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How do people deal with fuel in SWPac as Allies?

 
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How do people deal with fuel in SWPac as Allies? - 2/15/2020 10:44:39 PM   
alanschu

 

Posts: 405
Joined: 12/21/2006
Status: offline 		As I enter October 1942 and transition to the offensive, I'm curious how people deal with fuel in the SW Pacific.

I've often used Sydney and deliver fuel through two ports, Perth (from Cape Hope and Abadan) and fleets either from San Francisco or sometimes Pearl Harbor.

Both of these are somewhat slow, however, and I was wondering if I would be better off just loading up my US LCUs in a place like Pearl Harbor and delivering them to Solomon Islands directly, or use intermediary bases like Luganville/New Caledonia (poorer ports present though), or if loading things in through Sydney and now Brisbane is still one of the better ways of doing it.

Part of the reason I would lean on Australia is the bigger ports letting me make larger Amphibious task forces, and also that for all but the US BBs I can at least leverage the few repair yards in the area if something bad happens (like Wasp taking a torpedo near Port Moresby! Grrr).

I just find that the supply line is a bit too long and if some disruption happens (raids near Ceylon/Perth, or in South Pac) that, even if I don't lose forces, I'm often in a "fuel is super precious" stage for a lot of my bases.

So was just curious how people managed their fuel supply lines (Supplies for the most part are fine).

< Message edited by alanschu -- 2/15/2020 10:45:29 PM >
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RE: How do people deal with fuel in SWPac as Allies? - 2/15/2020 11:43:08 PM   
RangerJoe


Posts: 13450
Joined: 11/16/2015
From: My Mother, although my Father had some small part.
Status: offline 		Early in the game, pull as much fuel and oil as possible out of the DEI. At the same time, you tankers should be setting up fuel depots for the the long supply route to Australia. Full refueling going in and minimal the refueling on the return to reduce the need to ship fuel. Keep shipping as much fuel as you can to Australia, New Zealand, and your major SOPAC bases. It takes a long time but it will build up.

The longer that you LCUs are on board ships, the greater the disruption when they debark. So Pearl Harbor to the Solomons is a long trip for an amphibious unit, especially if you have closer ports.

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RE: How do people deal with fuel in SWPac as Allies? - 2/15/2020 11:52:52 PM   
IdahoNYer


Posts: 2616
Joined: 9/6/2009
From: NYer living in Boise, ID
Status: offline 		If you're in Oct 42, you can likely ship plenty of fuel from the US West Coast or PH. My preference would be convoys to New Zealand - Auckland is a great port. From there, convoys north to Noumea and eventually Tulagi can work well.

Fuel for Australia can be shipped from Cape Town to Perth, additional fuel if needed from New Zealand. I found Australia needs all the fuel I can ship in '42, so I seldom pulled fuel out to support the Solomons.

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RE: How do people deal with fuel in SWPac as Allies? - 2/16/2020 12:51:28 AM   
jdsrae


Posts: 2716
Joined: 3/1/2010
From: Gandangara Country
Status: offline 		As allies, a lot better than Japan can!

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RE: How do people deal with fuel in SWPac as Allies? - 2/16/2020 1:15:49 AM   
alanschu

 

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Joined: 12/21/2006
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quote:

The longer that you LCUs are on board ships, the greater the disruption when they debark. So Pearl Harbor to the Solomons is a long trip for an amphibious unit, especially if you have closer ports.


Yeah that's precisely why I'm not too keen on that journey. Though as others have said, it might work a bit better to leverage Auckland. I do like the big ports to organize my landing forces. (One thing I also realized is that I can load without escorts at smaller PH and then add them once the convoy sets sail, so I'm not burning docking tonnage on the escort ships.

quote:

Fuel for Australia can be shipped from Cape Town to Perth, additional fuel if needed from New Zealand. I found Australia needs all the fuel I can ship in '42, so I seldom pulled fuel out to support the Solomons.


I've actually burned through Cape Town's stockpiles actually! Need to wait for more convoys to drop off some more.

I notice that Auckland is only 104 distance from PH, to Sydney's 120, which will save a bit on the trip. I think I might experiment with it as my rear area base as I build up Noumea.


