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Example of US fighter training and how to use it

 
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Example of US fighter training and how to use it - 1/10/2020 4:40:36 PM   
Sardaukar


Posts: 9847
Joined: 11/28/2001
From: Finland/Israel
Status: offline 		Note few things:

1. Unit is permanently restricted (Attached to HQ is white, not clickable yellow). Thus, it's not much use otherwise, unless there is an invasion of West Coast. That is usually unlikely.

2. It is set to draw pilots from Replacement pool. Those are ones with skills 20s-30s. So, you want to train those to up to par, not to train already trained pilots. Though sometimes that can be beneficial too. Training without combat will get appropriate skills to low 70s. That is very well-trained pilot. Fighter pilots do well as front line replacements when Exp is 50+, Air and Def are around 70.

3. Unit is set to NOT to upgrade. Why would you want the unit to upgrade to latest and greatest when those planes should go to your frontline units. These train as well in worst "crates" available as well as in new shiny P-38G (in this case they came with P-38F). Range is set to 0 to lessen operational losses. They train as well just near air base than flying around the continent.

4. Train % is 100. Obviously you want them to fly as much as they can. If you lose few because of fatigue...well, they are rookies and would not have done well in combat anyways It's not like you are losing your aces.




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< Message edited by Sardaukar -- 1/10/2020 4:43:41 PM >

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Post #: 1
RE: Example of US fighter training and how to use it - 1/10/2020 4:52:26 PM   
Sardaukar


Posts: 9847
Joined: 11/28/2001
From: Finland/Israel
Status: offline 		Pilots:

Here you see pilots of unit that has just been emptied to Reserve apart from squadron leader. Those in red cannot be sent away.

Under list is Release pilots. Obviously you'd want to release Most experienced. Note that To Pool should be Reserve, not Group. Remember to change that. Otherwise pilots will stay in unit, just inactive.

Rinse and repeat when you have trained new patch of guys. One can also put more pilots to group than planes, but I try to avoid late war running out of pilot slots. While there are 64 000 pilot slots (I think), one can reach that by maxing pilots in most units and dumping lot into reserve pool too.








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"To meaningless French Idealism, Liberty, Fraternity and Equality...we answer with German Realism, Infantry, Cavalry and Artillery" -Prince von Bülov, 1870-


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RE: Example of US fighter training and how to use it - 1/10/2020 5:02:08 PM   
Scott_USN

 

Posts: 715
Joined: 6/2/2004
From: Eagle River, Alaska USA
Status: offline 		The Float planes that show up in LA are awesome for training future naval pilots. I usually set them to 100% Naval Attack training, later there are several groups and can train other things even sweep. They are all waiting for the Dauntless 5s to roll out as far as I know.

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RE: Example of US fighter training and how to use it - 1/10/2020 5:05:56 PM   
Sardaukar


Posts: 9847
Joined: 11/28/2001
From: Finland/Israel
Status: offline 		The same works with other types of units too. You just change their training mission. You can train Army pilots in Army units, USMC in USMC..and so on. Logical.

You can even train carrier pilots with short range USN floatplanes. And patrol plane pilots. Only Torpedo bomber pilots are hard to come by since most planes cannot carry them. Thus no torpedo training...but there are remedies for that. Either you pull out front line torpedo plane unit for training and remeber to check "Use Torpedoes"..or even more preferably..you get those CVEs with VT unit and use that. I don't remember if later war CVEs with VR-units (VRF, VRB, VRT) as replacement units come with torpedo bombers, but if they do, use them to train torpedo pilots.

Another thing is..pilots are not tracked for Carrier Capable/Trained, only units are. So, even when your reserve pilot has been trained with OSU-3 Kingfisher float plane and never been abroad CV before, he can if he goes to unit that is Carrier Capable/Trained. Bit of abstraction there.

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RE: Example of US fighter training and how to use it - 1/11/2020 5:13:27 PM   
geofflambert


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From: St. Louis
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sardaukar

Range is set to 0 to lessen operational losses. They train as well just near air base than flying around the continent.



