Tanker mission

Matrix Games Forums

Forums Register Login Photo Gallery Member List Search Calendars FAQ

My Profile Inbox Address Book My Subscription My Forums Log Out

Tanker mission

View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest

Users viewing this topic: none

Printable Version

All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> Command: Modern Operations series >> The War Room >> Tanker mission

Page: [1]

Message

<< Older Topic Newer Topic >>

Tanker mission - 10/18/2019 8:55:50 AM

kch

Posts: 194
Joined: 12/31/2014
Status: offline

Hi. Anybody has a good recommendation for a mission to practice tanker missions? I am horrible at this and it seems like I always end up with half my strike package deciding to head back towards a tanker just short of the target. Any good tips? Should I disable tankers in the doctrines on the outbound leg?

Post #: 1

RE: Tanker mission - 10/18/2019 10:00:34 AM

Rory Noonan

Posts: 2816
Joined: 12/18/2014
From: Brooklyn, NY
Status: offline

Wooden Leg was designed to get players familiar with aerial refueling. Have you tried it?

_____________________________

(in reply to kch)

Post #: 2

RE: Tanker mission - 10/18/2019 10:28:44 AM

kch

Posts: 194
Joined: 12/31/2014
Status: offline

No. But I will definitely give it a go later today or tomorrow. Anything I should keep in mind?

(in reply to Rory Noonan)

Post #: 3

RE: Tanker mission - 10/18/2019 3:33:27 PM

SeaQueen

Posts: 1451
Joined: 4/14/2007
From: Washington D.C.
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: kch
Any good tips? Should I disable tankers in the doctrines on the outbound leg?

Maybe? It depends. At some point, as you do more and more clever things in Command, few if any scenarios won't involve tanking at some point. Sometimes it's pretty hands off, other times it gets really complicated, and you need to have some experience managing the various settings. The best thing to do is just keep expanding your bang of tricks and figure out what works to produce the desired behavior. That seems to be particularly the case for strike missions.

The AI in the game tends to be a little conservative in terms of its range calculations. This can cause some wonky behavior if left to its own devices. The problem is that if tankers are disabled it can cause wonky behavior of its own. If, for example, I have a flight of fighters top off their tanks at max range, then set them on a manual path to get them on their planned attack vector and avoid a strategic SAM site resulting in them having flown nearly a second strike radius away from the tanker, then switch them to a "strike," mission, depending on the settings you might get lots of unintended behavior.

If it's not set up right, it might decide immediately to go back to the tanker using the shortest path, resulting in your strike package flying directly into the SAM WEZ you were trying to avoid in the first place. On the other hand, using other settings, it might head directly home at an inopportune time, dodging the tanker entirely but still flying a less than ideal path through the SAM WEZ. It might also refuse to assign the aircraft to the mission, which I find particularly annoying. In that case you can still manually drop. For complex plans involving lots of moving pieces, at some point you need to just handle it yourself.

< Message edited by SeaQueen -- 11/10/2019 8:46:11 PM >

(in reply to kch)

Post #: 4

RE: Tanker mission - 11/9/2019 2:28:27 PM

AKar

Posts: 81
Joined: 3/18/2018
Status: offline

Still learning the nuances of this great game (and waiting for its sequel, of course!).

Now, I am not completely sure on the behavior of the units on tankers as I sometimes get results I did not quite intent.

I'd still like to have some more customization for AI refuel behavior. I'd suggest a menu for refueling behavior, specifically, on how much the airplane would take on fuel. I think it should have at least the options for 'Maximum fuel' and 'To RTB with reserves', and perhaps some percentage options.

In particular, 'To RTB with reserves' option would avoid having big, long range bombers (among others) to unnecessarily deplete the tankers. Also, with such options, one could fill up inbound planes, and then one could keep airplanes on patrol, and when it is time to bring them home, just change the setting and order them to a tanker and they would only pick up enough to reach home.

(in reply to SeaQueen)

Post #: 5

RE: Tanker mission - 11/9/2019 10:35:29 PM

Fido81

Posts: 129
Joined: 7/14/2019
Status: offline

You might be interested in the scenario "Black Buck 1", which is currently available on Steam Workshop, but is not part of the Community Scenario Pack to the best of my knowledge. It recreates Operation Black Buck (link contains spoilers), which is historically notable for the amount of tanking required, and for being the longest-range bombing mission in the world at the time it was flown.

(in reply to AKar)

Post #: 6

RE: Tanker mission - 11/10/2019 12:03:47 AM

stilesw

Posts: 1497
Joined: 6/26/2014
From: Hansville, WA, USA
Status: offline

Actually it is part of the current "Standalone Scenario" area in non-Steam CMANO. Here is a copy.

-WS

Attachment (1)

_____________________________

�There is no limit to what a man can do so long as he does not care a straw who gets the credit for it.�

Charles Edward Montague, English novelist and essayist
~Disenchantment, ch. 15 (1922)

(in reply to Fido81)

Post #: 7

RE: Tanker mission - 11/10/2019 8:55:17 PM

SeaQueen

Posts: 1451
Joined: 4/14/2007
From: Washington D.C.
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: AKar

Still learning the nuances of this great game (and waiting for its sequel, of course!).

Now, I am not completely sure on the behavior of the units on tankers as I sometimes get results I did not quite intent.

The problems pop up when you start trying to really push the range of a platform or maybe require multiple refuelings. That's when you need to get everything just right and/or take advantage of manual control. A good practice case would be doing something like flying a B-2 out of Diego around Vietnam and then way up into the South China Sea. If you can get that to work, you've got it pretty much figured out.

(in reply to AKar)

Post #: 8

RE: Tanker mission - 11/29/2019 7:26:47 AM

guanotwozero

Posts: 651
Joined: 12/27/2013
Status: offline

As brought up in another thread, probably the most challenging tanker mission is "Operation Black Buck 1" in the community scenarios. Based on a series of real missions in 1982, it's a long-range strike without forward refuelling; all tankers use the same base as the bomber, and there's only one runway!

The trick is to work out a refuelling plan. Here's the real one from Black Buck 7:

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by guanotwozero -- 11/29/2019 7:35:15 AM >

(in reply to SeaQueen)

Post #: 9

RE: Tanker mission - 2/1/2020 1:46:52 PM

kfarley215

Posts: 17
Joined: 11/24/2019
Status: offline

It seems like the first scenario of Desert Storm campaign has some pretty complex refueling problems given the many to many relationships between missions to re-fuel stations and timing.

I'm not sure how to understand the diagram you shared so I'd be happy to learn more on this.

Thanks!

(in reply to guanotwozero)

Post #: 10