T12 - taking my tanks for a walk

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All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> Gary Grigsby's War in the West >> After Action Reports >> T12 - taking my tanks for a walk

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T12 - taking my tanks for a walk - 1/14/2020 6:17:19 AM

loki100

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T12 � 18 September 1943

Ouch, but hard to avoid with an Adriatic landing. The alternative around Salerno doesn't really get me very far as its easy to block with the rough terrain. In theory at least, this gets me a tank battle and to push the front north of Foggia.

Equally painful is 91 air groups grounded using my usual rules. Even worse 41 of these were from Tactical Air so I decided that as a special measure anything over 45 morale can fly from that command. Next turn I have a useful set of converted FB coming back into use.

Much better news, Taranto has revolted and is now an open port (this tends to happen if it is left ungarrisoned), so that means my airpower can ignore the ports and go for the railyards and exposed German units.

Also the axis rail net south of Benevento is a mess due to partisan attacks so I stop my interdiction missions around Rome � for now I have more immediate demands.

So Italy is now all about the fight in the South. I'm putting a lot of naval air into clearing the narrows between Italy and Albania. Each particularly interesting German stack gets its very own 'unit' mission as does that infantry division that XXX Corps attacked last turn. A breakout there, plus Taranto being available will get the front moving � till the next stalemate.

The B-17s are still doing the railyards � as noted the German rail net here is a mess due to my friendly partisans but the depot at Foggia is important (and depot efficiency is tied to the working size of the depot).

NW Europe, not much, Tactical Air back over Belgium, the main B-17 raid goes for Frankfurt, the specialist B-24 for the Tigers at Kassel. Both Bomber Command groups over the Ruhr. Sort of running out of imagination here at the moment.

Outcomes, the specialist BC raid just on Duisberg paid off (for some reason the generic Ruhr attacks have missed this out). Fighter Command managed to catch a few unwary German fighters.

The Kassel raid claims a lot of damage to the Tiger production and the Frankfurt raid took out the Mainz truck production (or at least that is what they claim).

Since the focus in Italy was hitting the Pzr formations, here are the ground losses in the air phase. That is a bit over-stated as it includes losses in the German ground phase (more on that below) but it is some extra tanks gone (and there will be disruptions and damage in addition).

Find the problem with Taranto, some idiot has bombed the port to destruction so I can't unload there � not even a regiment. Also I couldn't flip any German airbase � I'd have moved in an airlanding formation if this had happened.

Even so, XXX Corps (& a lot of naval artillery) breaks out.

That infantry division then got hit twice more as it fell back till it routed. With that 8 Army's armour broke out, the American 1 Arm is rather exposed but it depends on how the Germans respond.

The weakness was I didn't bomb Brindisi as I hoped to take it via Taranto so there is a nasty gap in my naval control. With this in mind I shifted one of the TF to sit off the port to try and generate my own interdiction. I also didn't attack from the beach-head. 6 British Paras are rather vulnerable as a result.

I've put a fair bit of airpower into the landing but left this to auto-intercept and GS.

Last point, the Germans attacked my beach-head with what they thought were good chances to squash it.

This is the first attack and a few comments might be useful as to why it failed.

1) their DL was low, my real base CV was closer to 50 not 13;
2) They had to move to combat, now they mostly avoided the higher interdiction but that is still some fatigue/disruption;
3) naval guns are nasty � here they landed 250 hits on the German infantry those 170 disrupted elements are removed from the fight;
4) Finally my CV inflated due to the beachhead rule:

16.7.4: "Defending units on a temporary port hex, or adjacent to a temporary port hex and also adjacent to a sea hex, will have their end of combat CVs multiplied by 4 when determining whether they retreat. If they hold, but would have retreated had they not received this bonus, they will instead suffer additional losses to reflect their fighting to the last to hold the beachhead"

So my CV went from 50 to 35 (ie I lost as this was around 4.5-1) to 140. But lost elements due to disruption also cost the Germans heavily.

The good bit for the Germans was that my losses also inflated yielding a lot of VP.

< Message edited by loki100 -- 1/14/2020 6:20:37 AM >

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Post #: 31

Comparing notes - 1/14/2020 12:12:54 PM

loki100

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A wee digression

Since I like data and am always interested in comparisons, I opened Xhoel's excellent AAR. I'll use his T11 data as that maps onto the charts I put into the post at the foot of p.1.

Ground losses he reported Axis of 153,000 men, 1,600 guns and 125 tanks and Allies of 41,000 men, 110 guns and 370 tanks. Killed are 22,300 and 7,100 respectively.

We've managed Axis losses of 131,000 men, 1,450 guns and 340 tanks against Allied losses of 68,400 men, 450 guns and 700 tanks.

In their game 54,000 Axis were reported as captured, I've only managed 40,000.

The only metric were I am ahead is destroyed tanks, basically the way I use allied air power does tend to produce this outcome.

By that stage of their game, the only secondary landing had been at the south of end of Calabria (that saw little fighting), I've managed 2 very contested operations.

In the air, axis pilot kia were 1,150 and allies of 3,300. We've managed almost 1,800 axis pilots and 3,600 allied.

Axis fighter losses were 1,100, NF 190 and bomber (all types) of 290. Allied were 780 (FB), 50 (NF), 30 tactical bombers and 1,900 level bombers. Pure naval air losses were 310.

We've got Axis F-2,000; NF 190 and bombers 300. Allied of 1,120 fighters, 150 NF (remember that in Italy in particular I use the NF as longer range day escorts), 120 tactical bombers and 1,600 level bombers. Pure naval air losses are 410.

