Vladivostok is now the Home Port for this cruiser force.

Sorry for the screwed up image.

Attachment (1)

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RE: Soviet activation - 1/21/2020 10:53:03 PM

RangerJoe
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From gin and tonic to VODKA!

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RE: Soviet activation - 1/22/2020 12:28:43 AM

HansBolter
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The point being that at some point it becomes possible to assign Soviet home country bases as Home Port for non-Soviet Allied TFs.

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RE: Soviet activation - 1/22/2020 4:15:23 AM

BBfanboy
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quote:

ORIGINAL: HansBolter

The point being that at some point it becomes possible to assign Soviet home country bases as Home Port for non-Soviet Allied TFs.

Yes, and they will repair your ships. But IIRC, you better bring your own fuel and AKE.

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RE: Soviet activation - 1/22/2020 6:18:22 AM

Kursk1943
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quote:

ORIGINAL: HansBolter

The point being that at some point it becomes possible to assign Soviet home country bases as Home Port for non-Soviet Allied TFs.

Oh, quite suprising! Would be interesting to know what triggers it. Game date or being a Brtish TF instead of a USN one?

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RE: Soviet activation - 1/22/2020 9:17:18 AM

RogerJNeilson
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I think in my game I will keep the Soviet bases strictly for the Soviets, I have my own baes in Korea and I do think its a bit of a stretch to assume the Soviets would be both willing and have the parts to repair western forces....

Roger

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RE: Soviet activation - 1/22/2020 10:31:04 AM

RangerJoe
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Actually, they did have some parts due to Lend Lease and more parts could have been provided. The Soviets would have enjoyed doing so in order to learn more about the things that they were working on.

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RE: Soviet activation - 1/22/2020 11:35:05 AM

HansBolter
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quote:

ORIGINAL: RogerJNeilson

I think in my game I will keep the Soviet bases strictly for the Soviets, I have my own baes in Korea and I do think its a bit of a stretch to assume the Soviets would be both willing and have the parts to repair western forces....

Roger

Given the level of cooperation already present in my current game with American amphibious assault shipping having been used to deliver 6 Soviet Armies to the HI and Soviet air forces operating from American and British controlled HI bases I don't see getting a few ships repaired in a Soviet home port as an egregious overstep.

The conquest of the HI requires a level of cooperation that is ahistorical, just like most of the game that led up to it was.

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