Note on this. More important than operational losses, fatigue is greatly reduced by making the range 0. Fatigue is a bad thing in training or at the front, and is the primary cause of those operational losses.

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RE: Example of US fighter training and how to use it - 1/11/2020 5:25:59 PM   
geofflambert


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From: St. Louis
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sardaukar

Pilots:

Here you see pilots of unit that has just been emptied to Reserve apart from squadron leader. Those in red cannot be sent away.



Actually, the pilots in red can be and should be sent away. If you have one red guy, he is the flying commander of the squadron. If you are releasing pilots to the Reserve you may see some other pilots turn red, they are being designated as possible successors to the first red guy. Anyways, both at the front and in the rear, red guys are a pain in the tuckus. Simply change the commander of the squadron to a desk jockey and all the red guys disappear. They will get lumped in with the rest of the trainees and have to learn an effing trade like everyone else. The desk jockeys in commander selection do not have an *s next to them in the list. Whether a training squadron or an active one I want for a commander (if I can afford it) 60+ in aggressiveness and at least 50 in air skills. Transport sqdr. commanders and in some cases patrol sqdr. commanders could do well to have less than 60 in aggressiveness but still keep it at 50 or above.

If you like, each time you get rid of a red guy, say "He's dead Jim".

< Message edited by geofflambert -- 1/11/2020 6:00:12 PM >

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RE: Example of US fighter training and how to use it - 1/11/2020 6:27:15 PM   
RangerJoe


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quote:

If you like, each time you get rid of a red guy, say "He's dead Jim".


As a Gorn, you should like that.

Actually, having some talented pilots stashed in your training units should help by raising the overall average. That should help those below the unit average in that skill increase faster.

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RE: Example of US fighter training and how to use it - 1/11/2020 7:49:10 PM   
dr.hal


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quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe
Actually, having some talented pilots stashed in your training units should help by raising the overall average. That should help those below the unit average in that skill increase faster.

This is a "something" that I've never been sure of. How do more talented pilots impact training of rookies? There is a lot said about TRADOC or the training command and it's utility or futility. I've never had a clear answer based on game mechanics (tested or otherwise). I've read that sending pilots to training command is a waste of talent, AND I've read it's a good idea. Not sure. And I've heard both about keeping talented and experienced pilots attached to home based training squadrons. But again no fully accepted answer. Not sure if there is one. Which I guess is ok, as it's a game after all!!!!!

< Message edited by dr.hal -- 1/14/2020 9:33:19 PM >

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RE: Example of US fighter training and how to use it - 1/11/2020 9:04:16 PM   
Sardaukar


Posts: 9847
Joined: 11/28/2001
From: Finland/Israel
Status: offline 		I do not find need to release those "red" guys. It's rarely worth it unless having some really extraordinary one..in bad or good.

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RE: Example of US fighter training and how to use it - 1/11/2020 10:12:24 PM   
PaxMondo


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Status: offline 		+1

PP's are just too precious

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RE: Example of US fighter training and how to use it - 1/11/2020 10:45:58 PM   
Ian R

 

Posts: 3420
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From: Cammeraygal Country
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sardaukar

I do not find need to release those "red" guys. It's rarely worth it unless having some really extraordinary one..in bad or good.


Unfortunately, when an air group arrives with a "random leader", the exe seems to go to the bottom of the list and pick some wood duck with low aggression and/or low inspiration. Often times Pilot Officer wood duck is also red/asterisked flying CO. Even better if you can somehow get PO Duck KIA because the computer keeps picking him. (At least that is how it seems).

It helps if you can clean them out on arrival, but eventually the allied player really needs to pay attention to the leaders of the B25/B24/B29 groups. Some of them get decent pre-assigned chaps, but they don't all get leaders the likes of Tibbets and Sweeny. They are not hard to find - pull up the "global" bomber list and examine the ones with their morale in the toilet.

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RE: Example of US fighter training and how to use it - 1/12/2020 1:46:02 AM   
geofflambert


Posts: 14863
Joined: 12/23/2010
From: St. Louis
Status: offline 		Transport squadrons show up with a fighter pilot (high 70s air) in command.