He also has a nice chart of allied losses by plane type, a few of the more important (Xhoel's numbers first):

Stirling 61 (31)
Halifax 154 (66)
Lancaster 212 (109)
Wellington 136 (160)
P38 201 (370)
B-25 50 (73)
B-26 180 (371)
B-17 890 (400)
B-24 70 (200)

He doesn't give a VP score so that makes it hard to read the pay off for the different patterns of activity.

So on the ground, I've taken huge losses for a bit more ground, the difference is that Xhoel's retreat to a line anchored on Naples was very much on his terms. On the other hand, our air war is much more brutal, I basically push my air assets as hard as I can in 1943. What is interesting is the bombers I use in small groups (B24/26) have really taken heavy losses as they can get isolated while my large B-17 cluster has had a relatively easy time of it. But my P-38s have paid a high price for protecting the bombers.

I also think its in the strategic airwar where having played this a few times works in your favour. Its not so much knowing the rules as having a bit of a feel for the feedback loops and how to pace operations.

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Post #: 32

T13A - Counting my assets - 1/15/2020 6:47:38 AM

loki100

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T13A � 25 September 1943

Since this is a bit of a transition maybe a good time to review the air OOB. As is probably clear, most tactical formations have flown south for some sun and to build up their vitamin D stocks before the British winter arrives.

FC is down to 320 fighters, mostly Spitfire V and still keeping up the pressure over the Ruhr. Bomber Command now has over 1,000 bombers about 600 Lancasters (I and III), 360 Halifax and the balance Mosquitos all protected by 150 fighters.

2 Tactical Air has been gradually swapping its planes and have ended up with a mix of Mitchells and Wellingtons. For a 2 engined bomber these both have range (1600 miles) and can carry a mix of payloads � including very heavy bombs if that is what I want.

Bulk of US planes in the UK are in 8 AAF with 1400 bombers and 240 fighters. I'm hitting shortages of P-38s but longer ranged P47s and P51s are due soon. Still quite a few B17F in use as I convert when they have to rest (and there is not that much difference in the two variants). 9 AAF is a shell but has some P47s (since I can't convert these to P38s they are also doing AS missons).

Italy I've had to reorganise on geographical lines (or you get into a real mess with having to double check almost every assignment). So Malta Air has been expanded and holds a mix of planes.

Strategic Air has a mix of 500 bombers (most B17 or B26 but some British), 120 escort fighters and 85 Mosquitos (I have these in strategic air as I often run out of AD for tactical air).

Tactical Air has 1700 planes. Nearly 800 FB (mix of roles but all relatively short range), 350 tactical bombers and 440 2 engined bombers. The P-40/Kittyhawk IV is my workhorse plane here as it combines an ok bombload with a decent range � which helps ease the pressure on the few forward airbases I have.

I have some planes deployed that are not much use as I simply can't swap them over to something more effective. In particular the P39s are kept back as defensive air cover near my main bomber bases � useful in case of something sneaky by the Luftwaffe. Just so I don't assign by mistake these are linked to Coastal Air.

But for info, here's a list of my top A2A formations. The P-38s have inflicted heavy losses in return for their own. Odd to see a number of B-17 formations so high up.

< Message edited by loki100 -- 1/15/2020 4:16:22 PM >

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T13B - the action sequel - 1/16/2020 6:12:34 AM

loki100

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T13 � 25 September 1943

VP chart makes happier reading � not least as Brindisi also revolted so I am now starting to gain a few more city points. Clearly the U-Boats will need some attention.

100 air groups out of use, not going to over-ride any of this as fortunately the Germans have disengaged from the south. Given the mess the partisans have made of their rail net I don't think they had much choice, but I'll take the lull before the battle for Foggia commences.

As a result, most of the Italian airforces have a week off, happy to leave Tactical Air to GS (not least it is also redeploying to its nice new bases). Strategic Air shifts its attention to Naples (B26s), B17s go for the railyards at Foggia and Mosquitos back to interdiction over the rail lines (I am finding this a very useful combination of plane and mission).

Northern Europe. BC all 3 groups over the Ruhr (2 with one target missions), Tactical Air around Kleve, 8 AAF B26s hits Emden (with escorts and a nearby AS), B24s return to Kassel, B17s go for a mix of U-Boats and HI at Stettin � I was a bit worried over this but its probably worth a major assault now as the weather is worsening.

Outcomes. BC claims that the Ruhr no longer exists, with serious damage from all its raids.

2 Tactical Air reports heavy damage to the smaller towns west of the Rhine.

8 AAF reports much more damage to the Tiger production (which is odd as they claimed to have blown up the factory last week), the Emden/Wilhelmshaven raid was effective (and surprisingly no German fighters). The main attack on Stettin seems to have done a lot of damage but also ran into very heavy fighter cover.

In Italy, Naples escaped without much damage and the Mosquitos reported a lot of German fighters but they still generated some interdiction on the transport routes from Napoli to Rome. The B17s flattened the rail yard at Foggia (thus reducing the depot capacity).

The good thing is I now have a better idea of where the German army is.

Not much happened in Italy, forced the surrender of a German fortified unit interdicting the coast rail to Taranto and pushed a German regiment into a pocket. The unit at Potenza will probably escape but should still net the equivalent of 3 divisions (incl the garrison at Bari).

Rest of 7 Army has landed and I've permanently motorised a couple of divisions (this really boosts my mobility and is not easy for a German player to predict how far I can move.

