Clear weather in 39 is OP

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Clear weather in 39 is OP - 1/26/2020 5:50:10 PM

Almeron

Posts: 60
Joined: 8/4/2017
Status: offline

I finished my last game against a decent player (DicedT), but I beat him/her badly. The main reason was two clear turn in a row. Of course in 1939 october (just for fun), what lead into fall of France in early 1940 (around turn 18-19)
We can call it bad luck, but it's more close to call it game killer in a way. So that event inspired me to share my opinion about the current game.

First at all, I like this game, and it's make a lot of fun to play it. The dynamic, game mechanics are good, nothing over complicated, and the historical immersion (if I could say that about a PC game) is there.
But there is a huge issues with Germany. We know he's the big boy, the nation whose actions drives, but a very fast drive makes the game into an early end. She's to strong, in the early stage, when other nations try to build up their forces.
Any good weather in 1939 is a huge gift for germany, and a disaster for allied side. And another clear time could count as game over.
As allied, there is no way to counter any german aggression, when you just try to build up your forces, from nothing. I know, nowadays Britain has extra 40 PP, what matters, in the long run, but in 39/40 could be just enough to survive. And to keep your extra 40PP, Brittain needs to go fast against subs.

So let's see my suggestion, based on 7-8 PBEM games:

1. There should be no clear weather after 1939 september, until 1940 january. The impact is so huge, allowing a clear turn.

2. Holland, Belgium, and Luxembourg should be counted as one entity, for declaration of war. Luxemburg is that nation what must be conquered by germans, or allies on T01 (if germany forgot to do it).

3. Maximize the air attack/hex. Unlimited air attacks means granted success, even against the toughest position.You don't need to find the weak spots, just concentrate your air forces, and attack, attack.

4. Transport capacity. That is a big one to. With so much transport capacity germans, italians, basically everybody could transport their armies in a matter of days. Germany has more naval transport capacity, then rail. It' stupid to see, or even do it, when 4-5 armored corps landed into Africa, in just one week. Last turn nobody was there, now an entire army group? That rate should be halved.

+1 Landing ships. Cheap, fast to build, and really annoying to both sides. And nowadays Athen, and other mirror capitals are taken by naval invasion. Double build time (180, instead of 90), and cost.

< Message edited by Almeron -- 1/26/2020 6:18:24 PM >

Post #: 1

RE: Clear weather in 39 is OP - 1/26/2020 6:05:01 PM

PanzerMike

Posts: 888
Joined: 4/30/2006
Status: offline

I also have been thinking about the idea of limiting the number of air attacks per turn on one hex. I call it the sledgehammer from the sky, shattering even the most determined elite units dug in and all.

Especially when units are dug in, the effect of air attacks may be too much. On the other hand you need a way to crack open a line, to prevent the game from resembling ww1. For instance in the 1944 scenario it is just impossible for the Germans to put up a fight like they did in Normandy, keeping the Allies pretty much pinned on a small area for some two months. In real life the Allies had air supremacy as well, but close air support on enemy units was marginally effective at best. Their strength lay more in interdiction of enemy units and supplies trying to reach the front line.

Not sure about this yet.

< Message edited by PanzerMike -- 1/26/2020 6:06:10 PM >

(in reply to Almeron)

Post #: 2

RE: Clear weather in 39 is OP - 1/26/2020 7:04:16 PM

AlbertN

Posts: 3693
Joined: 10/5/2010
From: Italy
Status: offline

All these things should be quite tested.

On the weather I do not really agree - it ought to be random.

Benelux as one entity I do not agree either.

Unlimited Air attack - that needs reworking in a way or another BUT if you remove it you'll have a new whole can of other problems to deal with.

Transport capacity is quite required - but I agree it's very abundant as it is now. I'd rather have -port capacity- as well to see how many units a port can actually receive per turn.

Landing ships is another can of worm. While on the paper I agree with what you said, to do that precludes all possibilities of Sea Lion.

(in reply to PanzerMike)

Post #: 3

RE: Clear weather in 39 is OP - 1/26/2020 7:15:04 PM

Almeron

Posts: 60
Joined: 8/4/2017
Status: offline

quote:

On the weather I do not really agree - it ought to be random.

In 1939, weather has the biggest impact. France and Britain can't handle it, if two clear weather hits. One is Belgium, second is Lille (what worth 25 PP), and deep attack in France.
France must build an Armour (if she ever wished to use it), so his troops are on low manpower level, and Brittain, still try to build up her forces.
Later is fine, and great, but on first 10 turn is really harsh.

(in reply to AlbertN)

Post #: 4

RE: Clear weather in 39 is OP - 1/27/2020 3:01:43 AM

battlevonwar

Posts: 1041
Joined: 12/22/2011
Status: offline

I have seen clear with on turn 3 and 4 quite a bit then you can get lucky and get cold weather in early 40 which is really deadly.(only seen this in 1 game in 5) Although I have to admit Almeron if that doesn't happen the French and British are quite capable of extracting casualties in France. Too many I would think ...

Germans can easily lose between 225-325 manpower, 100-150 air in taking the whole cake and been pushed into August '40. Really it's Sea Lion or bust if you want to ensure victory at that point. That or risk fighting it out.

Though if the British are importing Tanks into France they are leaving Egypt vulnerable and really it should be taken if the Axis want to. There is no supply past a certain point in Egypt for the Axis unless they air/naval/truck push the objective. That or amphibious landings.

Also you are stuck with the fact that the USSR is quickly trying to figure out a defense that works. Everyone is brainstorming one. . . Does it work, it sort of depends on how the proceeding campaigns went on whether or not it works so there is a fine balance to the amount of pain and suffering in '39-'41 to properly weaken the Axis so the the USSR isn't walked over in time for the West to exert pressure anywhere to draw off that and then I think that 1942-43 transition should be a 'very close call' With economic advantage on one side. The Land Army advantage on the other until the push back happens.

How do we balance this out without tipping the scales so far people stop playing in 1942 which is 99% of newer patch games?

For one I notice Manpower too plentiful for the Axis. Oil also is too plentiful in these years 39-41. The British are a bit too potent in '42 as are the Americans. They should have to train their XP a Little to limit their abilities to take on the Germans in a snap. Plus the Russians need the ability to hold their key Positions from conquest. I think there is a way to achieve this. Cut the Oil and Manpower or increment it maybe for the Axis?

I am just throwing stuff out there like you though I think we may try 1 or 2 things at a time. See where it goes? The increase in the British Economy is definitely nice.

P.S. I think the backlash we are also seeing is META tactics and strategies due to each change the Developer makes to milk the game for each side.

< Message edited by battlevonwar -- 1/27/2020 3:05:29 AM >

(in reply to Almeron)

Post #: 5