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RE: Example of US fighter training and how to use it - 1/14/2020 8:46:25 PM   
rustysi


Posts: 7472
Joined: 2/21/2012
From: LI, NY
Status: offline
quote:

This is a "something" that I've never been sure of. How does more talented pilots impact training of rookies.


Pretty sure its covered in the 'Pilot Addendum' file. Something to the effect that the pilot in training will gain a point based on the average experience of the unit (and of course 'die rolls'). Therefore a 'trained' pilot will raise the units' experience and train it a bit quicker. Does it work? Don't know. It is a good place to hid some 'trained' pilots for later air frames, if nothing else.

quote:

I've read that sending pilots to training command is a waste of talent, AND I've read it's a good idea.


This depends on the player and his/her style.

Used to be that having pilots in the TRACOM advanced trainees through the training cycle (1st 12 months), but that rarely occurs any longer. Don't know why. In my current game its only happened in one month. Under some old patches it happened often. Maybe the intent was to slow it down some and it went too far. Could be that another software change had an effect upon it too.

Again, at any rate some players, like myself, like to 'hide' some experienced pilots for the late war models planes.

quote:

+1

PP's are just too precious


Yup. I don't swap out air leaders unless its absolutely necessary. Let the leader fly.

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In every party there is one member who by his all-too-devout pronouncement of the party principles provokes the others to apostasy. Nietzsche

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RE: Example of US fighter training and how to use it - 1/14/2020 9:39:24 PM   
dr.hal


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From: Covington LA via Montreal!
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quote:

ORIGINAL: rustysi
Used to be that having pilots in the TRACOM advanced trainees through the training cycle (1st 12 months), but that rarely occurs any longer. Don't know why. In my current game its only happened in one month. Under some old patches it happened often. Maybe the intent was to slow it down some and it went too far. Could be that another software change had an effect upon it too.


The water is still very muddy. Anyone do any testing or study on this issue? Rusty I assume you're playing the latest version of the game, is that right? Official version or beta?

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RE: Example of US fighter training and how to use it - 1/14/2020 10:36:36 PM   
rustysi


Posts: 7472
Joined: 2/21/2012
From: LI, NY
Status: offline 		1126b.

_____________________________

It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once. Hume

In every party there is one member who by his all-too-devout pronouncement of the party principles provokes the others to apostasy. Nietzsche

Cave ab homine unius libri. Ltn Prvb

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RE: Example of US fighter training and how to use it - 1/14/2020 11:12:32 PM   
RangerJoe


Posts: 13450
Joined: 11/16/2015
From: My Mother, although my Father had some small part.
Status: offline 		I have seen it. It is important for Japan to speed up the training as it saves 5 Heavy Industry per pilot for every month saved. It is a good place to stash pilots until you need the experts for night fighters and/or sweeps against the late war Allied fighters.

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I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

“Illegitemus non carborundum est (“Don’t let the bastards grind you down”).”
― Julia Child


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Post #: 16
RE: Example of US fighter training and how to use it - 1/15/2020 2:50:57 AM   
Ian R

 

Posts: 3420
Joined: 8/1/2000
From: Cammeraygal Country
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quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe
It is a good place to stash pilots until you need the experts for night fighters and/or sweeps against the late war Allied fighters.


I seem to recall you need to put them in in multiples of some number, so that they will have an effect. Maybe it was 50?



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RE: Example of US fighter training and how to use it - 1/15/2020 4:01:42 AM   
Ian R

 

Posts: 3420
Joined: 8/1/2000
From: Cammeraygal Country
Status: offline 		Scrub 50, it's sets of 10.

Very old post from MM, and not sure if still applicable:

quote:

There is some behind the scenes action with training of raw pilots and TRACOM.

The number of TRACOM guys can increase the month's EXP rating of the raw pilots.
If the new EXP exceeds the national EXP, then a random number of pilots will 'graduate' early.
When this happens, you get a message "instructors accelerate training of" in the operation report.

In general, this jump is only going to occur in the last month of training, unless you add a huge number of pilots to TRACOM.

A rough guide is: for every 10 in TRACOM (of the correct nationality), the monthly EXP might be increased by one.

