[Fixed] TSARH

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[Fixed] TSARH - 2/16/2020 10:03:17 PM

orca

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I noticed several flankers (ie Su-35 and Su-33) now have a TSARH seeker (tactical synthetic aperture radar) sensor. What is this new sensor? Thanks

< Message edited by apache85 -- 3/11/2020 5:35:11 AM >

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RE: TSARH - 2/16/2020 11:26:46 PM

Primarchx

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Doesn't that stand for Terminal Semi-Active Homing? IE - the missile uses inertial guidance for most of the flight to target and then uses SARH for the last, terminal phase. One good example is the SM-2 missile with the Aegis combat system.

(in reply to orca)

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RE: TSARH - 2/17/2020 2:58:08 AM

Rain08

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TSARH also appears for the AIM-54 (noticed it way back in CMANO), but it means Time-shared Semi-Active Radar Homing.

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RE: TSARH - 2/17/2020 11:31:26 AM

Joelsi

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TSARH stands for Terminal Semi Active Radar Homing in the case of R-27R/ER (ALAMO-A/C).

The R-27R/ER's guidance is midcourse INS with corrections via missile datalink + terminal phase SARH.

ATM in CMO the guidance is listed as Command-Guided. This leads to some interesting behaviour.

In CMO the Su-27S can fire and guide 6x R-27R/ERs to 6 different targets while remaining radar silent.
IRL it can only shoot at a single target at a time and the radar must keep a lock on the target.
(IIRC there is a limit of 2 missiles guided for a single target but I'm not 100% sure about that)

(in reply to Rain08)

Post #: 4

RE: TSARH - 2/17/2020 11:18:10 PM

stilesw

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From: Hansville, WA, USA
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quote:

I noticed several flankers (ie Su-35 and Su-33) now have a TSARH seeker (tactical synthetic aperture radar) sensor. What is this new sensor? Thanks

No, should only be on the weapon, not the aircraft. My error, will be fixed.
-WS

_____________________________

�There is no limit to what a man can do so long as he does not care a straw who gets the credit for it.�

Charles Edward Montague, English novelist and essayist
~Disenchantment, ch. 15 (1922)

(in reply to orca)

Post #: 5

RE: TSARH - 3/8/2020 7:49:30 PM

Uzabit

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quote:

ORIGINAL: stilesw

quote:

I noticed several flankers (ie Su-35 and Su-33) now have a TSARH seeker (tactical synthetic aperture radar) sensor. What is this new sensor? Thanks

No, should only be on the weapon, not the aircraft. My error, will be fixed.
-WS

Hi Wayne,

you may also want to check the Mig-29 and its variants - they have this problem aswell, leading to AA-10A missiles being only guided by command without any SARH guidance and the planes having a tactical synthetic aperture radar. I haven't checked the other platforms that carry AA-10s aswell, but I suspect there also might be problems there.

Best regards,

Jonas

(in reply to stilesw)

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RE: TSARH - 3/8/2020 10:08:30 PM

stilesw

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quote:

you may also want to check the Mig-29 and its variants - they have this problem aswell, leading to AA-10A missiles being only guided by command without any SARH guidance and the planes having a tactical synthetic aperture radar. I haven't checked the other platforms that carry AA-10s aswell, but I suspect there also might be problems there.

Jonas,

There were indeed. I corrected all the units that use the AA-10s - removed the sensor from the aircraft involved (and there were a bunch) so now the sensor is only mounted on the weapon. Please let me know if you find I've missed one!

-Wayne

_____________________________

�There is no limit to what a man can do so long as he does not care a straw who gets the credit for it.�

Charles Edward Montague, English novelist and essayist
~Disenchantment, ch. 15 (1922)

(in reply to Uzabit)

Post #: 7

RE: TSARH - 3/8/2020 10:17:22 PM

michaelm75au

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Would this be the cause of the other TSARH issue https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4773352

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Michael

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RE: TSARH - 3/8/2020 10:45:23 PM

stilesw

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From: Hansville, WA, USA
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X

< Message edited by stilesw -- 3/9/2020 1:12:52 PM >

(in reply to michaelm75au)

Post #: 9

RE: TSARH - 3/8/2020 10:48:53 PM

stilesw

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x

< Message edited by stilesw -- 3/9/2020 1:12:01 PM >

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Post #: 10

RE: TSARH - 3/9/2020 12:16:18 AM

Uzabit

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quote:

ORIGINAL: stilesw

quote:

Would this be the cause of the other TSARH issue https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4773352

I don't think so but I can't eliminate it since I do not know how the code handles the weapon. Here is the DB3K entry for the AA-10. Perhaps you can see something there that I need to fix.

-Wayne

Hi,

i'm a bit confused about the TSARH seeker DB entry - it says Tactical Synthetic Aperture Radar, which to my knowlegde is used for mapping ground imagery. I can't tell how exactly the simulation get's its information for weapons guidance from the database and where it actually is defined. For example in DB3000 V478 there might be a useful and similar entry:

#1667 RIM-156A SM-2ER Blk IV, Guidance Type: Datalink (DL/INS) mid course plus semi-active radar homing.