Getting Brindisi for free is a bonus. As a level 2 port it can be repaired in one turn with a spare TF so that gets a permanent source of supply into operation. While in the end Taranto and Bari are more important, they take time to come into usage.

So Rome comes back into view ...

Looks like the decent weather will last in Italy for a few more turns, so need to think about whether I can gamble with 8 and 7 Armies still so far south and very badly deployed if the goal is to lunge north.

Think it all depends on how the Germans are deployed for t14. I only have 2 out of the 3 potential invasions ready to go (the other will take about 3 weeks) so its gamble as I'd struggle to break out if there is serious resistance. But if the Germans are still defending Foggia-Naples then even with just a few armoured formations I can probably get Rome � and that really is the purpose of everything I do in Italy in 1943.

I have no idea where the bulk of the German bombers are, so I presume they will get fully committed to contest any invasion but I also have the Coastal Air formations free of other commitments now.

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RE: T13B - the action sequel - 1/17/2020 1:59:09 AM

LiquidSky

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A single German unit in Taranto can prevent all that partisan activity nonsense in southern Italy until the allies get close. I usually plop a fortification unit there and disband it when it's time to pull back.

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RE: T13B - the action sequel - 1/17/2020 4:12:19 AM

GloriousRuse

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Yes. I rather learned about Taranto the hard way. Live and learn...well, for me. My Pixeltruppen, less so.

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Post #: 36

T14 - Italy heats up - 1/17/2020 6:48:33 AM

loki100

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T14 � 2 October 1943

My thinking for this turn had all been about Rome - or not - with a decision reliant on if the German mobile forces were still along the Ofanto. I actually didn't expect this.

Although my deployment at the end of last turn did invite it ...

Last turns hammering of the Ruhr clearly paid off and it seems I guessed right as to where the U-Boat facilities had repaired.

Overall 75 formations resting mostly from BC and 8 AAF. But am missing a lot from Tactical Air due to their deployment to their new bases last week. Those I have can use very heavy bomb loads or something specialist (such as the Hurricane IV and their 40mm cannons � basically designed to rip apart a tank) which will partly compensate for lack of numbers. The Mosquitos stop molesting German trains and join in.

The B-17s attack to suppress Naples and I place a naval air mission off shore to close it down.

The useful part of having a forced rest with so much of tactical air is that it will come back next turn.

Malta air command commits to the Rome operation, this is all a bit hasty but the German offensive has created major problems and some interesting options. While I am blind to what they have at Rome it can't be much � especially not their elite formations. Ideally I'd like interdiction laid down over the transport routes but there we are.

Looks like the weather in Italy stays clear for next turn.

I also remain clueless as to where the German bombers are. My guess is they are all eating mortadella and polenta. I suspect they will be back bombing fish next turn.

Nothing interesting in N Europe. Had to rest the specialist sections of 8 AAF. B-17s doing trucks around Mainz (I've added a BC night mission to this raid). BC the Ruhr, Tactical Air the trucks at Antwerp.

Outcomes in NW Europe were unremarkable. BC missed Mainz completely but 8 AAF hit the main truck factories.

Bombing of the units along the Ofanto produced only limited losses, at least I know have a better idea what is around Rome � and some protection to the south. The Pzrs in Civitavecchia are obviously a worry.

My bombing missions from Sardinia-Corsica ran into fairly heavy German fighter cover which caused some losses. Mainly FB seem to evade/abort rather than get shot down in this sort of situation.

The port at Naples should be out of use and I have blocked it off as a source of naval interdiction.

Allied counter-attacks re-established communications with the cut off units. I'm going to keep them in position as I'd like to slow any German retreat and I don't think they have the capacity to repeat the encirclements. I'm assuming that 53 Br Inf will get beaten back but that will take them MP and they will still need to move back to the Ofanto through ZoC.

Clearing up the bypassed German units in the SW (its clear that there was less infantry and more FZ), first attack on Bari failed. In combination I think this will give me 2 divisions of German infantry cut off and surrendered. But first I need to isolate Bari and I have other uses for my naval assets.

Beyond that, first sighting of a defensive line at Naples � with some luck the Rome operation will bypass that (though Naples is needed for VP and to reduce naval interdiction).

All of which leads to Rome on a shoestring led by US 5 Army. At least I have had very little naval attrition. Not shown but 82 Arbn will be joining in. I have more that I can add but have kept them back in their ports for now � I want to see if I can actually push off the beaches before putting too much at sea.

As you can see, the landings are single divisions. That had the advantage of speeding preparation but the cost is in being vulnerable if the Germans can make a quick counter-attack. If this was going to be delayed till the more usual December, I intended to add a second division to at least one (pref both) stacks and a third landing site had been selected across from the Lido (that is the unit that is not ready).

My third landing division is given a new target.

Ground losses � less German tanks than I hoped for but if they are still in the open next turn they will get hit by the bulk of tactical air. Relatively few losses for me, especially after a turn of naval movements.

German truck losses now almost 18,000.

One thing I've not managed so far is many destroyed German units.

No idea how this is going to unfold. My guess is 2-3 more turns of clear weather in Italy and then the quick transition to heavy rains, but usually it clears up with cold weather in early December.

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RE: T14 - Italy heats up - 1/17/2020 5:17:09 PM

HermanGraf

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quote:

ORIGINAL: loki100

No idea how this is going to unfold. My guess is 2-3 more turns of clear weather in Italy and then the quick transition to heavy rains, but usually it clears up with cold weather in early December.

