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2x3+ 017 Axis Moscow Defences - 1/14/2020 10:46:27 AM   
Telemecus


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T017 Axis Moscow Defences


There are no plans to continue the offensive after the mud - so we are hunkering down for winter. Infantry divisions are broken down to regiments. And in front of Moscow, 30 to 40 miles behind the front lines, we are digging in a stop line which takes advantage of a string of size 4 towns. They offer full protection to one unit from the effects of full blizzard and can shelter our best troops in winter quarters and allow them to play a part in the defence of Moscow at the same time.

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< Message edited by Telemecus -- 1/14/2020 10:47:25 AM >


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2x3+ 017 Axis Voronezh Pocket - 1/14/2020 11:59:14 AM   
Telemecus


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T017 Axis Voronezh Pocket


Our latest pocket is secured, again. Some units are "herded" in, and a ring of contravallation spreads out to stop any one from outside trying to break in. Some motorised is driving out to winter quarters - but painfully a lot has to stay behind to hold the pocket.

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2x3+ 017 Axis Poltava Pocket - 1/14/2020 12:01:27 PM   
Telemecus


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T017 Axis Poltava Pocket

The Spanish and Rumanians bring to an end the very long saga of the Poltava pocket. Just in time for the rail repair.



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2x3+ 017 Axis Mius - 1/14/2020 1:12:21 PM   
Telemecus


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T017 Axis Mius

With the unusually good weather predicted for the central weather zone, Kempf builds up his XXXXVIII Panzer Corps consisting of the Liebstandarte Adolf Hitler motorised infantry division, the Scandinavian volunteer motorised infantry division of SS Wiking, 16th motorised infantry division and 11th Panzer division. Maybe this is payback for Rostov's remarkable good fortune with the weather?




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Subject: 2x3+ 017 Axis Saratov Bombing - 1/14/2020 2:22:21 PM   
Crackaces


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When you look at the below diagram -- 144 bombers no results -- about 14.5% bomber losses. What is not shown is all the "turn away" results from being unescorted vs fighters. I think there is a GG die roll and if failed the bombers go home before bombing ...
------------------------------------
T017 Axis Saratov Bombing

The bombing is not going well now - but the Yak-1 factories are at a much lower level of production than they would have been if it were not for the bombing campaign.

With a suitable staging base, Saratov would now be in fighter escort distance. But not having used the logistical cycling of air bases means it is difficult to get one close enough with all the fuel wanted. This a detail that needs to be attended to every single turn.

quote:

Soviet Air Commander
Axis seams intent on bombing the Yak 1 factories at Engels,etc. they can grow to 25 but are at 14 right now, they only need 1% damage to stop expansion. I've put two air bases covering the 2 city hexes, but it seams the Axis just does night bombing as well. I recommend filling all those airbases with good Fighters, and set some of then to night mission, and/or Both night and air. There is also PVO regiments, these seam better thanks to the 85mm anti air.





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< Message edited by Crackaces -- 1/14/2020 2:28:19 PM >


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Subject: 2x3+ 017 Axis Kirov Bombing - 1/14/2020 2:33:32 PM   
Crackaces


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------------------------------------
T017 Axis Kirov Bombing?

Other big targets seem to have no fighter defense? Building on existing big damage levels makes the bombing much more effective.


Damn! 2 hexes short on Kirov! 1 hex short!




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RE: Subject: 2x3+ 017 Axis Kirov Bombing - 1/14/2020 2:39:29 PM   
Crackaces


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Myself, I do not try and apply real life principles to a game, and I see WITE simply as a very complex game. For example, all targets are treated the same with the same logic. There is some optimum number of platforms to commit to an attack and some optimum result. If you get into "real life" then the manpower bombing does not make sense at all. It is one thing committing 1,000 bombers to a T70 plant deep in the heart of the Soviet empire .. it is quite another hitting a city of 1M people as a general target. IN the latter case, the more the merrier produce more dead and wounded citizens. Actually, in WITE the perfect Manpower target is not a huge city, but lots of small towns that multiple small raids produce results. This was a strategy in the 8MP game.