Adjustments to the pilot training happens on the first day of the month.
The monthly EXP increase of the raw pilots (ignoring TRACOM effect) is a random amount (-2 to +2).
The new monthly EXP starts out as an average of the pilots in the month and those moving from the previous month.


< Message edited by michaelm -- 12/13/2009 2:36:38 AM >


https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2317995&mpage=1&key=TRACOM

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RE: Example of US fighter training and how to use it - 1/15/2020 4:13:41 AM   
Ian R

 

Posts: 3420
Joined: 8/1/2000
From: Cammeraygal Country
Status: offline 		Also, an important point from the Elf (Same thread). I understand him to be referring to the raw pilots in the training pool as in the TRACOM, with the experienced 'pilot instructors' being the 81 plus guys you send to TRACOM.


quote:

ORIGINAL: TheElf

I can't speak to the specifics of your game (losses and such), but EXP is not meant to increase at all due to TRACOM. EXP will generally remain at the National average. Why? Because their training is done. The TRACOMs all have a fully trained "standard". In other words after a year or so of training the IJNAF expects a product that meets minimum requirements to move on to Combat planes. That is the national average you see.

HOWEVER...when your losses become excessive and you begin to dip into your reserves, the additional pilot instructors providing that extra "oomph" are there to hold up your National average, or following a dip in average EXP due to a lost war you might re-establish the National Average after seeing a precipitous drop.

EXP is NOT meant to ever go higher than the National Average. Only be maintained or the rate of replacements accelerated to fill holes in operational units. That is the Spirit of the TRACOM.

Once replacement pilots leave the TRACOM, further training must occur on map.


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RE: Example of US fighter training and how to use it - 1/15/2020 4:18:28 AM   
Ian R

 

Posts: 3420
Joined: 8/1/2000
From: Cammeraygal Country
Status: offline 		Finally, for ease of reference (also from the Elf):

quote:

... TRACOM was originally designed for the IJ player because historically the norm was that the Allies were in fact swimming in well trained replacements. So much so that by 1943 they realized they had a surplus and began trimming back the fat. If you [ALLIED PLAYER] are not using the feature then that is to be expected. Hardcoded replacement rates SHOULD suffice.


Hope that helps (as long as it didn't change somewhere down the track).

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RE: Example of US fighter training and how to use it - 1/15/2020 3:31:03 PM   
BBfanboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Ian R

Finally, for ease of reference (also from the Elf):

quote:

... TRACOM was originally designed for the IJ player because historically the norm was that the Allies were in fact swimming in well trained replacements. So much so that by 1943 they realized they had a surplus and began trimming back the fat. If you [ALLIED PLAYER] are not using the feature then that is to be expected. Hardcoded replacement rates SHOULD suffice.


Hope that helps (as long as it didn't change somewhere down the track).


Back when The Elf wrote that, players were IJ playing the game with little knowledge of how to maximize the industry. Now, with Player-Defined Upgrades ON, the IJ player can produce sophisticated aircraft far earlier than historic, and run a very good training program for the pilots. This increases Allied losses and pilots in some service branches and national pools can become very scarce.

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RE: Example of US fighter training and how to use it - 1/15/2020 4:46:42 PM   
Ian R

 

Posts: 3420
Joined: 8/1/2000
From: Cammeraygal Country
Status: offline 		So, yet another example of lets let the IJ get away with all sorts of ahistorical stuff, but woe betide anyone who has the temerity to suggest the allies can react to non-historical circumstances non-historically.

Good summary?

< Message edited by Ian R -- 1/16/2020 9:57:56 AM >

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RE: Example of US fighter training and how to use it - 1/15/2020 6:38:04 PM   
Sardaukar


Posts: 9847
Joined: 11/28/2001
From: Finland/Israel
Status: offline 		My use of TRACOM is to stash aces to throw into front line combat when needed.

So, my use has nothing much to do with training but storage.

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RE: Example of US fighter training and how to use it - 1/15/2020 9:47:50 PM   
rustysi


Posts: 7472
Joined: 2/21/2012
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Ian R


quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe
It is a good place to stash pilots until you need the experts for night fighters and/or sweeps against the late war Allied fighters.