In my current game vs AI, the Allies and Germans have been subjugated to rains/snow from November 1942 until April 1943. It...has...not...stopped. I think i am losing more units to attrition than to Allied attacks. I think its finally looking to clear up in May, but it has been absolutely relentless!!!

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RE: T14 - Italy heats up - 1/17/2020 10:05:43 PM

loki100

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quote:

ORIGINAL: HermanGraf

quote:

ORIGINAL: loki100

No idea how this is going to unfold. My guess is 2-3 more turns of clear weather in Italy and then the quick transition to heavy rains, but usually it clears up with cold weather in early December.

In my current game vs AI, the Allies and Germans have been subjugated to rains/snow from November 1942 until April 1943. It...has...not...stopped. I think i am losing more units to attrition than to Allied attacks. I think its finally looking to clear up in May, but it has been absolutely relentless!!!

aye there is a random element, you get a feel for how to interpret the combination of the baseline weather and the impact of weather fronts. As the allied player the rain/mud from Feb 45 to the end of the game is sooo frustrating

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T15 - even more bombed fish - 1/17/2020 10:10:20 PM

loki100

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T15 � 9 October 1943

So opening situation. Germans in full retreat in the south after driving back 6 Armoured Div and a rough screen around my landings. Note that the paratroops added substantively to the interdiction generated by my air power. Massive German air effort at sea but they haven't closed off the sea lanes.

The immediate worry at Rome is the fresh 24 Pzr division in Civitavecchia, the rest are clearly showing the signs of a long move and heavy interdiction.

VP situation fairly predictable as my losses increase.

Good news is only 50 air groups out of operation.

So in Italy, given the German retreat I keep most of Tactical Air with no mission (by default they then get allocated to a GS mission anywhere in the AFHQ area of operations) apart from some P-40s bombing the defenders of Bari.

Try to regain naval control, some very specific bombing missions and hopefully a lot of interdiction. The Mosquitos in particular are hitting the communication link between Frosinone and Rome. My assumption is the bulk of the German army is now well north of Foggia.

In northern Europe a wider spread than recently. Bulk of BC is predictable but it also raids the U-Boats at Emden and tanks at Nuremberg. Most of 8 AAF is going for tank production in the Hannover-Magdeburg region but the B24s return to Danzig (I don't want that U-Boat plant repairing in December when I have limited capacity).

Tactical air tries something different, railyard and unit at Amiens. This is one of the German garrison cities so I know there is something there, do enough damage and I may push their cv below the threshold.

Outcomes

Well if Harris is to be believed, there will be no Panthers produced at Nuremberg for some time (that raid was a gamble at low altitude and in the day), usual results in the Ruhr and it seems as if Emden will be shut down despite a lot of German fighter cover.

8 AAF probably did enough additional damage at Danzig to remove that from the target list. It also ran into 300+ German fighters. Heavy damage to the Pzr IV production at Magdeburg (again a lot of enemy fighters), may have knocked out the vehicle and U-boat production at Hannover (again a lot of enemy fighters).

Italy, my twin goals were to generate interdiction and inflict ground damage. So bad news is my control of the invasion site is tenuous, we both have ground interdiction but I would have liked more. Hopefully the Rome depot is pretty much out of use due to damage to the Railyard.

Not much axis ground elements destroyed but hopefully more disrupted. As ever in this sort of situation, both for air and ground its about the ability to sustain operations and my hope is the German bombers are battered (even with low outright losses) so they can't sustain this.

On the ground Bari was quickly cleared as were most of the bypassed formations. HG and the Schmalz formations surrounded, pushed just beyond Foggia. Salerno captured and a TF assigned to its repair. First usage of Taranto and Brindisi for supply deliveries.

Rome, reinforce the landings with the British airlanding division.

Managed to create a bit of space first by the US paras clearing the hex opposite Rome and then a couple of rather desperate hasty attacks cleared the SS from the hex to the south of my landings.

I've managed to get a bit of space as a result and got 5 Army HQ ashore, I can feed in SU. In particular there is a lot of AA in the landing area now.

Not brilliant but in the circumstances not too bad.

I also committed my transport planes to a massive resupply effort.

Losses were fairly grim. Still very few Axis units actually destroyed.

Best news in the air is I seem to have culled the Fw190 FB, still no real damage done to their level bombers.

So �

a) I now regret this lunge, it was too early and it is going to cost me � not least a 2 hex wide landing here is too narrow (with 3 hexes at the worst you have a defensive line and easy to reinforce/swap);
b) at the moment the Germans only have one formation at Rome (24 Pzr) that can attack, it clearly can't dislodge my actual landing sites but may be enough to push one of my advanced units back. I think on its own it will struggle as the tanks managed to move inland and I am well protected by AA � but if they do dislodge one of my landing sites, its going to get very bad, very fast.
c) I might be wrong about this. In part it depends then on the state of the units moving from the south, there is interdiction in the way and they will have fatigue (they will have been moving at the limit of their capacity for 3 turns). More worrying is a few formations where I have no useful intelligence.
d) Getting that hex to the south of the current layout (ie where the other division should have been) was a huge relief as the Pzrs must have been hit by interdiction (it routed rather than just retreated).
e) Seems to depend on if the Luftwaffe can sustain last turn's massive effort. I don't believe they can, while their losses were not too high, they must have taken a lot of flak related damage.
f) returning to the good news, Tactical Air is fresh and I can deploy into the Foggia region next turn where it can mostly easily bomb around Rome.