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2x3+ 017 Axis Rail Repair - 1/14/2020 2:47:41 PM   
Telemecus


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T017 Axis Rail Repair

With the end of Operation Bronze Charger in the north and the pulling out of motorised units offensive operations are largely over for 1941. Only in the south, where Rostov stands out as the missed objective for 1941 and we are much closer to our start lines, are there plans for operations into the snow. As such rail repair ceases to be about supporting advances. Instead it will be primarily about reducing vehicle use by bringing as many branch rail lines as close to the front as possible. And secondarily providing redundancy in the rail network to avoid problems due to partisan activity.

One FBD at Moscow and one east of the Donbass remain at the disposition of our ground commanders. The remaining two are still under control of the Supreme Axis Commander to finish a lateral rail connection running from north to south.




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2x3+ 017 Axis Winter Railing - 1/14/2020 2:51:40 PM   
Telemecus


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T017 Axis Winter Railing

Already our railways are shaking to a different rhythm. The railways are now switching to their winter timetable. The first of our elite infantry and motorised units are seen on rails going WESTWARDS as they are scrambled to their winter quarters. Most will be reassigned to OKH - their commands will find new roles as infantry commanders during the blizzard. They will be split into regiments and sent to garrisons to prevent partisan activity.




Meanwhile the troops who had been minding the garrisons during the summer, mostly allies and security, are being sent the other way to take the winter attrition on the frontlines. Railway capacity will be maxed out for many turns, and the sooner this swap around can be done, the sooner the winter army will be digging in for blizzard.

This turn is only a small start without any daisy chained moves, it will get much quicker from next turn. And will need a lot of time on my part to schedule and calculate rail cap to maximise throughput as well as points for the reassigns. Next turn the torrent of allies moving out of garrisons starts!

(Watch out for timmyabs comments on this!)

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< Message edited by Telemecus -- 1/14/2020 3:10:05 PM >


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Subject: 2x3+ 017+ Axis F2 Fightersg - 1/14/2020 4:42:08 PM   
Crackaces


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------------------------------------
T017+ Axis F2 Fighters



Our F2 fighters, which have not been swapped for a while, are starting to max out on morale and experience is climbing to match - although this airgroup, which was latest to arrive is trailing behind.




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Subject: 2x3+ 017 Axis Air Checklist - 1/14/2020 5:18:33 PM   
Crackaces


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Telemecus introduces me to femtomangment .. This implies much greater detail than say "micromanagement" ... The size of a gold atom's nucleus is about 9 femtometers ..
------------------------------------
T017 Axis Air End Checklist

Also at the request of the new air commander I made notes on what could be done by an air commander for their go at the end of a turn. Below is the result:-

Air Go Checklist

END
i) Final air recon: Raise detection levels for multi turn tracking or to increase interdiction
-airbases can be raised to detection level 2
-units in clear terrain to 4 which means a two-thirds probability they will at least be seen in out line next turn and more interdiction
-units in other terrain close to ours to 2 (half as good as the ones in clear - debatable if this is useful)
ii) Industry bombing: heavy industry or other targets left for end
iii) Sending airgroups to reserve (where airgroups are still unused recycle them through reserve is a good idea)
iv) Final airbase moves (e.g. to safety in enemy turn, to where needed for air defence, interdiction, ground support in enemy turn)
v) General call up of aircraft from national reserve (to where needed in enemy turn and to airbases where you want fuel/ammo/supply/support in your next turn)
vi) Air Doctrine for Soviet phase (where this can be changed)
vii) Switch all airgroups to both day and night missions
-but PZL bombers to nights (they are too precious to waste on interdiction)
-Brewsters to nights (same reason)

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2x3+ 017 Soviet Air - 1/15/2020 12:07:52 PM   
Beria


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T017 Soviet Air

The Soviet Team has a new air commander this turn who makes a "team protocol" for us too!

quote:

Each Ground Commander is responsible for their own Tactical Air Operations and moving the Air Bases that belong to each Front. However, do not move Long Range Air Command bases, these are directly under the Air Marshal. Here are some pointers from one of our previous Air Marshals:

* If you ever attack anything, bomb the hex twice beforehand.

* Keep airbases around 5 hexes behind your front line, unless it is clear that that area will be overrun.

* Bunch your airbases up as close to each other as possible; mutual fighter protection.

