Matrix Games Forums

 Forums  Register  Login  Photo Gallery  Member List  Search  Calendars  FAQ 

My Profile  Inbox  Address Book  My Subscription  My Forums  Log Out

Ship damage in port

 
View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
Users viewing this topic: none
  Printable Version
All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> WarPlan >> Ship damage in port Page: [1]
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
Ship damage in port - 1/30/2020 9:01:32 AM   
markwatson360

 

Posts: 9
Joined: 10/20/2017
Status: offline 		In a PBEM game i've been bombing ships in port and an enemy BB came up with Bottomed, rather than sunk. Is there any difference? if so ,what is it. I've looked in the manual but can't find any mention of it.
Post #: 1
RE: Ship damage in port - 1/30/2020 2:34:20 PM   
AlvaroSousa


Posts: 9927
Joined: 7/29/2013
Status: offline 		Harder to sink ships in port. Bottomed means they stay at 1 health. They have a high chance of bottoming out. Thanks for the note. It is mentioned in page 8 but not detailed. I added it to the manual edit file.

_____________________________

Creator Kraken Studios
- WarPlan
- WarPlan Pacific

Designer Strategic Command
- Brute Force (mod) SC2
- Assault on Communism SC2
- Assault on Democracy SC2
- Map Image Importer SC3

(in reply to markwatson360)
Post #: 2
RE: Ship damage in port - 1/31/2020 8:02:07 AM   
PanzerMike


Posts: 888
Joined: 4/30/2006
Status: offline 		I am playing the Axis vs AI in the 1944 scenario. Right away in the first turn the U-boats in St Nazaire, La Rochelle and Bordeaux are destroyed by Allied air power.
This is another example of my distinct impression, that ships in harbors are easily hit.

In the case of the U boats, this would not have been possible due to the contruction of the huge U-boat bunker on the Atlantic coast. These are not modelled in Warplan.
Perhaps it could be changed that hitting U-boats in port is really VERY hard.

But even then, surface vessels also seem easy to destroy in port. This should also be difficult. So this may need some tweaking IMHO.

< Message edited by PanzerMike -- 1/31/2020 8:15:35 AM >

(in reply to AlvaroSousa)
Post #: 3
RE: Ship damage in port - 1/31/2020 8:13:31 AM   
battlevonwar


Posts: 1041
Joined: 12/22/2011
Status: offline 		Have you tried 6 AA on that port to see if that stops the issue?

Ports did not protect ships = Mers-El-Kebir, Pearl Harbor, Taranto, and I believe a Carrier in Scapa Flow sunk by a u-boat off the top of my head. Those special concrete bunkers were indeed impossible to blow up. Though was that everywhere or one or two locations?

P.S. Worst Carrier strike on a Port was I believe Truk? Gibraltar of the Pacific? My memory escapes me now but the US melted everything in sight...

Only difference in a port is you can raise dead ships over time.

< Message edited by battlevonwar -- 1/31/2020 8:14:57 AM >

(in reply to PanzerMike)
Post #: 4
RE: Ship damage in port - 2/1/2020 9:21:10 PM   
PanzerMike


Posts: 888
Joined: 4/30/2006
Status: offline 		Some of the battles you mention are cases of a u-boat penetrating the defenses if scapa flow and sinking the BB Royal Oak. This was almost a one off for the Germans AFAIK. The Japanese mini subs at Pearl harbor failed. The Italians were fairly successful with their human torpedoes though. And the Brits attacked the Tirpitz with mini subs. Mers El Kebir was surface warships attacking the French ships in port.

There were successful attacks on ports. Pearl harbor, Taranto. These were attacks with dive bombers or torpedo bombers.

What happens in Warplan is tactical bombers easily sink ships in port. Hitting ships in port with level bombers was really hard. The RAF tried to hit the German ships in the Baltic ports, but these attacks usually failed.

So attacks with Carrier based torpedo or dive bombers (or land based of course, but then range becomes an issue) are certainly viable. Especially when they have the element of surprise, otherwise ships can leave port and be harder to hit. But early warning by radar is not modeled in Warplan.

Attacks by level bombers, as is the case of the Allied attacks on the German u boats in the French ports should be largely ineffective. Yes you can deter them with flak I guess, but that should not be necessary; the level bombers were simply to inaccurate to hit a ship in port from great height. Worsened sometimes by smoke screens put up by the port defense. And the U boat bunkers in case of attack on u boats. The Germans poured huge resources in those. Also not modeled in Warplan alas.

< Message edited by PanzerMike -- 2/1/2020 9:25:41 PM >

(in reply to battlevonwar)
Post #: 5
RE: Ship damage in port - 2/2/2020 7:39:41 AM   
battlevonwar


Posts: 1041
Joined: 12/22/2011
Status: offline 		PanzerMike, I woke up to a nasty surprise when I found out how vulnerable my Subs were to such strikes and they stop operating in the Atlantic altogether. I never brought up due to the fact I knew people would also figure out the same thing and exploit the fact. U-boat Dens would be an interesting model down the road. Brits tried those Massive Bombs they had to no effect on them?

AA is 1 counter, the second and I will reveal a little of my hand is your own Air which Germany is blessed with for Naval Interception and strikes. Also ports of range of Allied Air power.

U-boats really lose their ability to Raid In the Atlantic with Greenland/IceLand/Ireland/Bombers full escorts. Though you don't need that level of investment. Only counter would be Spain-Gibraltar. Then you could have safe bases and 4 free Subs/A whole Italian Fleet.

(in reply to PanzerMike)
Post #: 6
RE: Ship damage in port - 2/2/2020 12:25:02 PM   
PanzerMike


Posts: 888
Joined: 4/30/2006
Status: offline 		Also, stationing naval units as the Allies in Malta is suicide if the Axis keeps some air units on Sicily. This however is more or less historical AFAIK.

< Message edited by PanzerMike -- 2/2/2020 12:43:05 PM >

(in reply to battlevonwar)
Post #: 7
RE: Ship damage in port - 2/5/2020 8:59:22 AM   
tyronec


Posts: 4940
Joined: 8/7/2015
From: Portaferry, N. Ireland
Status: offline
quote:

Harder to sink ships in port. Bottomed means they stay at 1 health. They have a high chance of bottoming out. Thanks for the note. It is mentioned in page 8 but not detailed. I added it to the manual edit file.

1. So just to clarify, surface ships and subs are 40% likely to 'Bottom' rather than sink if they are bombed ?
I had one BB bottom out and a sub destroyed by carrier attack in the same turn, so just bad luck that I failed to sink the BB but lost my sub on the same turn.

2. Do 'Bottomed' ships move in the same way as normal ? So I captured the port with the 'Bottomed' BB and it still gets away ?


< Message edited by tyronec -- 2/5/2020 9:00:12 AM >

(in reply to PanzerMike)
Post #: 8
RE: Ship damage in port - 2/5/2020 3:09:49 PM   
AlvaroSousa


Posts: 9927
Joined: 7/29/2013
Status: offline 		It isn't that complicated.

_____________________________

Creator Kraken Studios
- WarPlan
- WarPlan Pacific

Designer Strategic Command
- Brute Force (mod) SC2
- Assault on Communism SC2
- Assault on Democracy SC2
- Map Image Importer SC3

(in reply to tyronec)
Post #: 9
Page:   [1]
All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> WarPlan >> Ship damage in port Page: [1]
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts


Forum Software © ASPPlayground.NET Advanced Edition 2.4.5 ANSI

3.109