So �

it all seems to depend on what the Germans can do in their turn, If the current perimeter holds I've probably got away with this � but at a high cost. It will then depend on how fast 7 and 8 Armies can push up.

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T16 - Rome grumbles - 1/18/2020 9:12:40 AM

loki100

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T16 � 16 October 1943

Well lets do good news/bad news

Good news it looks like the Germans couldn't manage an attack on 5 Army (I'd spent ages obsessing over a defensive layout), bad news .. VP

Also while the Luftwaffe managed to match my interdiction over the sealanes they remained open.

Also 92 air units having to rest. Bad weather means all the UK air groups are grounded. Probably predictably, almost all air commitment in Italy is to protect the landings. No real gain in the relative naval interdiction scores but some damage to their land units and the rail lines bringing in their supply.

Hermann's finest are sent to improve the agriculture on the Orkney Islands. A massive attack breaches the Biferno giving me Termoli � this is indicative of why the FJ formations are so tough to deal with. They lost but look at the damage they caused.

Overview at the end of turn, hopefully can launch some sort of attack around Naples next turn, though I suspect bad weather will stall that.

Ground losses, German numbers nicely inflated by the recent surrenders

Air losses, guess the best I can say is I am starting to make some inroads into the German bombers.

Random image of the week. You can never have too much Italian neo-realist cinema so here is Anna Magnani commenting on my recent progress.

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Post #: 41

T17 - Muddy Waters - 1/18/2020 9:33:26 PM

loki100

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T17 � 23 October 1943

I think there are times when a single picture says it all ...

so here you go for this turn:

In Italy force the naval air to fly despite the conditions as I need some interdiction.

In NW Europe back to light rain. The 2 main BC raids were effective on the Ruhr and a smaller raid on the U-Boats at Rostock seems to have done enough damage o take out that production.

B-24s attacked Stuttgart starting the process of wrecking the factories there (this is the first raid of the game), B17s did a good job over Leipzig (the VP will offset what I am shedding in Italy), the Stug produiction in Hannover was hit.

Attempt to force the Adriatic coast (despite the rain it is only light mud on the ground) failed

Other than that, looking for weak spots in the German line along the Bifano � my assumption is of a lack of reserves due to the commitment at Rome but to make anything of that I first have to break through.

Have managed to get some more depth for 5 Army. Even better that breaks the rail line to Rome. All German supplies to the Naples-Bifano defences are now going to be down the Adriatic coast. If I can get some airpower in place, then that can effectively be closed off.

and sticking to neo-realist films, here's the conditions for my brave partisans

This time the wonderful Silvana Mangano.

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T18 - Mosquito vs Train - 1/19/2020 5:12:49 AM

loki100

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T18 � 30 October 1943

So enforced rest means a lot of my planes are available as we revert to light rain and some mud.

Only 43 airgroups out of action.

The Italian missions are focussed on breaching the Bifano (now I know which hexes have infantry), targets around Rome and the rail lines down the Adriatic. I now have sole fishing rights off Rome, but allocate Coastal Command just in case.

In Europe, decide its time to really go for Berlin, weather will turn against me soon so I can afford resting formations. So a combination of a large block of BC, the B-17s and the B-24s all get to raid various targets. Rest of BC does the Ruhr and some passing Tigers at Kassel. B-26s return to Hannover.

Ruhr and Kassel (HI not the Tigers) reported badly bombed, BC actually did ok at Berlin, B-24s claim to have knocked out the Stug production, B-17s do a lot of damage � note the commitment of the Luftwaffe. Hannover raid hit HI and Stugs.

The train molesting Mosquitos delivered in Italy � can't see much freight going down that rail line.

On the ground, opt to allow 5 Army to rest but 7 and 8 breach the Bifano line. Decent recon showed me where the infantry were and each chosen hex was substantively bombed.

Second advantage of the Mosquito raids around Ancona is that a Corps scale landing should be safe, especially as the Paras generate interdiction to the south. The actual landing is just a brigade � hence the relative speed at which it was ready. Balance of the transport planes dumped supply to 5 Army.

I still have a small scattered reserve in various ports.

I continue paying a massive price. But having started this unwise approach, my only choice now is to stick to it.

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Post #: 43

RE: T17 - Muddy Waters - 1/19/2020 9:16:35 PM

bomccarthy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: loki100

I think there are times when a single picture says it all ...

so here you go for this turn:

and sticking to neo-realist films, here's the conditions for my brave partisans

Just as I started reading your post, The Bangles' Hazy Shade of Winter launched on Youtube. Seems strangely appropriate.

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Post #: 44

RE: T17 - Muddy Waters - 1/19/2020 10:57:28 PM

loki100

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quote:

ORIGINAL: bomccarthy

quote:

ORIGINAL: loki100

...

Just as I started reading your post, The Bangles' Hazy Shade of Winter launched on Youtube. Seems strangely appropriate.

Now that would improve the WiTW soundtrack

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Post #: 45

T19: Something new and shiny - 1/20/2020 7:02:48 AM

loki100

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T19 - 6 November 1943

So, the Germans actually isolate my landings on the Adriatic.

VP situation, I'm roughly covering the costs of the Italian campaign from the bombing, last turn's raids on Berlin seem to have contributed quite a lot.

Despite the fighter cover at Berlin, I have only 67 units being rested. Also a lot of air reinforcements and a brand new toy to use over Germany.