* At the end of your turn, bomb all tank/mech units twice, and any threatening infantry units twice as much as possible.

* For bombing missions, don't do the auto mode: Hold shift, then right click the hex you want to bomb. That way you can choose which air units will take part. More than 200 bombers per attack is not that efficient. Il-2 are better against mech/tank units. Level bombers better against infantry.

* If it is likely that the Germans will use air supply in an area, make sure that bases with fighters with miles left in them are close by as much as possible.

* Only aircraft attached to a front can fly ground support for that front. So, within your command, make sure that each front has some air units, and that they are within range.

* You are free to transfer air regiments within and between the Bases and Fronts under your command to your liking. Try to maintain the following Air Base organization when possible:

IAD - Fighters AB
BAD - Bombers AB
DBAD - Long Range Bombers AB
TBAB - Heavy Bombers AB
SAD/VVS/PVO - Mixed (All types of AC) AB
VVS-ChF - Mixed Black Sea AB
VVS-KBF - Mixed Baltic AB

At the time of writing this report we have 2541 Fighters, 721 Tactical Bombers, 1955 Level Bombers, 166 Recon and 95 Transport aircraft, 5478 in total.

Current distribution of SAF Regiments is listed below.



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< Message edited by Beria -- 1/15/2020 12:08:20 PM >


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RE: 2x3+ 017 Soviet - 1/15/2020 12:26:20 PM   
Beria


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T017 Soviet

quote:

Soviet Supreme Commander
files will be with us by tomorrow, the axis team said....They ended their message with "Good Luck" .....
that is quite troublesome.



quote:

Soviet Centre Commander
No German has yet crossed the Volga.
The Germans are massing on the other side in the Yaroslavl sector.
Mud is forecasted for next week, if that happens
we should be able to hold them back.


quote:

Soviet South Commander
They have so much territory, I fear an attack on Gorky could be a very real possibility!
An attack at Rostov to the Don river would be easier for then and make it easier to contain the Southern front.


quote:

Axis Supreme Commander
not one ground attack in their whole turn
37 ground bombings and 75 observations


quote:

Soviet Supreme Commander
USSR will transform into a triumvirate. All three Marshals will discusss between themselves on what move to do is best.
But here are my orders ...


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< Message edited by Beria -- 1/15/2020 12:28:03 PM >


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RE: 2x3+ 017 Soviet - 1/15/2020 12:30:41 PM   
Telemecus


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Beria
quote:

Soviet Supreme Commander
USSR will transform into a triumvirate. All three Marshals will discusss between themselves on what move to do is best.
But here are my orders ...



This democracy is approved by Stalin



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2x3+ 017 Soviet North Ground Bombing - 1/15/2020 12:34:16 PM   
Beria


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T017 Soviet North Ground Bombing

quote:

Axis Supreme Commander
They have gone mad bombing the Finns - their air commander certainly has it in for them!
We can now use all those very short range Finnish fighters that would not get used otherwise




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2x3+ 017 Soviet Moscow Bombing - 1/15/2020 12:36:48 PM   
Beria


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T017 Soviet Moscow Bombing

quote:

Soviet Air Commander
Make sure when you do air attacks that they have fighter escort. This turn I made one false move with an unescorted bombing mission, result = disaster.




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< Message edited by Beria -- 1/15/2020 12:37:22 PM >


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2x3+ 017 Soviet Moscow - 1/15/2020 12:39:06 PM   
Beria


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T017 Soviet Moscow

quote:

Soviet Centre Commander
Looks like the Germans are digging in across the entire front. 40 miles east of Moscow they are building a proper fortified defensive line.



quote:

Soviet South Commander
Recommend city of Murom be fortified, it will be hard to build a fort with mud but at least over a level 1 fort...


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RE: 2x3+ 017 Soviet - 1/15/2020 1:43:48 PM   
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Telemecus

quote:

ORIGINAL: Beria
quote:

Soviet Supreme Commander
USSR will transform into a triumvirate. All three Marshals will discusss between themselves on what move to do is best.
But here are my orders ...



This democracy is approved by Stalin



Stalin approved this, too.