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RE: How do people deal with fuel in SWPac as Allies? - 2/16/2020 1:32:03 AM   
RangerJoe


Posts: 13450
Joined: 11/16/2015
From: My Mother, although my Father had some small part.
Status: offline 		Use a bunch of short ranged cargo vessels to send supplies to Cape Town since little fuel is consumed in the game. Also ship fuel as cargo vessels will need it. Ship from the East Coast mostly but the UK also build up some fuel and supply. You could also ship to Port Stanley and take the Southern Route to your bases.

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RE: How do people deal with fuel in SWPac as Allies? - 2/16/2020 7:09:07 AM   
Kursk1943

 

Posts: 445
Joined: 3/15/2014
From: Bavaria in Southern Germany
Status: offline 		After sending small convoys in former games, now I've made good experience in sending big convoys once a month in average. They consist of 50 -100 ships transporting fuel and supplies, they are accompanied by a SF-TF with one or more slow BB, one ASW-TF and a CV-TF (early war one or two CVs, later CVEs).
At the end of 1942 Australia is overflowing with fuel and supplies.
In former games I lost a lot of ships to Japanese subs, raiders and small CV-scavenger-TFs patroulling even between Hawaii and the West Coast.
After doing the big convoy thing I lost not a single ship (besides some damaged ships due to collision).
I gave up entirely transporting fuel in the Indian Ocean after losing two escorting carriers, 4 R-class BBs and nearly the entire big convoy from Colombo to Perth by the intercepting KB...

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RE: How do people deal with fuel in SWPac as Allies? - 2/16/2020 10:26:26 AM   
GetAssista

 

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Joined: 9/19/2009
Status: offline 		Stop HI in Oz/NZ. You don't need that fuel consumption (nor HI points). And supply can be moved in much easier than fuel

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RE: How do people deal with fuel in SWPac as Allies? - 2/16/2020 10:56:18 AM   
Sardaukar


Posts: 9847
Joined: 11/28/2001
From: Finland/Israel
Status: offline 		My fuel transportation is:

Abadan -> Karachi (since India needs fuel too to create more supply)

Cape Town -> Perth (as much as CT can allow)

Los Angeles -> Auckland -> Sydney (also to Pearl of course). LA handles fuel, SF troops and supply. Seattle handles anything north.

And as said, you should empty DEI as much as you can. Transfer fuel to Perth, it'll rail from there to wherever needed. Except Darwin, that you have to supply yourself if using it as naval base. In my case it's major submarine base.

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RE: How do people deal with fuel in SWPac as Allies? - 2/16/2020 11:00:29 AM   
Sardaukar


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Joined: 11/28/2001
From: Finland/Israel
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quote:

ORIGINAL: GetAssista

Stop HI in Oz/NZ. You don't need that fuel consumption (nor HI points). And supply can be moved in much easier than fuel


Why stop HI?

As Allies one never runs out of fuel in Australia unless things have gotten really bad. Perth and Sydney or Melbourne are usually open. And even if Perth is lost, SE Oz is open for transports from NZ. NZ can even be supplied from Panama.

It's bad logistics having to turn off industry.

< Message edited by Sardaukar -- 2/16/2020 11:01:34 AM >

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RE: How do people deal with fuel in SWPac as Allies? - 2/16/2020 11:08:11 AM   
Sardaukar


Posts: 9847
Joined: 11/28/2001
From: Finland/Israel
Status: offline 		Sydney shipyard is bit of a problem, since it cannot take Lex/Sara or biggest BBs.

Thus it's often advisable to operate Enterprise/Hornet/Wasp around SW Pacific instead of those 2 big ones.

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RE: How do people deal with fuel in SWPac as Allies? - 2/16/2020 11:35:23 AM   
GetAssista

 

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Joined: 9/19/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sardaukar
quote:

ORIGINAL: GetAssista
Stop HI in Oz/NZ. You don't need that fuel consumption (nor HI points). And supply can be moved in much easier than fuel

Why stop HI?

As Allies one never runs out of fuel in Australia unless things have gotten really bad. Perth and Sydney or Melbourne are usually open. And even if Perth is lost, SE Oz is open for transports from NZ. NZ can even be supplied from Panama.