Since in Italy the Germans are pulling back along the Bifano, swap a lot of missions to interdiction. Substantial naval air to Adriatic. In NW Europe, its all about Berlin again (this time the B-24s are ordered to do a tour of the railway stations). Most of BC over the Ruhr.

Looks like a lot of heavy rain next week.

Results, amazingly Bomber Command found Berlin again, the German rail system may be worth avoiding for a week or two and the massed B-17s delivered, despite all the fighter cover.

Italy was all about placing interdiction (& getting naval control), at least the landing is no longer isolated, but I'm not going to be able to reinforce.

8 Army broke out and its motorised infantry reach the outskirts of Pescara.

Should have mentioned, I've motorised 2 infantry divisions (you have the trucks for this), till that NZ division arrives they give you a real tactical asset to supplement your tanks. As here, rested they can move quite a distance even in poor terrain.

7 Army has encircled Naples, depends on the weather but that will fall quickly (there is also a TF off the coast cutting supply).

5 Army expanded its bridgehead, exploitation attack by 1 Canadian armour just failed (1.8:1), would have made a real mess of the German supply lines.

Creating a problem for the German units south of Rome, if they stay they increasingly risk being cut off. Of course the other risk is a nasty group of Pzrs waiting to pounce � of note there are none in the front lines any more.

And my shiny new toy?

< Message edited by loki100 -- 1/20/2020 7:04:04 AM >

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Post #: 46

RE: T19: Something new and shiny - 1/20/2020 3:49:38 PM

GloriousRuse

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How does a tattered bomber force manage to generate 7 naval interdiction when a full force one barley manages to contest Rome? Well, besides less dying, the obvious-in-hindsight answer is:

Who knew that naval mines could cause major problems to naval landings? What might have happened had I had embarked on this journey of discovery earlier?

< Message edited by GloriousRuse -- 1/20/2020 4:16:59 PM >

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Post #: 47

T20 - Forza Napoli - 1/20/2020 4:12:30 PM

loki100

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T20 � 13 November 1943

At Rome, German counter-attack drove back the Canadian tanks, they also managed to isolate V Corps beachhead (using a very pretty layout of interdiction.

Nothing interesting on the VP chart, poor weather in N Europe (so all the UK air has a week off), not bad in Italy. Most missions are interdiction, start on the railyards in Tuscany, abandoned regiment in Naples is heavily bombed.

End up with good interdiction North and South of Rome and the sea lanes re-open. Mosquitos carry on interdicting along the Adriatic.

Naples quickly taken. 5 Army retakes Marcigliana, 8 Army almost reaches V Corps.

Major airdrop both to the enclaves and for my advanced tanks.

I'll probably pull the battered Canadian armoured division back to the UK to refit, don't want my limited port capacity full of replacements at the moment.

In the meantime in Rome, Anna decides I am being too slow and to take things into her own hands:

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Post #: 48

request - 1/20/2020 6:16:56 PM

BrianG

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great detail:. I am learning much.

Any chance for a map showing how you are organizing Britain? and one when you get 6 months further on.

thanks

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Post #: 49

RE: request - 1/20/2020 7:32:32 PM

loki100

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Well that of course is highly classified ...

At this stage I just put the big HQs onto supply sources, collect new arrivals in the south. The new fixed units are a bit of a pain as one is in Liverpool and another in Southampton, so you can't use those ports for preparation - but then that makes then good places to collect secondary invasion forces.

I like to slowly sort out the UK stuff into 2 invasion sites, so 4 hexes in France, a corp for each and 8 divisions. I'll start some prep soon as I can release some TF from the Med. But at the moment due to the ability to auto-repair smaller ports and as mobile artillery they are all too much use.

I generally dump most of the SUs into the Army Group - this can then be sent to the armies once they are in France and allows me to re-organise come the New Year for the invasions.

The strategic airforces are all in E Anglia, expanding every airbase in SE England ready for 9 Air to arrive and Tactical Air to return from their Italian holidays.

Once we hit the new year, I'll do a post on how I interpret the various French options ... I'm really not sure at the moment which to use, but my opponent has given every invasion in Italy a rough time of it

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Post #: 50

T21 - On my way to Anna ... - 1/20/2020 7:34:27 PM

loki100

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T21 � 20 November 1943

Everything north of Rome was heavy rain, below that light, so still scope for the Italian campaign to carry on but rest all the UK bombers. Next turn I'm promised cold and clear skies over the Reich.

Other nasty bit is German interdiction just off shore for 5 Army. I can re-open due to the odd weather split.

VP, my city bombing score reduces as some stuff repairs as does some U-Boat production. Can see the benefit of Naples in the city VP line.

Not much happened. The Germans sailed out of Pescara just as my tanks arrived. Linked up to V Corps, 7 Army is pressing towards Rome, 8 Army is a bit out of position (but I'll send some units across as Rome is what matters).

The French mountain divisions are really handy as are those high morale specialist brigades. Can hold the line or do an 'ooze' offensive.

I'm busily repairing all these small ports that I'm now taking, will ease supply. Railheads past Pescara and up to Beneventum and the main ports are generating plenty of supply.

< Message edited by loki100 -- 1/20/2020 7:37:12 PM >

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Post #: 51

RE: T19: Something new and shiny - 1/20/2020 9:37:07 PM

loki100

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quote:

ORIGINAL: GloriousRuse

....
Who knew that naval mines could cause major problems to naval landings? What might have happened had I had embarked on this journey of discovery earlier?
...

is this a good place to confess that in one game I was really pleased I'd set the Wellingtons to the mine bomb load, but forgot to change it back to bombs and was wondering why they were doing absolutely no damage on their raids?