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RE: 2x3+ 017 Soviet - 1/15/2020 1:53:42 PM   
Telemecus


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Sleeping on the floor is the new in thing! Everyone in the Soviet Union does it and likes it too by order of Comrade Stalin.

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2x3+ 017 Soviet Voronezh Pocket Air Supply - 1/15/2020 3:59:24 PM   
Beria


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T017 Soviet Voronezh Pocket Air Supply


quote:

Axis Supreme Commander
We can predict where they will fly now and try to build up heavy air losses for them there.
A lot of supply planes flown in though, we still have too little forward fighter cover.


quote:

Axis Air Commander
Did our fighters intercept ?


quote:

Axis Air Commander
Yes. Hungarians did a good job too


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< Message edited by Beria -- 1/15/2020 4:00:40 PM >


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2x3+ 017 Soviet Ground Bombing Airbases - 1/15/2020 5:04:32 PM   
Beria


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T017 Soviet Ground Bombing Airbases

Bombing of an airbase - but one without aircraft


quote:

Axis Supreme Commander
they are now attacking our airbases - but with ground bombing not airbase bombing
are they aware - we will let them know


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< Message edited by Beria -- 1/15/2020 5:05:30 PM >


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2x3+ 017 Soviet Recon - 1/16/2020 1:14:12 PM   
Beria


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T017 Soviet Recon

quote:

Axis Supreme Commander
they even reconned as far as Kiev





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RE: 2x3+ 017 Soviet Recon - 1/16/2020 1:15:59 PM   
Telemecus


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Beria
T017 Soviet Recon
quote:

Axis Supreme Commander
they even reconned as far as Kiev



And I am still asking why!?


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2x3+ 017 Soviet Stalingrad Rail Pinch - 1/16/2020 1:23:05 PM   
Beria


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T017 Soviet Stalingrad Rail Pinch

quote:

Soviet South Commander
with out a functioning rail east of the Volga.





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2x3+ 017 Soviet Cavalry Corps Training Programme And Skis - 1/16/2020 1:25:28 PM   
Beria


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T017 Soviet Cavalry Corps Training Programme And Skis

quote:

Soviet South Commander
Supreme commander, Comrades, we need to start preparing the Cavalry for the winter offensive, the Cavalry corps will be our most reliable mobile unit for this winter offensive and for all of 1942. As the regular tank corps that will be available in April 1942 will be kind of crap for a tank division standard, and pathetic if compared to a German panzer division.

What I recommend, is effective immediately during the mud, we must place all Cavalry formations far away from the front line, replaced by rifle brigades if possible,
and set in refit until they can form in to Cavalry corps in December, preferably, we should place the divisions in the Center Area, south of the Oka river so they can be distributed easily to any front. It's imperative that we do this as soon as possible, there seams to be a hard coded rule in the production system: only 200 cavalry squads can be created per logistic phase, for exe: During the refit phase, even if all the cavalry divisions are on refit and they all demand cavalry squads, exactly 200 cavalry squads will be created, and then during the regular replacement phase, again only 200 cavalry squads can be created.

In other words, failure to prepare our cav formations could mean we won't have enough Cav Corps to spreed out in vital sectors during the important December month, thus our offensive will lack the needed punch. With these good formations we can even perform successful hasty attacks on German infantry regiments!

Paired with this, we can count on a special Support Unit for this winter occasion, the sky battalion, if you check the manual, it states that this small SU can gain up to 3 times its original CV in battle during blizzard! Excellent to attach to the cav corps, what makes it a great efficient SU is also the fact is light on manpower and armaments, just less then 700 men total with few mortars. The only downside is that it's only possible to recruit it in November, thus only 3 effective turns of training. Even a quite depleted with relatively few Cavalry squads yet it still has 10 CV!


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2x3+ 017 Soviet Arrivals - 1/16/2020 1:26:58 PM   
Beria


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T017 Soviet Arrivals

quote:

Soviet South Commander
special attention should be given to the fully man rifle divisions that will arrive during the mud and snow. these are high morale, experience units, their placement for an offensive will be crucial, those of note in the next 3-4 turns are:

65th rifle division.
413th rifle
415th rifle
239th rifle
372nd rifle
17th Mountain cavlary division.

for turn 22, 6 great rifle division will arrive! but this will be way up in snow.
366th rifle
382nd ridle
390th rifle
385th rifle
387th rifle
391st rifle

and of course all naval rifle brigades, with high exp and morale, a very efficient use of command points.