It's bad logistics having to turn off industry.

Because fuel transport to Oz is a major task enough to make threads appear on the forums. Means fuel is needed there. Means there's not enough.
Also, it is bad logistics to consume scarce fuel in favor of keeping unneeded things running.

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RE: How do people deal with fuel in SWPac as Allies? - 2/16/2020 11:55:46 AM   
btd64


Posts: 9973
Joined: 1/23/2010
From: Mass. USA. now in Lancaster, OHIO
Status: offline 		I also turn off HI in OZ and NZ. But it is only until fuel is at an acceptable level. 3 to 4 months in. Sardaukar's fuel routes are similar to mine. I do build up some islands as intermediate fuel points as the war goes on....GP

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RE: How do people deal with fuel in SWPac as Allies? - 2/16/2020 1:28:43 PM   
Jorge_Stanbury


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Joined: 2/29/2012
From: Toronto and Lima
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: GetAssista

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sardaukar
quote:

ORIGINAL: GetAssista
Stop HI in Oz/NZ. You don't need that fuel consumption (nor HI points). And supply can be moved in much easier than fuel

Why stop HI?

As Allies one never runs out of fuel in Australia unless things have gotten really bad. Perth and Sydney or Melbourne are usually open. And even if Perth is lost, SE Oz is open for transports from NZ. NZ can even be supplied from Panama.

It's bad logistics having to turn off industry.

Because fuel transport to Oz is a major task enough to make threads appear on the forums. Means fuel is needed there. Means there's not enough.
Also, it is bad logistics to consume scarce fuel in favor of keeping unneeded things running.



+1

more xAKs than TKs means it that, at least in in ANZ, fuel is more valuable than supply.. hence, I dpn't convert precious fuel into supply

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RE: How do people deal with fuel in SWPac as Allies? - 2/16/2020 3:57:31 PM   
geofflambert


Posts: 14863
Joined: 12/23/2010
From: St. Louis
Status: offline 		Christmas Island (Pacific), Suva, Noumea (if you hold it), NZ and Sydney are your fuel dumps. If you want to have carrier operations in the Coral Sea area you must stockpile some fuel at these locations to fall back on before you send the carriers. Get some full AKEs there while you're at it and dump supplies. Build those ports to the max so they can load BB ammo without AEs, if needed. ADs and ASs are helpful too. Don't put ARs in ports you're not positive the IJN won't raid, or you'll lose the helpless ship you're trying to repair.

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RE: How do people deal with fuel in SWPac as Allies? - 2/16/2020 4:09:45 PM   
Sardaukar


Posts: 9847
Joined: 11/28/2001
From: Finland/Israel
Status: offline 		If you cannot get enough fuel to Oz, you are doing it wrong.

Later in war you have loads of TK and AO. Before that you can use xAKs in a pinch to move that fuel.

You just need to prioritize things. Oz and Pearl Harbor are those where you want to dump a lot and then some...and in CONUS you have abundance, you'll never come even close running out... Just get into habit of sending TK convoy everytime you can.

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RE: How do people deal with fuel in SWPac as Allies? - 2/16/2020 6:28:32 PM   
RangerJoe


Posts: 13450
Joined: 11/16/2015
From: My Mother, although my Father had some small part.
Status: offline 		Send fuel from the East Coast to Cape Town, then send it to Perth. Early on, build up a large stockpile of fuel and supplies at Cape Town until you see what the Japanese are doing in regards to India and Australia as where you need to send it. Then send it safely.

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RE: How do people deal with fuel in SWPac as Allies? - 2/16/2020 7:17:40 PM   
geofflambert


Posts: 14863
Joined: 12/23/2010
From: St. Louis
Status: offline 		I'd say TKs should be busy running the short haul from CA. If you've got some extra xAKs they could ship fuel from the Atlantic coast. Carriers and BBs use the most fuel. If they're in the IO or the DEI they'll be wasting it.

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RE: How do people deal with fuel in SWPac as Allies? - 2/16/2020 7:43:35 PM   
RangerJoe


Posts: 13450
Joined: 11/16/2015
From: My Mother, although my Father had some small part.
Status: offline 		Some of the British/Commonwealth xAKs in the Indian Ocean area do carry some liquid cargo. If you are using those to haul supplies to Australia then they might as well carry some fuel. Also, if you are shipping a lot of supplies through Cape Town there will not be enough fuel to fully refuel the cargo vessels.