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Post #: 52

T22 - Are we there yet? - 1/21/2020 6:40:01 AM

loki100

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T22 � 27 November 1943

And ... its cold and clear � bomb baby bomb. Especially as the U-Boats are up to -6 on the VP chart.

So the frustrating question is where? My guess is the Bremen-Kiel group but my assumption is there will be a lot of fighters. So in addition to several raids aimed at the U-Boats, I commit almost all of the rest of 8AAF to a wider bomb the region mission � very well escorted and covered by an AS [1]. BC mostly does the Ruhr, just to remind the locals we still exist. Elements of 8 AAF join in.

Tactical Air goes for trucks and rail capacity.

Italy, the bulk do something around Rome but a large element of Tactical Air supports 8 Army. 15 AAF goes for the railyards in Tuscany and Bologna � well escorted as I expect to find German fighters. Also running some recon looking for their bombers.

Results. BC's twin raid on the Ruhr have given the German engineers something else to do.

Quick comment about hitting resources. I never target this as its not a VP source and the Germans, globally, have a lot but there is a small gain. Resources get shipped by rail to factories, if you've blown up the local stock, that means more rail cap allocated to the job. That rail cap is not moving supplies or units.

If it was the Bremen U-Boats that had repaired, that is them back out of action. And no German fighters.

Kiel is added to the bombed list, a lot of German fighters but I have enough escorts now to protect the bombers.

And that removes Hamburg from the list of suspects. Note that on same raids I overwhelmed the fighters and all that fuel will help rebuild my VP score.

Air losses in that blow out. Would have liked more dead German pilots, my LB losses were high but mostly those were 2 engined or Lancasters over the Ruhr (75 � and another 30 Halifaxes) � I suspect more flak has been moved in over the last few turns. Relatively few US bombers lost.

File that one under 'very annoying'. But had the MP for a second attack which worked, not just nice to drive back the PzrGr formation but overran 35 Ju-52s on the air base. I'd rather have destroyed 35 Ju-88s.

So retake Marcigliana airbase (probably the most fought over hex on the map). Its not that I really want it (or can use it) but it chokes the movement of supply to Rome (ZoC costs). Anzio and Lido di Roma are in my hands now and I'll have a ground supply route to 5 Army next turn.

This cluster of #1 and #2 ports ease supply in the short term. Be a while before Naples is useful.

8 British Army broke out (that PzrGr regiment was weakened by lack of supply). Need to think about how far I want to go on that flank but the threat undermines the German grip on Rome.

Have found the German bombers.

Destroyed unit list. Gives some idea how often Marcigliana has changed hands. Still no-where near the numbers I'd like to have taken out.

Can Anna wait? � or is she just trying to find a taxi?

[1] The advantage to this is these fighters go looking for a fight, escorts primarily are there to deter. Can't do it yet, but once you have P-51s over Germany on AS missions then its the end for the Luftwaffe.

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Post #: 53

RE: T22 - Are we there yet? - 1/21/2020 3:28:33 PM

GloriousRuse

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quote:

I suspect more flak has been moved in...

A useful gameplay tip for those who play Axis. Everyone knows to move HQs around the Reich to add some flak cities or contest ingress routes.

It turns out that most HQs start at Supply Priority 0.

In a surprising turn of events, it helps if those AA guns have ammo. Which means they may need to be higher than supply priority 0. Much learning.

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RE: T22 - Are we there yet? - 1/22/2020 7:08:46 AM

LiquidSky

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I give all my mechanized units 1 hvy, 1 mixed and 1 light flak support unit. Makes it very painful for them to unit bomb them...especially if there are 3 divs in a hex.

I never attach flak to my cities, but do rail them around.....mostly into factories along the Rhine. Any flak reinforcements are given to units.

The freebie RR-Flak I usually cluster in possible invasion areas to mess with interdiction...you rail them out to get them out of trouble for free.

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Post #: 55

RE: T22 - Are we there yet? - 1/22/2020 7:44:33 AM

loki100

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quote:

ORIGINAL: GloriousRuse

quote:

I suspect more flak has been moved in...

A useful gameplay tip for those who play Axis. Everyone knows to move HQs around the Reich to add some flak cities or contest ingress routes.

...

quote:

ORIGINAL: LiquidSky

I give all my mechanized units 1 hvy, 1 mixed and 1 light flak support unit. Makes it very painful for them to unit bomb them...especially if there are 3 divs in a hex.

I never attach flak to my cities, but do rail them around.....mostly into factories along the Rhine. Any flak reinforcements are given to units.

The freebie RR-Flak I usually cluster in possible invasion areas to mess with interdiction...you rail them out to get them out of trouble for free.

think that overall the flak allocation options for the Germans is one of those games inside the game.

A personal view is that BC is more disrupted by flak than the NF. Mainly as flak damages, damage = lower morale, low morale = not flying, so you can remove a chunk of BC for a few turns and that adds up. Doesn't stop the destruction of the Ruhr but slows it a bit.

Of course, as with everything, the Germans don't have enough so you are left with the dilemna of disperse vs concentrate (& thus miss where the bombers actually are)

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Post #: 56

T23 ... almost? - 1/22/2020 7:46:55 AM

loki100

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T23 � 4 December 1943

The weather has been very much in my favour in this game. I've only lost 3 bombing weeks and 1 week of ground operations. Back to cold in the north, rain and light mud in Italy. I do hope I don't get the reverse situation in 1944.