I seem to recall you need to put them in in multiples of some number, so that they will have an effect. Maybe it was 50?




10

_____________________________

It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once. Hume

In every party there is one member who by his all-too-devout pronouncement of the party principles provokes the others to apostasy. Nietzsche

Cave ab homine unius libri. Ltn Prvb

(in reply to Ian R)
Post #: 24
RE: Example of US fighter training and how to use it - 1/17/2020 4:50:33 AM   
boxof9


Posts: 43
Joined: 1/11/2015
From: Ohio
Status: offline 		I've read many times recommendations to set training squadrons to zero to reduce operational losses. It seems to me that this wouldn't be very historical. A training squadron wouldn't simply fly in a 40 mile box around a base. Fighters would fly to gunnery ranges and bombers would make cross county flights.

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RE: Example of US fighter training and how to use it - 1/17/2020 6:19:02 AM   
Kursk1943

 

Posts: 445
Joined: 3/15/2014
From: Bavaria in Southern Germany
Status: offline 		One has to realize that this game is not an exact copy of all historical facts, but a game with many compromises. One could complain about it (as I did in former times) or just accept the facts. So advice and hints from the most cherished and experienced fellow players are not based on historical facts, but on their experience with the game over many years.

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RE: Example of US fighter training and how to use it - 1/17/2020 2:04:09 PM   
Kull


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quote:

ORIGINAL: boxof9

I've read many times recommendations to set training squadrons to zero to reduce operational losses. It seems to me that this wouldn't be very historical. A training squadron wouldn't simply fly in a 40 mile box around a base. Fighters would fly to gunnery ranges and bombers would make cross county flights.


As with many other issues, the player has some degree of control here. Simply set your training %, training range, and training altitude to levels that will begin to ramp up the loss rates. It can be a self-imposed rule, sort of like the way some folks won't load fuel in xAKs.

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RE: Example of US fighter training and how to use it - 1/17/2020 5:10:59 PM   
RangerJoe


Posts: 13450
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Status: offline 		The aircraft would also have emergency airfields to land on, get repaired, then make it back to base but that does not happen in the game.

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I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

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RE: Example of US fighter training and how to use it - 1/17/2020 5:43:33 PM   
castor troy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy


quote:

ORIGINAL: Ian R

Finally, for ease of reference (also from the Elf):

quote:

... TRACOM was originally designed for the IJ player because historically the norm was that the Allies were in fact swimming in well trained replacements. So much so that by 1943 they realized they had a surplus and began trimming back the fat. If you [ALLIED PLAYER] are not using the feature then that is to be expected. Hardcoded replacement rates SHOULD suffice.


Hope that helps (as long as it didn't change somewhere down the track).


Back when The Elf wrote that, players were IJ playing the game with little knowledge of how to maximize the industry. Now, with Player-Defined Upgrades ON, the IJ player can produce sophisticated aircraft far earlier than historic, and run a very good training program for the pilots. This increases Allied losses and pilots in some service branches and national pools can become very scarce.



you have to do something seriously wrong though when playing the Allied and being drained by the IJ player when he only gets 300 pilots a month (exact number depending on the different mods) which he has to train up. That's the maximum, no more pilots, no matter how many one "could" train, there aren't more coming as replacements. Have fun producing a thousand aircraft per month when there's the limit of 300 pilots. In total it doesn't even benefit a player to produce the HISTORICAL number of aircraft that Japan built because you don't get enough pilots to bring them into the air. Of course the types of aircraft are different but the numbers are actually lower than real life. So complaining about the training is mood IMO.

< Message edited by castor troy -- 1/17/2020 5:46:30 PM >

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Post #: 29
RE: Example of US fighter training and how to use it - 1/17/2020 6:22:46 PM   
RangerJoe


Posts: 13450
Joined: 11/16/2015
From: My Mother, although my Father had some small part.
Status: offline 		Just because you lose the plane does not mean that you lose the pilot.

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Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

“Illegitemus non carborundum est (“Don’t let the bastards grind you down”).”
― Julia Child


(in reply to castor troy)
Post #: 30
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