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2x3+ 001-017 Axis Review - 1/16/2020 2:49:34 PM   
Telemecus


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T001-017 Axis Review

I think it is fair to say we had a stonking summer 1941 campaign.

Inspite of having faced a near total disaster on turn 1, we never looked back afterwards. We ended up with Leningrad, Moscow and Voronezh - only Rostov escaped us from the main 1941 objectives. We got lots of industry including key factories from Moscow. A stream of big pockets were created between North Ukraine and Tambov, around the Landbridge and in Moscow - and all of the armies sent to Leningrad for its defence were cut off by bombing of its port of Osinovets. But we suspect the actual manpower and equipment captured was less than would be expected from other such unit hauls in other games.

The alternative southern opening did not work in the way we planned. But I think just by being different and shaking things up it had a dramatic effect. The Soviet side massively reinforced the sector and held up to the border only to see many of those units surrounded and destroyed.

No players actually had to be replaced, so we do have the same individuals who started turn 1 even if their positions had to change. And the other team members who rated themselves as inexperienced could now certainly be said to be very capable. The team started with a very structured approach of team allocations and a protocol. But once a working pattern got going we found we could start disorganising and got the game going with even faster turns, with team members being able to co-ordinate between themselves in for example making the Voronezh pocket, although worries over team work have appeared. Air power however for the most part was not well co-ordinated across the team, although having someone primarily responsible for it should change that.

We are now facing the mud period of Raspusitsa followed by a limited snow offensive arranged in the south. But after that the dreaded blizzard. However already we have arranged for many of our motorised units and highest morale infantry to be safely ensconced in winter garrisons and so preserved for the 1942 campaign. Our 1941 summer campaign has left us with a large buffer of territory of little value we can give up to let our opponents run out of steam on. And in front of Moscow we are already preparing a harder stop line to the rear of our frontlines. We are ready.

quote:

Axis Commander
For how many pockets we have made 3.5 mil seems low, I am guessing that is from them not fiddling with TOE's ?
So all hauls are averagely spread


or just we went so fast we were pocketing shells?

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2x3+ 001-017 Soviet Review - 1/16/2020 3:04:03 PM   
Beria


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Ok so it did go so well for us - but 1941 never does! But reading back on the time I think the Soviet team ends the period streets ahead of where it started. it has started to ask the right questions, decide on the trade-offs that exist now even if they do not become apparent in many turns, and are starting to decide what to lose rather than having it decided for them. Choices are being made about industry, units and airgroups to be created and logistics and training behind. it is not just painting arrows in a map and praying they come true anymore.

Although I know @Telemecus you did not touch a unit or airgroup for any battle, nevertheless having an experienced player in team as teacher supremo made the difference. I am guessing why the noobs of turn 1 are now the pros of turn 17! :) What the Soviet side above all has needed was stability. but with 10 players in 17 turns that has been lacking. Until now perhaps?

Big decisions have been made to put more emphasis on evacuating heavy industry over arms. We will find out if that paid off later in the game, but only if we survive earlier in the game with the arms shortage. But at least with our new units and cavalry training programme we are starting to build Red Army 2.0. We have held on to Rostov and have the blizzard to look forward to.

< Message edited by Beria -- 1/16/2020 6:44:26 PM >


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RE: 2x3+ 017 Soviet Arrivals - 1/16/2020 3:20:29 PM   
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Soviet TOE Turn 17




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RE: 2x3+ 001-017 Soviet Review - 1/16/2020 8:51:10 PM   
corbon

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Beria

Ok so it did go so well for us - but 1941 never does! But reading back on the time I think the Soviet team ends the period streets ahead of where it started. it has started to ask the right questions, decide on the trade-offs that exist now even if they do not become apparent in many turns, and are starting to decide what to lose rather than having it decided for them. Choices are being made about industry, units and airgroups to be created and logistics and training behind. it is not just painting arrows in a map and praying they come true anymore.

Sounds like almost every High Command in history fighting every war! Trained for one thing, turns out that the real thing is something somewhat different, got to learn on the job.

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