Seem to have mostly guessed right about the U-Boats. I'll have one more go at them and then leave it (only 3 more turns of them then need to worry about the V-weapons).

Last turn's massive air effort has consequences. 109 air units out of use and, for the first time, quite a lot of Bomber Command.

Small indicator of a shift of attention. For the first time placing new tactical airforce squadrons in the UK rather than in Italy.

Air war, not very inventive. Would like to do more U-Boat damage and since I am bombing in the Baltic region make a start on the V-weapons. Italy, not pushing it but 15 AAF has gone for the airfields where the bombers were.

BC did its usual damage to the Ruhr, seems to have hit the U-Boats at Hannover and the Tiger production at Kassel (but not enough to close it down).

Tactical Air started on the launch sites. I often find that early 1944 can be slow for bombing so its worth inflicting a bit of damage on these to reduce VP loss.

8 AAF hit the Panthers and trucks at Nuremberg, but ran into massive concentration of German fighters along the Baltic, did some damage but at heavy losses.

In Italy 15 AAF managed to destroy 35 planes at the targetted airbases. I assume that was the Do 217s, He 111s and Ju 188s.

Quite scary pilot KIA ratio.

Tried to take Ancona on the run. Not a great idea, but I'm not too worried about breaching the N Italy boundary as the garrison requirements are less onerous into 1944.

Battle for Rome commences. Some of my moves were designed to constrict resupply (hence some of the air interdiction missions) as I squeeze around the city.

Along the Adriatic, the French fill in along my communications, I've also found the missing Panzers so some risk to my units up at Ancona but have quite a lot moving up so not too worried.

Have bypassed 4 German FZ in the Abruzzi. No point expending manpower on them as I have enough rail lines to go around where they are. Naples will be a functioning port next turn.

For a change, rare sighting of the OOB screen. Never sure it is that informative in WiTW.

And ... too late

< Message edited by loki100 -- 1/22/2020 12:21:45 PM >

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RE: T23 ... almost? - 1/22/2020 10:46:10 AM

EwaldvonKleist

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It looks like you turned the retreat into a rout for the Germans in this game? I also guess you will have an above-average number of POWs/destroyed units given the pockets and promising ZOC-locks as of T23?

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Post #: 58

RE: T23 ... almost? - 1/22/2020 12:00:02 PM

loki100

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quote:

ORIGINAL: EwaldvonKleist

It looks like you turned the retreat into a rout for the Germans in this game? I also guess you will have an above-average number of POWs/destroyed units given the pockets and promising ZOC-locks as of T23?

I think the challenge is to stick to completing this phase with as big as haul as possible. As ever my dreams of what I'd like are bigger than my capacity.

The position of 8 Army is so damn distracting. The sensible thing is to clear the Appenines, take Tuscany and call it a day, the lure is Venice.

And I need to start bringing stuff back to the UK - nothing in Italy is automatically what I would use for the first wave in France but I want the better stuff to hand.

Also GR seems very unwilling just to sit still and get pocketed

which is very inconsiderate of him. So far he's done a good job of just slipping out - and has a good feel for when to cut your losses and abandon stuff (one of the harder lessons for a German player in WiTW and both sides at different times in WiTE1/2).

He's also worked out how to defend vs BC, its not stopping me hitting the Ruhr but it does mean that the secondary operations are being curtailed.

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Post #: 59

T24 ... the Germans are not co-operating - 1/22/2020 9:06:37 PM

loki100

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T24 � 11 December 1943

First time that Bomber Command has been seriously disrupted, overall have 157 air groups resting and 40 of them from BC. On the other hand, 8 AAF is almost all available to wreak further havoc.

So slightly reduced the scope of my northern bombing campaign. BC again took heavier losses over the Ruhr but also did a lot of damage. Tactical Air has done a useful start on the V-Weapon sites in NE France. Fighter Command went hunting the German NF over their bases in the Ruhr.

The B-24s returned to Nuremberg and the Panther and Truck production there. Main group of B-17s moved back to the Hannover region and went for the tank production (Panthers and Stugs in that region). Only 2 rather incautious German fighters appeared.

Included oil production on the target list as it generates VP and is relatively hard to repair.

Italian missions all connected with the Rome operation and seeing if I can create an opportunity for 8 Army.

Air losses at the end of the air phase. As you can see, losses in Bomber Command are increasing but 8 AAF was mostly unscathed. A note is passed to Harris that maybe it is now the time to risk day time missions as they are clearly so much safer?

In practice what I had in mind for 8 Army was too ambitious. But I can keep the original plan as an option. In the end managed to breach the Ancona line aided by massive naval support and pre-attack unit bombing (heavies and 2 engined).

Flip side to that success was an attempt by 5 Army to seal off the Rome pocket. As ever the FJ elements are such a pain to have to deal with. Didn't even damage the fortifications and 5 Army is still suffering for lack of supply/ammo.

So Italy is pretty chaotic, I actually routed out some German infantry from Rome trying to force the encirclement � given the defeat above I was probably better keeping them and making them surrender next turn.

Not sure if my bridgehead over the Esino will hold � depends on what deeper reserves the Germans have but they must be fairly stretched at the moment.

On the other hand, I need to start paying attention to France.

This table is not usually that informative in WiTW but does show how 5 Army is struggling while the others are doing fine. Rail-line up the coast from Naples is partly repaired and that, plus the level 2 ports, will help.

Rail-line on the Adriatic is repaired up to the front � and well supplied from the big ports in the SE.