Sensors/EW:
1x SARH Seeker

Properties: Terminal Illumination, (...)

It's kinda hard to test this since I'm not able to make any DB-changes. Maybe Dimitris or another developer can chime in and give hints how to best implement this kind of guidance system.

Jonas

< Message edited by Uzabit -- 3/9/2020 12:21:02 AM >

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Post #: 11

RE: TSARH - 3/11/2020 5:34:57 AM

Rory Noonan

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Fixed for DB 483

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RE: TSARH - 3/14/2020 9:03:31 AM

Carl Fantin

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Primarchx

Doesn't that stand for Terminal Semi-Active Homing? IE - the missile uses inertial guidance for most of the flight to target and then uses SARH for the last, terminal phase. One good example is the SM-2 missile with the Aegis combat system.

(in reply to Primarchx)

Post #: 13

RE: TSARH - 3/17/2020 4:13:34 PM

Scorpion86

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quote:

ORIGINAL: apache85

Fixed for DB 483

I just checked DB483 and it seems that some Flanker models still have the TSARH sensor.

I took the liberty of compiling a list of all the Flanker models (I could find) that still have that sensor:

#708 - J-11
#2155, #2156 - Su-27P
#134, #353, #603, #2370 - Su-27S
#847, #4696 - Su-27SM/SM3
#436 - Su-30
#3819, #4582 - Su-30SM
#3820 - Su-30M2
#4622 - Su-33
#275, #3723 - Su-34
#2689, #4232, #4741 - Su-35S

I hope this may be helpful...

(in reply to Rory Noonan)

Post #: 14

RE: TSARH - 3/17/2020 4:45:46 PM

stilesw

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quote:

I just checked DB483 and it seems that some Flanker models still have the TSARH sensor.
I took the liberty of compiling a list of all the Flanker models (I could find) that still have that sensor
I hope this may be helpful...

Very much so. Thanks.
Fixed in next release.
-WS

_____________________________

�There is no limit to what a man can do so long as he does not care a straw who gets the credit for it.�

Charles Edward Montague, English novelist and essayist
~Disenchantment, ch. 15 (1922)

(in reply to Scorpion86)

Post #: 15

RE: TSARH - 9/20/2020 5:55:22 PM

goldfinger35

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Just an update for this: in Live Black Gold Blitz, Iran Mig-29s at Dezful cannot be rearmed because ammo shelter has 120 SARH missiles while that Mig can use only TSARH...

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RE: TSARH - 9/21/2020 12:16:52 AM

Rory Noonan

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Thanks for the heads up. We'll check with the author and make a fix based on their recommendation

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RE: TSARH - 9/21/2020 1:51:43 AM

Rory Noonan

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From: Brooklyn, NY
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I've tried this in the release version which is currently at DB 479 and with an updated version at DB 487 and am not seeing this issue--there are 'SARH' AA-10As listed in the 479 version but that is simply because that's how they were modelled prior to ~DB 486. In both 479 and 487 I'm not able to reproduce a situation that results in aircraft not able to rearm due to having incorrect weapons in magazines.

Can you post a save in case I'm missing something?

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Post #: 18

RE: TSARH - 9/21/2020 10:18:25 AM

goldfinger35

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Attached is a scenario and a picture: 120 R-27SARH are available at magazines but Mig cannot be rearmed because it uses TSARH
Tested with 1147.10, default DB

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by goldfinger35 -- 9/21/2020 10:19:12 AM >

(in reply to Rory Noonan)

Post #: 19

RE: TSARH - 9/22/2020 1:18:46 AM

Rory Noonan

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Is this based on actually taking off, shooting a missile, landing and re-arming? I'm able to run through that sequence without issue.

Attached is a save and image showing the MiG-29's at Dezful rearming after having sortied to shoot down an aircraft. The AAMs work (i.e. they shot down a target), and the MiGs are now rearming. You can see that the weapons are not mismatched as the magazine count has dropped to 119 available in mags, 139 available including what's currently on the parked/readying aircraft.

As mentioned above the text in the air ops dialog does indeed say SARH rather than TSARH, but that is simply because that's how they were modelled prior to ~DB 486.

I've updated the scenario to DB 487 to take advantage of the improvements we've made in modelling the AA-10 since this scenario was created. I am still not able to see any issues with aircraft being unable to rearm in either DB version, however.

Attachment (1)

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RE: TSARH - 9/22/2020 6:55:38 AM

goldfinger35

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True, it works when Mig fires missiles, lands and auto-rearms, but if you to try to manually re-arm, R-27s loadout is not available in ready/arm screen.
That could be a problem if, for example, you arm Mig with FAB-250s for bombing mission and later you want to switch to R-27s.
Easy fix is to add TSARH missiles to magazines.

(in reply to Rory Noonan)

Post #: 21

RE: TSARH - 9/22/2020 8:32:20 AM

Rory Noonan

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Right, found it. The update to 487 fixes the issue.

This particular issue was caused by the aircraft on the ground having a different loadout than what is listed for them in the DB--fixing that issue was a primary focus of DB 486 and why I wanted to find out exactly what was happening here rather than simply add weapons to the magazine.

Thanks for the report! (Updated file is in the post above)

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Post #: 22