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Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

“Illegitemus non carborundum est (“Don’t let the bastards grind you down”).”
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RE: How do people deal with fuel in SWPac as Allies? - 2/17/2020 1:59:44 AM   
CaptBeefheart


Posts: 2301
Joined: 7/4/2003
From: Seoul, Korea
Status: offline 		Lot of good advice. One other thing to do is run fuel from Karachi to Cape Town once India is swimming in the stuff (and it will be pretty quickly).

Cheers,
CB

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RE: How do people deal with fuel in SWPac as Allies? - 2/17/2020 2:07:19 AM   
RangerJoe


Posts: 13450
Joined: 11/16/2015
From: My Mother, although my Father had some small part.
Status: offline 		Instead of doing that, send the tankers to the East Coast to transport fuel safely to Cape Town. If you send the DS anywhere into the Indian Ocean, the fuel will be in India for those ships to use.

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Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

“Illegitemus non carborundum est (“Don’t let the bastards grind you down”).”
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RE: How do people deal with fuel in SWPac as Allies? - 2/17/2020 2:39:03 AM   
Scott_USN

 

Posts: 715
Joined: 6/2/2004
From: Eagle River, Alaska USA
Status: offline 		I fuel Darwin with DEI fuel and supplies. I send everything that is coming in from the west coast to Noumea and Suva, I build both bases and have enough fuel there for 1 or 2 years and send surplus to Sydney. I turn off Australian HE besides Melbourne. From LA to Suva and mostly Noumea.

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RE: How do people deal with fuel in SWPac as Allies? - 2/18/2020 3:53:47 PM   
Macclan5


Posts: 1065
Joined: 3/24/2016
From: Toronto Canada
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: geofflambert

Christmas Island (Pacific), Suva, Noumea (if you hold it), NZ and Sydney are your fuel dumps. If you want to have carrier operations in the Coral Sea area you must stockpile some fuel at these locations to fall back on before you send the carriers. Get some full AKEs there while you're at it and dump supplies. Build those ports to the max so they can load BB ammo without AEs, if needed. ADs and ASs are helpful too. Don't put ARs in ports you're not positive the IJN won't raid, or you'll lose the helpless ship you're trying to repair.


+1 Gorn - great advice.

I might add Canton (if you hold it) , Johnson (if you hold it) Midway (if you hold it) and all of the above is well secured via Search and Recon from attacks

And if you think you have "Naval Searched and Recon'ed enough" - then double it.

And add a Disbanded AO to your list above. Even by October 42 the Allies have enough TKs and AO's either available or in build pipeline that this is not a huge sacrifice.

In addition to shipping more massive fuel cargos to Pearl / Auckland / Sydney / Perth to build HI and massive reserves.


< Message edited by Macclan5 -- 2/18/2020 3:55:34 PM >

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RE: How do people deal with fuel in SWPac as Allies? - 2/18/2020 4:37:23 PM   
Ian R

 

Posts: 3420
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From: Cammeraygal Country
Status: offline 		If you build your convoys in the ratio of 3 Liberties, to 1 long ranged tanker, (so 6/2, 15/5, 27:9, whatever), the liberties can refuel the tankers + a couple of escorts and go all the way LAX -> to Sydney by the left arm route, and back, without refueling down south. I also include about 1 tanker full of crude oil per month to keep the refineries going. That is all more efficient than shipping off map to Capetown and then up to Perth or Adelaide, but as time goes on you have spare capacity to do that as well anyway.

Apart from that Christmas island (PO) and Suva are good hubs to distribute from, but I'd suggest using the 16 & 18 knt AOs closer to the battle area. They also give you some flexibility if you suddenly need some underway replenishment.

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RE: How do people deal with fuel in SWPac as Allies? - 2/18/2020 11:19:29 PM   
RangerJoe


Posts: 13450
Joined: 11/16/2015
From: My Mother, although my Father had some small part.
Status: offline 		You don't need AOs at the ports, the tankers disbanded in port will refuel ships.

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Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

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― Julia Child


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